Trump signs memorandum ending 'catch and release'

[Swordsmyth]

President Donald Trump signed a memorandum on Friday ordering the end of a policy, known as "catch and release," in which illegal immigrants are released from detention while awaiting a court hearing on their status. As part of the memo, Trump asked Defense Secretary Jim Mattis to produce a list of military facilities that could be used to detain illegal immigrants.

More at: https://www.dailysabah.com/americas/...gration-policy

[Dr.3D]

FEMA camps?

[Zippyjuan]

Cool. Fill up our prisons at taxpayer expense.

Trump asked Defense Secretary Jim Mattis to produce a list of military facilities that could be used to detain illegal immigrants.

Everything seems to have a military solution with Trump.

No money in the budget for his wall? Take money from the military budget! No additional money for the border? Send in the military to guard it!

Want to lock them up? Use military facilities!

[Dr.3D]

Cool. Fill up our prisons at taxpayer expense.



Everything seems to have a military solution with Trump.

No money in the budget for his wall? Take money from the military budget! No additional money for the border? Send in the military to guard it!

Want to lock them up? Use military facilities!

I suspect, those wishing to cross the border illegally will catch wind that they won't be released and instead, be incarcerated and will then think twice about doing it.

[phill4paul]

Catch and...release.....

[Zippyjuan]

I suspect, those wishing to cross the border illegally will catch wind that they won't be released and instead, be incarcerated and will then think twice about doing it.

Border apprehensions are already at record lows. Trump's ideas are solutions looking for a problem.

[Swordsmyth]

Border apprehensions are already at record lows. Trump's ideas are solutions looking for a problem.

Record lows that are still too high.

[Zippyjuan]

Record lows that are still too high.

Let's spend another $billion to keep the next 20 people from trying to cross. Government can never be too big.

[Swordsmyth]

Let's spend another $billion to keep the next 20 people from trying to cross. Government can never be too big.

Proper enforcement won't cost that much and will save money elsewhere.

[Zippyjuan]

Proper enforcement won't cost that much and will save money elsewhere.

That is what the Bush deployments of the National Guard ended up costing. Throwing the ones they do catch in jail instead of releasing them will also cost more money. (The National Guard has no powers to stop or detain anybody they come across- only the border patrol can legally do that).

[phill4paul]

Let's spend another $billion to keep the next 20 people from trying to cross. Government can never be too big.

It's already budgeted. Troops from over seas down at the border. Done deal. No extra spending. Two National Gaurdsmen every quarter mile 365 days a year.

And are you sure it's only gonna be 20 people? That's all? If it were only 20 a year I might not be so concerned. But, I think that number might be a bit higher. Could you show me a graph?

[RonZeplin]

Get them home quickly for due process. They have none here since they're illegal aliens. Their rights reside in their home country.

Speedy deportation ensures their rights. Deport first, due process awaits in their homeland.



Gadget Dan

[phill4paul]

That is what the Bush deployments of the National Guard ended up costing. Throwing the ones they do catch in jail instead of releasing them will also cost more money. (The National Guard has no powers to stop or detain anybody they come across- only the border patrol can legally do that).

The National Guard certainly does have the power to detain enemies of the state from trespassing. It has the power to apprehend a suspect but it does not have the power to try a suspect.

[spudea]

Border apprehensions are already at record lows. Trump's ideas are solutions looking for a problem.

If its above zero its a problem. Follow and enforce the law.

[Zippyjuan]

If its above zero its a problem. Follow and enforce the law.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...undocumented-/

Yes, we are experiencing a net outflow of illegal, undocumented workers from America back to Mexico


Candidate Donald Trump pledged to build a wall on the Mexican border, and he has taken steps to make that a reality as president.

The push implies droves of outsiders are clamoring to make their way to America, but one Wisconsin congressman says a basic assumption behind that effort is wrong.

"We're experiencing a net outflow of illegal, undocumented workers from America back to Mexico," U.S. Rep. Ron Kind, D-La Crosse, said Feb. 16, 2017 on Wisconsin Public Radio. "To build a wall now would be locking them in this country."

Are there really more illegal Mexican immigrants going than coming?

Research backs up claim

There are no perfect statistics when it comes to illegal immigration — it’s inherently impossible to track accurately. But U.S. and Mexican government data analyzed by the Pew Research Center shows the immigration trend reversed in the last decade.

The estimated number of Mexicans in the United States illegally rose steadily for many years, from 2.9 million in 1995 to a peak of 6.9 million in 2007. But the number began dropping in 2008 and has fallen more since, reaching 5.8 million in 2014, the latest year for which Pew analyzed data.

If the number is falling, that means more illegal Mexican immigrants are leaving the United States than entering it. The numbers include both immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally and those who overstayed their visas.

But let's spend another $billion or so anyways.

[Zippyjuan]

The National Guard certainly does have the power to detain enemies of the state from trespassing. It has the power to apprehend a suspect but it does not have the power to try a suspect.

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/4/1719979...er-trump-legal

Both of Trump’s predecessors got state governors to mobilize National Guard troops at the border, as Vox’s Tara Golshan has explained. George W. Bush called National Guard troops to the border in May 2006, and Barack Obama mobilized 1,200 National Guard troops for border enforcement in May 2010. (In 2014, Texas Gov. Rick Perry mobilized 1,000 National Guard members to the border to help process unaccompanied children from Central America entering the US.)

National Guard troops aren’t sent to the border to literally fight off immigrants — that’s still illegal. They’re not even sent to the border to catch immigrants; only Border Patrol agents are authorized to do that. So during previous mobilizations, the National Guard has done a mix of surveillance and intelligence work to help Border Patrol agents track down immigrants, and support work to help process those immigrants once they’re apprehended.

[spudea]

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...undocumented-/


But let's spend another $billion or so anyways.

hmm how do you get even more net outflow???? If the inflow is zero.

[Zippyjuan]

hmm how do you get even more net outflow???? If the inflow is zero.

Let's say there are ten people in a room. Five enter. That is a net inflow of five. Eight then leave. That is a net outflow of three- five entered, eight left. There are three fewer than when we started (now at seven instead of ten). Not that hard.

[phill4paul]

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/4/1719979...er-trump-legal

Your VOX article is invalid. Please try again.

[spudea]

Let's say there are ten people in a room. Five enter. That is a net inflow of five. Eight then leave. That is a net outflow of three- five entered, eight left. There are three fewer than when we started (now at seven instead of ten). Not that hard.

What happens if zero enter and eight leave substitute teacher Mr. Zippyjuan? Which net outflow is greater? I'm dying to know.

[Zippyjuan]

What happens if zero enter and eight leave substitute teacher Mr. Zippyjuan? Which net outflow is greater? I'm dying to know.

If zero enter and eight leave the net outflow is eight (or to put it another way, the net inflow was minus eight).

[Zippyjuan]

Your VOX article is invalid. Please try again.

What is invalid about it?


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1HB1GS

The Trump administration was working with the governors of the four southwestern U.S. states along the border to deploy the Guard, said Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, adding that the troops would not be involved in law enforcement.

In a supporting role, possibly for aerial reconnaissance, the Guard will help U.S. Customs and Border Protection personnel with stopping illegal immigrants from entering the country, Nielsen said at a White House briefing with reporters.

In a memorandum laying out the new initiative, Trump directed Defense Secretary James Mattis to request the use of National Guard personnel to help the Department of Homeland Security in securing the southern border.

Under Republican President George W. Bush, the National Guard between 2006 and 2008 provided border-related intelligence analysis, but had no direct law enforcement role.

In 2010, President Barack Obama sent National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexican border to provide intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance support to U.S. Border Patrol agents.

[phill4paul]

What is invalid about it?


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1HB1GS

None of this proves my statement that they do have the power to apprehend and detain is not correct. You've tried two side deflections. Care for a third?

[Zippyjuan]

None of this proves my statement that they do have the power to apprehend and detain is not correct. You've tried two side deflections. Care for a third?

Perhaps you have a link showing what they are legally allowed to do?

[phill4paul]

Perhaps you have a link showing what they are legally allowed to do?

I do. I'd like you to show me the link that they don't. Or perhaps an CNN report will do?

[Kilrain]

If two burglars leave my home as one burglar enters, I would still be concerned about the one coming in. Net flow is not irrelevant, but it's a very simplistic way of looking at the issue.

Personally, I think the wall idea is kind of silly. Instead of static defense, I would go with mobile defense when it comes to border control. It would partly mean manpower, but isn't that what the military is for, protecting against invasion instead of sitting overseas. And to deter invaders, I wouldn't catch-and-release or simply detain them. Just issue them shovels. X months of digging ditches if caught illegally entering, or being in the country illegally.

[TheCount]

10 USC 275:

The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

[Cleaner44]

Finally a thread where Zippy actually expresses his/her liberal opinion instead of just posting liberal articles. Well done Zippy!

[Zippyjuan]

Finally a thread where Zippy actually expresses his/her liberal opinion instead of just posting liberal articles. Well done Zippy!

Ron Paul is a Liberal?

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

[Dr.3D]

Ron Paul is a Liberal?

Oh come on Zippy, we are all pretty sure you are not Ron Paul.