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Thread: The Passing of the Libertarian Moment?

  1. #61
    Some liberty people have won elections. It's kind of comical really how so many seem to think Ron Paul's congressional electorate must have been libertarian, or Trump was elected by tens of millions of members of the Alt Right. There is so much more to winning an election than principles. Only a handful of voters care about principles enough to research every race and vote on them, but a high percentage of voters have voted for a principled candidate at some time. A lot of the same people who voted for Rand for Senate also like John Bolton. A lot of Rubio supporters would vote for a local liberty candidate if he knocked on their door and asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe






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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Some liberty people have won elections. It's kind of comical really how so many seem to think Ron Paul's congressional electorate must have been libertarian, or Trump was elected by tens of millions of members of the Alt Right. There is so much more to winning an election than principles. Only a handful of voters care about principles enough to research every race and vote on them, but a high percentage of voters have voted for a principled candidate at some time. A lot of the same people who voted for Rand for Senate also like John Bolton. A lot of Rubio supporters would vote for a local liberty candidate if he knocked on their door and asked.
    Most voters are politically schizophrenic, the candidate's job is to convince them to vote for him in support of the beliefs they hold that align with his, it takes a combination of logical and emotional appeals.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #63
    The only way to save this country would be to have another revolution and overthrow the government. That's what the Founders would be doing right now if they were still alive. Jefferson even said that the government should be overthrown every 18-20 years.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    The only way to save this country would be to have another revolution and overthrow the government. That's what the Founders would be doing right now if they were still alive. Jefferson even said that the government should be overthrown every 18-20 years.
    And the founders were lead and organized by men of power and wealth, it will take a lot more work for us to organize a successful revolution (either political or the classic kind) because we have yet to benefit from those with power and wealth joining our cause.

    Gaining power and wealth and converting the wealthy and powerful are vital.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    Cry me a river. More Americans than ever believe in a Deep State (former crack pottery), have lost faith in Interventionism (even as it’s imposed against their will) and despise the MSM (the same one we watched slander a living Thomas Jefferson - Dr. Paul). Face facts, the Liberty Movement was never going to take over Mordor and run it “properly”. The ring must be destroyed. One step at a time Samwise.
    You'd almost think Trump was a secret libertarian, with the progress that has been made in such a short time in building suspicion of and hostility to centralized organs of power.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    You'd almost think Trump was a secret libertarian, with the progress that has been made in such a short time in building suspicion of and hostility to centralized organs of power.
    What kind of Trumpcuck gives Trump credit for doing things he clearly did not do, but merely recognized and capitalized upon the already existent trend?

    That's not the kind if thing a libertarian says. That' the kind of thing the fakenews media says to discredit all the hard work libertarians did.

    Not even Zippy works that hard at changing history.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 04-06-2018 at 06:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ron is wrong...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Amash is wrong...

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    That's certainly true, but I don't know that it much brightens the gloomy picture I painted.

    To succeed, we need people to do just what you're saying they don't do (care about the liberty of others).
    People would care about the liberty of others if they realized (were educated to understand) that your own liberty fundamentally hinges on others understanding and exercising theirs. Liberty is a state of respect, peace, and civilization (cooperation). When Liberty reigns we respect the ability of others to live their own way without harming those around them. When people attempt to socially engineer their neighbors they are declaring war on their fellow man. When they use politicians to do their social engineering we call that (politics) war by other means.

    Respect, Liberty, Peace & Civilization or Hostility, Oppression, War, & Barbarism. Those are our choices. There is no middle ground.
    Last edited by Gumba of Liberty; 04-06-2018 at 06:55 PM.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    People would care about the liberty of others if they realized (were educated to understand) that your own liberty fundamentally hinges on others understanding and exercising theirs. Liberty is a state of respect and peace. When Liberty reigns we respect the ability of others to live their own way without harming those around them. When people attempt to socially engineer their neighbors they are declaring war on their fellow man. When they use politicians to do their social engineering we call that (politics) war by other means.

    Respect, Liberty, & Peace or Hostility, Oppression, & War. Those are our choices. There is no middle ground.
    And their divide and conquer tactics are designed to encourage Americans to steal liberties from each other. Time to listen to wiser heads--if we can get their voices heard above the MSM noise:

    You can only get as much liberty as you give.--Will Rogers
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ron is wrong...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Amash is wrong...

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I'm not familiar with Williamson but now I'm curious how you and Collins can have such different views of the man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Because he knows nothing about him other than he made fun of a significant swath of Ron Paul supporters. That is the only explanation can think of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Kevin Williamson is the single best liberty writer and has been my favorite writer for any publication for at least the last five years or so.

    This is all you need to know:





    Sep 2011
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  12. #70
    This seems like a defeatist thread.

    Stop waiting on politicians to come flying in on golden chariots to save the day. You should be using people like Ron and Rand as inspirations, not saviors.

    If you think we are in trouble right now, then what are you waiting for? Get to work!

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Champuckett View Post
    This seems like a defeatist thread.

    Stop waiting on politicians to come flying in on golden chariots to save the day. You should be using people like Ron and Rand as inspirations, not saviors.

    If you think we are in trouble right now, then what are you waiting for? Get to work!
    +1
    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson

    "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds" - Sam Adams

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I know that's a common and easy sentiment to believe, but I don't buy it. Most people want maximum liberty for themselves - just not for the other guy.

    I think the real issue is that we have been discussing things on the State's terms. Nearly EVERY politician talks about what government can do FOR you. Ron Paul was one of the few that talked about what government was doing TO you. Libertarianism has absolutely zero chance to succeed in winning the first argument - but it does surprisingly well when the focus is on the latter. It just never gets there because people like to think government can give them goodies.

    Freedom is popular, but unfortunately, most people only care about their own liberty. Even in this forum, people don't care about violating the liberty of others if it helps them.
    Saying most people like freedom because they don’t want theirs to be abridged is like saying most people are in favor of starvation because they don’t want to be a meal. Until people value everyone else’s liberty, they are functionally anti-liberty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    People would care about the liberty of others if they realized (were educated to understand) that your own liberty fundamentally hinges on others understanding and exercising theirs. Liberty is a state of respect, peace, and civilization (cooperation). When Liberty reigns we respect the ability of others to live their own way without harming those around them. When people attempt to socially engineer their neighbors they are declaring war on their fellow man. When they use politicians to do their social engineering we call that (politics) war by other means.

    Respect, Liberty, Peace & Civilization or Hostility, Oppression, War, & Barbarism. Those are our choices. There is no middle ground.
    This.
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Champuckett View Post
    This seems like a defeatist thread.

    Stop waiting on politicians to come flying in on golden chariots to save the day. You should be using people like Ron and Rand as inspirations, not saviors.

    If you think we are in trouble right now, then what are you waiting for? Get to work!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    This.
    If only we had even this much consensus in actual action rather than just consensus that there exists a need to act.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    This is all you need to know:





    Sep 2011
    Oh hell, this guy speaks for NatRev too? Look, John Bolton is also featured.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    This is all you need to know:





    Sep 2011
    No it isn't. That was the first thing that came to mind and is actually the specific thing I linked to. Read my post again.

    Your post proves the point Williamson was making. Ron Paul is in the same category as Ayn Rand and Murray Rothbard. People treat them as religious figures that are somehow immune to even mild legitimate criticism. Even around the time that article was published Williamson still was pretty complimentary to Ron Paul, especially given the publication he worked for. As an example, https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-d-williamson/

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The LP is controlled opposition, there is the Constitution party but the leftarians wouldn't like it.
    Our options are 1: to reform either the Reps or the LP or 2: go with the Constitution Party and ditch the leftarians or 3: start a new party.
    Option #3.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    Cry me a river. More Americans than ever believe in a Deep State (former crack pottery), have lost faith in Interventionism (even as it’s imposed against their will) and despise the MSM (the same one we watched slander a living Thomas Jefferson - Dr. Paul). Face facts, the Liberty Movement was never going to take over Mordor and run it “properly”. The ring must be destroyed. One step at a time Samwise.
    +rep
    Now, how to actually proceed?
    $$$$$$$$$$


    Negativity is ignorance, and ignorance is your own personal tyranny. It tells you how to act, how to talk, how to think, and what to feel. You will never see a world without tyrants until you release your own. ~Honored to be Among You

    How does Ron stay so calm?

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    We are here because we believe that Libertarian Principles are better than what we have today. Is it not on us to make being a Libertarian popular?
    Almost valid but..
    No
    It is "On Us" to make money, and opportunities for others from creating more freedom. We need a clear financial incentive for the movement to go forward, or we can continue to always fall short of success.
    $$$$$$$$$$


    Negativity is ignorance, and ignorance is your own personal tyranny. It tells you how to act, how to talk, how to think, and what to feel. You will never see a world without tyrants until you release your own. ~Honored to be Among You

    How does Ron stay so calm?

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Vidual View Post
    +rep
    Now, how to actually proceed?
    Stop paying taxes?

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Vidual View Post
    Almost valid but..
    No
    It is "On Us" to make money, and opportunities for others from creating more freedom. We need a clear financial incentive for the movement to go forward, or we can continue to always fall short of success.
    Agreed. Having money helps to make things popular.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    If only we had even this much consensus in actual action rather than just consensus that there exists a need to act.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Vidual View Post
    +rep
    Now, how to actually proceed?
    If the forces we are fighting are global then we must fight local.

    We build local community networks. We fly (and/or create) our county/town flags. We reach out to people in our communities that enable us to live free. Farmers, ranchers, small business owners, skilled instructors, veterans (think Oath Keepers - most are on our side), local law enforcement (they can either be our worst enemies or our greatest allies) etc.

    I met these guys last month and will be working with them in the Greater NJ, PA, & NY area when they launch on July 4th: https://www.sonsoflibertyso.com/memberships

    Decentralized community networks built by patriotic Americans designed to educate & increase skill and sustainability will build independence and confidence in the people. As they watch Mordor descend into chaos, when the next financial crisis hits, they will not fear their own freedom and will become natural allies as free men even if they are not 100% ideologically pure. It is vital to coordinate before the next crisis erupts. The time is now. Get moving.
    Last edited by Gumba of Liberty; 04-10-2018 at 07:33 PM.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    The only way to save this country would be to have another revolution and overthrow the government.
    I see no even remotely realistic narrative where this happens and turns out well. No one has ever explained to me how this violent revolution thing could possibly happen. So it's not really possible to take it seriously.

    If this is really your plan, break it down for us, man.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    I see no even remotely realistic narrative where this happens and turns out well. No one has ever explained to me how this violent revolution thing could possibly happen. So it's not really possible to take it seriously.

    If this is really your plan, break it down for us, man.
    Special forces veterans could theoretically pull it off. But you need a leader in the shadows. The clandestine manner in which the the elites act, the resistance must emulate.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Special forces veterans could theoretically pull it off. But you need a leader in the shadows. The clandestine manner in which the the elites act, the resistance must emulate.
    So, you are proposing a coup, basically?

    I mean, I think everyone understands coups can and do happen, they're totally feasible.

    But in a coup, the peasants are, like, not involved.

    If your plan is to have a coup, I am all for it. Carry on. I will passively root for you Good Deep State guys to take out the Bad Deep State guys. It's not a revolution, and it's not exactly a plan you would have to (nor want to) be discussing on RPF, but it's a doable plan.

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