Originally Posted by oyarde
Some people are paying for that.
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Good news for americans . china will kill themselves with stupid .
Do something Danke
Sort of like their soy tariff.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Those bastards took my boner pill money
Cheaper Chinese versions of erectile dysfunction (ED) treatments Viagra and Cialis are threatening to eat into the market share of the Western-made drugs as some of the 127 million Chinese men suffering from ED turn to domestic alternatives.
China is less stable and less powerful than it appears on the surface. Its apparent stability is more of a mask concealing internal divisions. And it is afraid that its hold on power is weaker than many in the West suspect.
Remember Tiananmen Square?
Rather than showing the power and unity of the Chinese government, Beijing took a different lesson from Tiananmen Square.
As my colleague Kevin Massengill has pointed out, it revealed China’s political fragility.
We all know about the massacre. But what is not widely known is that several army officers refused orders to crush protests throughout China.
Seven retired generals, including a former defense minister, signed a letter opposing the use of force against the people of Beijing:
“Due to the exigent circumstances, we as old soldiers, make the following request: Since the People’s Army belongs to the people, it cannot stand against the people, much less kill the people, and must not be permitted to fire on the people and cause bloodshed; to prevent the situation from escalating, the Army must not enter the city.”
“I’d rather be beheaded than be a criminal in the eyes of history,” said one general commanding forces in the Beijing military district.
They were not the only one who felt that way. As Kevin has noted, armored divisions of 10,000 soldiers allowed themselves to be stopped for days by crowds of students and ordinary citizens who brought them food and water while explaining why their cause was just.
An estimated 3,500 PLA officers disobeyed orders to crush protests. Many Chinese army officers were reportedly executed. Others were demoted, or faced court martial and imprisonment.
The Tiananmen Square Massacre, Kevin says, is an example of why and proves that the position of the Chinese Communist Party is more precarious than is widely understood, even now, almost 30 years later.
Here’s something else not widely known about the protests…
The Tiananmen Square protests and massacre of 1989 did not start out as a liberty movement, although that’s how they are remembered in the West. It started out as an anti-inflation protest, and that’s how the Communists remember it.
And given China’s current economic problem, Beijing’s challenge is becoming more difficult every day. Consider what’s happening in China right now…
Growth in GDP is conventionally defined as the sum of consumer spending, investment, government spending (excluding transfer payments) and net exports.
Most large economies other than oil-producing nations get most of their growth from consumption, followed by investment, with relatively small contributions from government spending and net exports.
A typical composition would show a 65% contribution from consumption plus a 15% contribution from investment. China is nearly the opposite, with about 35% from consumption and 45% from investment.
That might be fine in a fast-growing emerging-market economy like China if the investment component were carefully designed to produce growth in the future as well as short-term jobs and inputs.
But that’s not the case.
Up to half of China’s investment is a complete waste. It does produce jobs and utilize inputs like cement, steel, copper and glass. But the finished product, whether a city, train station or sports arena, is often a white elephant that will remain unused.
What’s worse is that these white elephants are being financed with debt that can never be repaid. And no allowance has been made for the maintenance that will be needed to keep these white elephants in usable form if demand does rise in the future, which is doubtful.
Chinese growth has been reported in recent years as 6.5–10% but is actually closer to 5% or lower once an adjustment is made for the waste. The Chinese landscape is littered with “ghost cities” that have resulted from China’s wasted investment and flawed development model.
This wasted infrastructure spending is the beginning of the debt disaster that is coming soon. China is on the horns of a dilemma with no good way out.
On the one hand, China has driven growth for the past eight years with excessive credit, wasted infrastructure investment and Ponzi schemes. The Chinese leadership knows this, but they had to keep the growth machine in high gear to create jobs for millions of migrants coming from the countryside to the city and to maintain jobs for the millions more already in the cities.
The Communist Chinese leadership knew that a day of reckoning would come. The two ways to get rid of debt are deflation (which results in write-offs, bankruptcies and unemployment) or inflation (which results in theft of purchasing power, similar to a tax increase).
Both alternatives are unacceptable to the Communists because they lack the political legitimacy to endure either unemployment or inflation. Either policy would cause social unrest and unleash revolutionary potential.
Instead of these unpalatable extremes, the Chinese leadership is trying to steer a middle course with gradual financial reform and gradual limits on shadow banking. I’ve previously predicted that this gradual policy would not work because the credit situation is so extreme that even modest reform would slow the economy too fast for comfort.
That’s exactly what has happened. China has already flip-flopped and is easing up on financial reform. That works in the short run but just makes the credit bubble worse in the long run. China may soon resort to a combination of a debt cleanup and a maxi-devaluation of their currency to export the resulting deflation to the rest of the world.
It is probably the best way to avoid the social unrest that terrifies China.
When that happens, possibly later this year in response to Trump’s trade war, the effects will not be confined to China. A shock yuan maxi-devaluation will be the shot heard round the world as it was in August and December 2015 (both times, U.S. stocks fell over 10% in a matter of weeks).
More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...survival-china
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Yeah, I can't imagine why a foreign country might want to tank the economy in Iowa, of all places, just in time for 2020. Sounds completely stupid!
China didn't start the trade war per se. It was given license by the American elite to pursue such a course.
Exactly.
There is no spoon.
'A US Trade War With China Will End US Monopoly on Global Financial System’
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/09/...ar-with-china/RT News
September 22, 2017
If the Trump administration puts sanctions on China, this would hurt America more because it just forces China and Russia and other countries to cooperate, says investor and financial commentator Jim Rogers.
US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin warned on Tuesday that the US could impose economic sanctions on China if it does not implement the new sanctions regime against North Korea, saying that the restrictions could involve cutting off Beijing’s access to the US financial system.
“If China doesn’t follow these sanctions, we will put additional sanctions on them and prevent them from accessing the US and international dollar system, and that’s quite meaningful,” Mnuchin said at the Delivering Alpha Conference in New York City.
The UN Security Council unanimously approved a resolution banning North Korea’s textile exports and capping its oil imports following Pyongyang’s sixth nuclear test conducted last week.
RT spoke to famous investor, author, and financial commentator Jim Rogers to discuss global perspectives in the case of the US imposing sanctions on China.
RT: What is the likelihood that the US will go through with and actually impose economic sanctions on China if it does not implement the new sanctions regime against North Korea?
Jim Rogers: Sanctions are sanctions. They could do sanctions which are not very important or don’t do much damage. And then they will have good public relations which says they have sanctions, but it is meaningless. I would suspect if anything, that is what they will start with. If they put sanctions on China in a big way, it brings the whole world economy down. And in the end, it hurts America more than it hurts China because it just forces China and Russia and other countries closer together. Russia and China and other countries are already trying to come up with a new financial system. If America puts sanctions on them, they would have to do it that much faster and in the end America will lose its monopoly on the financial system, which will hurt America more than anybody.
RT: What do you think, is it an empty rhetoric and saber-rattling from Donald Trump because he said “those [UN] sanctions are nothing compared to what ultimately will have to happen” without specifying what he meant by that. Do you think this is just mere bluff on the part of the US, or would it really use the ‘nuclear option’?
JR: If it uses a nuclear option for sanctions, it will hurt America much more than will hurt North Korea, it will hurt America much more than it will hurt China, Russia and everybody else. It will force the rest of the world to find an alternative to the US financial system. If he does that, it is going to cause a lot of turmoil in the world financial economy and in the end it is going to hurt America more than it is going to hurt anybody else.
I would give you an example, if you look at Russian agriculture right now – America put sanctions on Russian agriculture trying to hurt Russia, but it has helped Russian agriculture. Russian agriculture is booming now. In the end, America has hurt itself more than it has hurt anybody else.
There's a world of opportunities for investors in Russia's agriculture commodities market with farming in the country flourishing under international sanctions.
RT: If that happens, what would the consequences be for the global economy? Could this end up becoming a global economic crisis?
JR: We are probably going to have a global economic problem, maybe even crisis, in the next couple of years. This may be one of the things that start it. There is always something which starts a crisis. If America does something like this, this could be the thing that did it. In 1929, it started when America started a huge trade war with the rest of the world and the economists said, “please, this is a mistake,” but America did that anyway. And then we had a great collapse and The Great Depression of the 1930s.
RT: Washington runs a $350 billion annual trade deficit with Beijing. China also holds more than $1 trillion in US debt. How could the US actually threaten China in such circumstances?
JR: Mr. Trump has been saying for over a year, two years, that he was going to start a trade war with China. He was going to put very high tariffs on Chinese goods. In his mind, he wants to do it, he is ready to do it. Some of his advisors are very much in favor of a trade war. It may very well happen. If it happens, it is going to be very bad for the world and it is going to be worse for America than for other people.
RT: How significant is Chinese trade with North Korea?
JR: For North Korea, it is extremely important – that is really the only trade partner. They don’t trade with many people except China. But it is not very important for China. China has got gigantic trade all over the world and North Korea is a very small economy.
RT: What impact will this have on North Korea itself? From an economic perspective, would they be able to keep up their military development under harsh sanctions regime?
JR: If China actually cuts off their oil or something, no, then North Korea cannot do much of anything. North Korea would have troubles surviving if they do something like that. It depends on the sanctions, so far China has not done anything which would destroy North Korea. But they could destroy North Korea if they cut off all trade.
Tatiana Klimova, RT
There is no spoon.
+++ post
Just so everyone knows, this interview was done by Russia Today (RT) and was just posted on Lewrockwell. I am going to try and find the link to the original article and post it here.
Just saying
Thanks!
I go to Rockwell's site to find current timely articles- saves me a lot of time. And Lew has woken up a lot on his Trump POV.
There is no spoon.
Talk about closing the barn door after the cows have escaped. Sorry, this is a time when "better late than never" doesn't apply. The Trump con was about the easiest con by the establishment to detect. If someone at the point in time was not able to call this before the election, then it is safe to say that said person lacks the ability to detect new
and more sophisticated political cons in the future.
I was never taken in by the Trump Con.
What I am saying is that there are decent articles being posted on the site that are showing what's really going on. Just a convenient short cut for me.
There is no spoon.
Not really- Trumps con was a long con, he had been building up political connections and buying politicians and digging up dirt on news anchors. I don't think that there is anyone in recent history that put in as much legwork as he did politically except maybe Clinton. Thats why its funny that Rand said in the first debate that they were hedging their bets.
This election spent so much political capital that they have almost destroyed both of their fake political parties. All of that to stop Ron and Rand Paul. To this day the biggest names in politcs, the so called leaders of the political parties, the Obama, the Mccain, the Mitt Romney, the Clinton, the Trump, the Bush- they are all hated and despised so much so because of all the political fallout.
Whether or not we understand what comes next, we have to understand that the establishment had to empty their entire clip to win- and now they will use a new cold war and an invasion of barbarians as a political excuse to grab more power, unless we can rise up to the occasion and oppose the authoritarians who won the last few elections by stealing them from us.
I wasn't talking about YOU in particular. Just talking about Lew Rockwell the man, the former editor of Ron Paul; newsletter and the current editor in chief of Lewrockwell.com. His credit took a big hit in my book when he fell hook, line and sinker for the Trump con. The rate he is going(age wise), he would more likely for the upcoming cons by TPTB.
And that is why I wouldn't go there for anything or share their links(albeit a link they shared via their website). I will find the original source and post it. Just sayin
Understand- it's cool.
There is no spoon.
You gotta wonder why he did it I always did. I was never a big Lew Rockwell fan, but I always had a little respect for him because of his work with Ron Paul until the last election. I don't really think he was bought with money but that doesn't mean that he wasn't persuaded. I just think back to the election and how when Trump got attacked by news anchors the news anchors got destroyed. Trump was able to do what normal political candidates couldn't do, he had a super power, he was kryptonite to the MSM. He got the opposite treatment of Ron Paul during republican primaries. He was teflon don!
Some people say that Obama was groomed right out of college to be president. I think it is very possible that it happened that way. So if you believe that, why do you think they only groomed Trump and Obama? Maybe they have a dozen more people to spring up on us. More people for people like Lew Rockwell and Tom Woods to fall for. These people think ahead, way ahead of people in the liberty movement and I have no doubt that they have something prepared for life under Trump. My guess is just a blue(dem) wave of people in the likes of Sanders.
My disgust is with the idea that cuddling these people who refuse to wake up will turn our situation around. I am not really sure if there is a path to "victory" but what I know in my heart is that this path will lead to nowhere.
With all Trump's tax increases, the net effect is that his total tax cut is now pretty small. If not for these tax hikes, it would have been a significant cut.
The soy tariff is poorly chosen, it will do more harm to them than us and they will end up buying almost as much of our soy as they do now.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
That means they started it with the permission of traitors in our society.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Its not poorly chosen and it not going to be without some pain from both sides. This move will only open up the market for some other soy producer(real winner) and the US and China will take some loss.
I don't know why you keep insisting that the US will come out on top and China will lose. Maybe at the end of the day one side or both develops their respective tariffed industry to the point where they can produce enough at the same price point to cover their needs
China’s Running Out of U.S. Imports to Target
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-06/china-s-running-out-of-u-s-imports-to-target
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
It's kinda funny, but with all the doom and gloom by some on these forums, these tariffs haven't effected me at all. I've yet to see massive layoffs and any industry decline in companies that already weren't running themselves into the ground. The sun came up today, and I imagine it will tomorrow.
Many here actually would prefer to see China destroy the US, they look for any opportunity to believe it will happen.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Well, I mean, maybe its because the tariffs haven't been implemented? it is only a proposal right now. Neither side has actually implemented the tariffs. Talk about strawmaning the opposition. Nobody is saying the sky would fall if Trump implemented the proposed sanctions with China. It would just makes a few things more expensive. Its just like the way some people complain when liberal raise the minimum wage by a few dollars. Its not like the sky would fall and the sun wouldn't rise when poor people are given more money.
Its just that a lot of people will suffer(a little) because of it
U.S. aluminum prices are dropping, despite a 10% tariff imposed by President Donald Trump on the metal in early March intended to protect U.S. companies and allow for the creation of new manufacturing plants, one of his main promises during the 2016 presidential election.
The president touted the falling aluminum costs — down 4% from when the White House first announced the tariffs — on Twitter early Friday morning.
Despite the Aluminum Tariffs, Aluminum prices are DOWN 4%. People are surprised, I’m not! Lots of money coming into U.S. coffers and Jobs, Jobs, Jobs!“Despite the Aluminum Tariffs, Aluminum prices are DOWN 4%. People are surprised, I’m not!” he wrote. “Lots of money coming into U.S. coffers and Jobs, Jobs, Jobs!”
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 6, 2018
More at: https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...-after-tariffs
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Solar panels were on sale at Harbor Freight when I stopped in. Made in China. MAGA.
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