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Thread: An army of illegal aliens is marching on America

  1. #691

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    Two weeks ago, President Trump announced plans to "deploy U.S. troops" to the southern border to guard against illegal crossings into the country "until we have a wall," signing an executive order on Wednesday directing the National Guard to deploy troops to "assist the border patrol."
    While many states moved ahead with the plan immediately, one state did not... And AP now reports that two U.S. officials say:
    California has rejected the federal government's initial plans to send the state's National Guard troops to the border.
    And the reason for their rejection of Trump's orders...
    Because the work is considered too closely tied to immigration enforcement.
    As a reminder, California Gov. Jerry Brown elicited rare and effusive praise from President Donald Trump when he pledged last 400 troops to border mission last week....
    California Governor Jerry Brown is doing the right thing and sending the National Guard to the Border. Thank you Jerry, good move for the safety of our Country!
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 12, 2018
    But the Democratic leader conditioned his support on troops having nothing to do with immigration enforcement, and has now, according to AP, backed out.


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...outhern-border
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #692

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    If one is going to put any credence in polling data at all
    And I don't. FYF

    , this is demonstrably untrue.

    Across the board, first generation immigrants favor, in vast majorities, prohibitions, limitations and restrictions on all manner of freedom, while at the same time support much more intrusive and activist government.
    You're still going to have to demonstrate demonstrably how this is different from White Republicans™ and those they elect.

    How, considering the events of the past year, do you still have faith that giving all the branches of federal, state and local government to copsucker White Republicans™ will result in less war, less government spending, etc.?

    If you're still concerned about voting, then accept the demonstrable conclusion (supported in the Luntz-y Pew data FWIW) that first generation naturalized immigrants will vote for whomever they think is for them. That's to say nothing of blacks and women. Those following the Rand/Ron Paul template of acceptance, outreach and just plain ole' love for fellow man have a chance. Levin-bots will win Iowa, but they will dig the hole ever deeper for the Republican party's future.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  4. #693

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    Levin-bots will win Iowa, but they will dig the hole ever deeper for the Republican party's future.
    Wait, are we caring about that? Are we supposed to care about that now? Is that a thing? Hard to keep up with you, Railroad. Fill us in.

    And if we Care, does it Matter?

  5. #694

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    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    Are we supposed to care about that now?
    I don't recommend it, unless you enjoy stomach ulcers. Just helpful, free advice for those who do care.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  6. #695

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    I don't recommend it, unless you enjoy stomach ulcers. Just helpful, free advice for those who do care.
    So do you not care about the Republican Party's future? I just want to be clear. Like I say, hard for us to keep hold of your rhetorical coattails. We mere mortals have real struggles with things you find easy, like being able to split the difference between "I don't care" and "It doesn't matter." I mean, it's a profoundly meaningful and obvious difference to you, with your phat dictionary and out-sized brain, hot rodded for crazy-sick hair-splitting, but for us, we're all like: "Huh? October?"

    So slow down your train for us, Railroad. Do you or do you not care about the Republican Party's future?

  7. #696

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    And I don't. FYF
    Fair enough, but I cannot make my point if everything I use to back it up is dismissed out of hand.

    What would be a credible source to you, to prove my point; that first generation immigrants do not want freedom and that they do want more intrusive, invasive and expansive government?

    You're still going to have to demonstrate demonstrably how this is different from White Republicans™ and those they elect.

    How, considering the events of the past year, do you still have faith that giving all the branches of federal, state and local government to copsucker White Republicans™ will result in less war, less government spending, etc.?
    The FedGov is out of control, and is no longer controlled in any meaningful way by the political process. The bureaucracy runs the show, the "deep state" if you will.

    I can't speak of all the states and localities, but I know in my home state of NH, there is vast, discernible, quantifiable, very real difference in the manner, power and scope of government under republicans than under democrats.

    The GOP has all levels of government from the Governor to the state house.

    There have been real, significant and numerous rollbacks of government power in the last two years because of it.

    I, quite frankly, look for it all to be destroyed in the fall, as the Bolsheviks sweep into power across the country, but it was nice while it lasted.

    If you're still concerned about voting, then accept the demonstrable conclusion (supported in the Luntz-y Pew data FWIW) that first generation naturalized immigrants will vote for whomever they think is for them. That's to say nothing of blacks and women. Those following the Rand/Ron Paul template of acceptance, outreach and just plain ole' love for fellow man have a chance. Levin-bots will win Iowa, but they will dig the hole ever deeper for the Republican party's future.
    I'm sure they will.

    Being "for them" means supporting larger government that "does more".

    That is what they want. That is what being "for them" means.

    I'm all for outreach, I'm all for trying to bring the message of liberty to as many people as possible.

    But there is just no way to reconcile wanting government to be more active, provide more handouts, tax more and regulate more with the idea of limited government and personal liberty and responsibility.

    None.

  8. #697

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Being "for them" means supporting larger government that "does more".

    That is what they want. That is what being "for them" means.
    Allow an opening to at least make a slight alteration to that brain-worm.

    I hate the Pew study tit-for-tat. But since people seem to trust Pew more than Rand and Ron, I'll copy and paste from an old post -

    In that study, Pew pretty much asked "Do you want free stuff?" Who wouldn't say yes? Especially if they're in poverty? I know - 3 libertarians and 2 paleo-cons.

    When they asked "Do you want free stuff if you have to pay for it with taxes?" the percentages dropped precipitously. In fact, the Hispanic numbers interestingly dropped more precipitously than when whites were asked. In other words (if you buy stupid poll data), the whites didn't mind paying more taxes.

    Pew also found that Hispanics have been shown to believe in the efficacy of hard work in much higher percentages than the general populace. Hispanics self-identify as libertarian pretty much identically with whites (11% & 12% respectively.)

    You have to face the fact that 95.54% of general election voters explicitly voted for larger government in 2016. Even if 40 million new beaners trot across the border in the next year and we instantly hand them voter registration cards, it's not going to make any difference whatsoever to your freedom.

    Actually maybe it will. In 2016 twice the percentage of Hispanics as whites polled supported the Libertarian Party ticket. Say what you want about Johnson. He was the only one saying both the warfare and welfare states should be shrunk. Two important reasons Johnson polled (!) to steal more votes from Clinton than trump were A) because minorities knew he didn't hate them. and B) White Republicans weren't going to vote for anybody who demonstrably liked brown people and transexuals.
    Last edited by undergroundrr; 04-17-2018 at 11:59 AM. Reason: "number" to "percentage"
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  9. #698

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    You have to face the fact that 95.54% of general election voters explicitly voted for larger government in 2016. Even if 40 million new beaners trot across the border in the next year and we instantly hand them voter registration cards, it's not going to make any difference whatsoever to your freedom.
    How do you eat an elephant?

    One bite at a time.

    The immigration issue is but one part of much larger whole.

    So if we're going to to do anything constructive about the situation, it will have to be taken one step at a time.

    Halt all immigration, from anywhere, by any means, and then let's get our house in order.

    Or throw up our collective hands, accept that 96% and devolve into total tyranny and economic collapse.

  10. #699

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    In 2016 twice the number of Hispanics as whites polled supported the Libertarian Party ticket.
    ???

    The racial and ethnic makeup of the candidates’ coalitions is also quite different. The overwhelming majority of Trump (87%) and Johnson supporters (79%) are white. By contrast, while a majority of Clinton backers are also white (58%), about a quarter of her supporters are black (24%) and one-in-ten (10%) are Hispanic.

    http://www.people-press.org/2016/08/...n-preferences/

  11. #700

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    ???
    Excuse me, percentage. Corrected.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  12. #701

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    Allow an opening to at least make a slight alteration to that brain-worm.

    I hate the Pew study tit-for-tat. But since people seem to trust Pew more than Rand and Ron, I'll copy and paste from an old post -

    In that study, Pew pretty much asked "Do you want free stuff?" Who wouldn't say yes? Especially if they're in poverty? I know - 3 libertarians and 2 paleo-cons.

    When they asked "Do you want free stuff if you have to pay for it with taxes?" the percentages dropped precipitously. In fact, the Hispanic numbers interestingly dropped more precipitously than when whites were asked. In other words (if you buy stupid poll data), the whites didn't mind paying more taxes.
    The problem is that they intend to tax the rich and get free stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    Pew also found that Hispanics have been shown to believe in the efficacy of hard work in much higher percentages than the general populace. Hispanics self-identify as libertarian pretty much identically with whites (11% & 12% respectively.)

    You have to face the fact that 95.54% of general election voters explicitly voted for larger government in 2016. Even if 40 million new beaners trot across the border in the next year and we instantly hand them voter registration cards, it's not going to make any difference whatsoever to your freedom.
    Yes it will, they will vote for the greater evil and then be foot soldiers for it when civil war breaks out.

    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    Actually maybe it will. In 2016 twice the percentage of Hispanics as whites polled supported the Libertarian Party ticket. Say what you want about Johnson. He was the only one saying both the warfare and welfare states should be shrunk. Two important reasons Johnson polled (!) to steal more votes from Clinton than trump were A) because minorities knew he didn't hate them. and B) White Republicans weren't going to vote for anybody who demonstrably liked brown people and transexuals.
    The LP's big issues were weed and open borders, it doesn't surprise me at all that a greater percent of Hispanics voted for them, meanwhile what really mattered is the much greater percentage that voted Demoncrat.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #702

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    When they asked "Do you want free stuff if you have to pay for it with taxes?" the percentages dropped precipitously. In fact, the Hispanic numbers interestingly dropped more precipitously than when whites were asked. In other words (if you buy stupid poll data), the whites didn't mind paying more taxes.
    Once again you have skipped to the lou instead of carefully following step-by-step logic, though your error here is trickier and less obvious than the last one, I'll give you that.

    You seem to be intent on smearing certain groups based upon the color of their skin. Hmm. Guess your emotions make your brain's logic function skip off so you can interpret things according to your prejudice. That's OK. Prejudice is biologically natural and inevitable.

    Anyway, the much simpler explanation is that some individuals have more critical thinking skills and also have had certain cultural concepts ingrained into them than other individuals. Such as common sense, such as TANSTAAFL, such as Western Imperialist mathematics. Other individuals have other beautiful, neuro-diverse perspectives and likely have not been exposed to the proper Schoolhouse Rock episode to teach them that the government gets money via taxes. The aforementioned non-neuro-diverse already know "free stuff" doesn't come from fairies, but is paid for, and thus they change their answer not at all, not in the least, when explicitly but redundantly reminded of this painfully obvious fact.



    I mean, would you change your answer? Who would?

    Also, do you care about the future of the Republican Party?

  14. #703

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    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    I mean, would you change your answer? Who would?
    OK, in fairness, "if you have to pay for it with taxes?" is a very personal phrasing and so a person could take it as I, personally, am now going to have to pay some taxes for it, whereas in the previous question, in today's world they very well may not actually have to pay any taxes for it if they were a low-income or other entitled person. So, the bias would be that the low-income and otherwise-entitled would be expected to change their answer more often than net taxpayers and especially the wealthy, who know perfectly well they, personally, are the ones who are taxed, for everything.
    Last edited by H_H; 04-17-2018 at 03:16 PM.

  15. #704

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    https://www.dailywire.com/news/29690...es-joseph-curl

    Caravan Of Refugees Arrives At U.S.-Mexico Border; Refugees Ask For Asylum
    by Joseph Curl - April 20, 2018

    Remember that caravan that the mainstream media — and Mexican officials — said was no longer heading to the U.S.-Mexico border?

    Yeah, they arrived at the border.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #705

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I just read that they will be asking for asylum and not trying to sneak across- and there are maybe 600 or less.
    There is no spoon.

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