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Thread: Rand Paul Calls for Article V Convention

  1. #1

    Rand Paul Calls for Article V Convention

    Senator Paul stated, “Years of abuse and overreach by the judicial, legislative and executive branches of the federal government have obliterated the enumerated powers established by our founders and made a mockery of the 10th Amendment rights granted to the states and the people.

    "That’s why I support the Convention of States Project to restore the original constitutional limits on federal power by calling a limited convention to propose amendments to rein in our out-of-control federal government.”
    https://conventionofstates.com/news/...tion-of-states

    An interesting development. I'd be interested to see his full remarks. I'm having trouble confirming it anywhere else--not that I find that surprising.

    The fear in regards to a constitutional convention is that what comes out might be a communist manifesto. Clearly what remarks we do see here lean less toward changing the Constitution we have, and more toward giving it some teeth. Anyone up for jailing members of Congress who try to create federal laws that usurp powers which are not constitutionally delineated, and are therefore reserved to the states?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-24-2018 at 04:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.



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  3. #2
    Question #1 at any convention will have to be:

    "Do you agree or accept that the purpose of free speech is to enable unity adequate to effectively alter or abolish?"

    This will weed out any covert agents and those influenced by them. We only want sincere americans involved.

  4. #3
    LOL

    OK, Uncle Emmanuel.

    Seriously, I've seen Rand Paul express cautious support for amendment conventions limited to issues like term limits and balanced budget amendments. But this is the first I've heard of him coming out in direct support of something like the COS. Did this cromnibus mess get to him?

    This is a seriously dangerous thing to unleash. Libertarians would have to get involved in a big way to prevent corporate moles from making a monster of it.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-24-2018 at 04:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    LOL

    OK, Uncle Emmanuel.
    I thought that was Charlie Brown, or some such?

    As to the OP, to hell with it, let's do it! The Constitution is ignored and altered to the point it is a worthless piece of paper. If we are to have a Communist manifesto then let theme put it in writing so I can commence to revolutioning. I ain't getting any younger.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 03-24-2018 at 04:53 PM.

  6. #5
    You're probably right. Or Snoopy. I've slept since then.

    Yeah, I agree. The prospect of the conventions trying to install a new and completely foreign constitution is daunting. But if the one we have is nothing but toilet paper, have we got anything left to lose?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I thought that was Charlie Brown, or some such?

    As to the OP, to hell with it, let's do it! The Constitution is ignored and altered to the point it is a worthless piece of paper. If we are to have a Communist manifesto then let theme put it in writing so I can commence to revolutioning. I ain't getting any younger.
    It's Christopher A. Brown reference. This thread actually prompted me to email him from contact info on his website and ask why he's been gone 3 years. http://algoxy.com/

    I'll let you guys know if he responds. Kind of miss him.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    It's Christopher A. Brown reference. This thread actually prompted me to email him from contact info on his website and ask why he's been gone 3 years. http://algoxy.com/

    I'll let you guys know if he responds. Kind of miss him.
    Ah, that's right. I associate him with the old song. "He's a clown, that Charlie Brown."

  9. #8
    As to OP.

    "We", meaning people who are actually interested in the ideas of liberty, need to rethink our focus on ALL politics. The culture is against us. If we do anything in the political realm it should be along the lines of lobbying (that is all CFL is really doing now even though that's not the stated focus).

    Better to spend resources engaging current powers than trying to install our own. We are too small, too broke, and thus will not have significant results that grows our share of the public attention. Need to think outside the box.

    This consitutional convention thing falls into same category.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    This consitutional convention thing falls into same category.
    It scares me, because the stakes are so high. But it's certainly outside the box. And it plays to our strengths. We'd have to shove our noses in the door, be persuasive in a closed group, make sense to a captive audience, hold fast to that which is good and be stubborn as hell about making people understand why it is good. And those are things we've proven we can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    As to OP.

    "We", meaning people who are actually interested in the ideas of liberty, need to rethink our focus on ALL politics. The culture is against us. If we do anything in the political realm it should be along the lines of lobbying (that is all CFL is really doing now even though that's not the stated focus).

    Better to spend resources engaging current powers than trying to install our own. We are too small, too broke, and thus will not have significant results that grows our share of the public attention. Need to think outside the box.

    This consitutional convention thing falls into same category.
    As you mentioned the current culture is against us. The resources of those that create current culture are far more vast and connected than any group that believes in the liberty and freedom of the individual. So good luck with that. I've come to believe thinking outside the box comes down to merely expand my networking within my local area. Anyone outside of 10 miles isn't worth the time excepting in teaching them to do the same.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It scares me, because the stakes are so high. But it's certainly outside the box. And it plays to our strengths. We'd have to shove our noses in the door, be persuasive in a closed group, make sense to a captive audience, hold fast to that which is good and be stubborn as hell about making people understand why it is good. And those are things we've proven we can do.
    Well, it's not a new concept. This is precisely what Christopher A. Brown was proposing, hence the reference.

    I just see little unity if we actually got to that point. I fear it would be delayed and delayed, until support waned, then another huge let down.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I thought that was Charlie Brown, or some such?

    As to the OP, to hell with it, let's do it! The Constitution is ignored and altered to the point it is a worthless piece of paper. If we are to have a Communist manifesto then let theme put it in writing so I can commence to revolutioning. I ain't getting any younger.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Well, it's not a new concept. This is precisely what Christopher A. Brown was proposing, hence the reference.

    I just see little unity if we actually got to that point. I fear it would be delayed and delayed, until support waned, then another huge let down.
    That's certainly possible. But truth be known, even if all we do is delay and make a huge letdown out of a coordinated effort to stick us with a communist constitution, that would be a huge contribution on our part.

    That said, it wouldn't take much networking on our part to make the various state conventions look similar, and with a common enemy in the various state conventions we could definitely come up with more unity than we usually manage in the absence of a common enemy.

    All it would take is a common goal--something like, don't change the basic tenets of the Constitution, just give it teeth! A lot to expect of a herd of cats? Maybe. But that would make it very easy to tell friend from enemy, and just doing that would be a glorious achievement.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  16. #14
    I'm with Phil on this, yea, a CC is fraught with danger, but really, at this point what do we have to lose?

    Let get on with it already, cause' what we're doing ain't working.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    It's Christopher A. Brown reference. This thread actually prompted me to email him from contact info on his website and ask why he's been gone 3 years. http://algoxy.com/

    I'll let you guys know if he responds. Kind of miss him.
    $#@!ing masochist.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    $#@!ing masochist.
    Well, it's been 3 years, maybe he's mellowed out.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Well, it's been 3 years, maybe he's mellowed out.
    Ooooooooooookay.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I'm with Phil on this, yea, a CC is fraught with danger, but really, at this point what do we have to lose?

    Let get on with it already, cause' what we're doing ain't working.
    Yes. This.

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    $#@!ing masochist.
    I must spread some around...
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I'm with Phil on this, yea, a CC is fraught with danger, but really, at this point what do we have to lose?

    Let get on with it already, cause' what we're doing ain't working.
    Exactly. There is nothing left to lose because we have already lost it all. My sig alone spells out the many numerated grievances that led to the Revolution. Every one of theirs is just as true today as ours. $#@! it. I have not filed nor paid income tax going on 8 yrs to either the Federal government or the State government. I am a conscientious objector. And I'm fine to live my life as peacefully as I can. As long as I am allowed.

  23. #20
    Yeah he's called for this before and he's dead wrong. I love Rand but no one in their right mind would want the dumbasses who run our current state legislatures to have the chance to screw with the Bill of Rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Yeah he's called for this before and he's dead wrong. I love Rand but no one in their right mind would want the dumbasses who run our current state legislatures to have the chance to screw with the Bill of Rights.
    I hear you. But there are two things that might make it work:

    1. They all have to submit the same thing. If thirty something states submit thirty something different things, it won't mean a thing. It'll all be for naught.

    2. If we put a sufficient emphasis on the Tenth Amendment, then every scrap of power we strip Washington of winds up in the hands of state legislatures. In short, this'll be in the best interests of state legislators.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Yeah he's called for this before and he's dead wrong. I love Rand but no one in their right mind would want the dumbasses who run our current state legislatures to have the chance to screw with the Bill of Rights.
    The "Bill of Rights" has been screwed since the clowns in gowns created the mechanism for them to become the sole arbi-traitors of the Constitutions "interpretation." It's over, done with, game over WRT the "Bill of Rights." I'm sure you have noticed, friend.

  26. #23
    I haven't heard any CC proponent float the idea of using the convention to simply dissolve the compact and letting the states be states.
    I feel pretty confident that Virginia would be a better place to live overall without a federal government sticking its nose in our business.

    I mean we only have one interstate that isn't mainly used to shuttle Leviathan's drones around.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    The "Bill of Rights" has been screwed since the clowns in gowns created the mechanism for them to become the sole arbi-traitors of the Constitutions "interpretation." It's over, done with, game over WRT the "Bill of Rights." I'm sure you have noticed, friend.
    The founders had that pretty well figured out, up until the passage of the 17th Amendment.
    I also haven't heard CC proponents say they want to get rid of that one and go back to SCOTUS nominees being approved indirectly by state legislatures.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.



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  29. #25
    Senator Paul stated, “Years of abuse and overreach by the judicial, legislative and executive branches of the federal government have obliterated the enumerated powers established by our founders and made a mockery of the 10th Amendment rights granted to the states and the people.

    "That’s why I support the Convention of States Project to restore the original constitutional limits on federal power by calling a limited convention to propose amendments to rein in our out-of-control federal government.”
    TheTexan is a great person, one of my favorite people

    -Donald J Trump
    Last edited by TheTexan; 03-24-2018 at 07:23 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    The "Bill of Rights" has been screwed since the clowns in gowns created the mechanism for them to become the sole arbi-traitors of the Constitutions "interpretation." It's over, done with, game over WRT the "Bill of Rights." I'm sure you have noticed, friend.
    How is watering down the plain language of the Bill of Rights going to enforce it? That's the problem, you don't rewrite the Bible to stop your pastor from cheating on his wife. Nothing the COS people have suggested is worth jack.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I hear you. But there are two things that might make it work:

    1. They all have to submit the same thing. If thirty something states submit thirty something different things, it won't mean a thing. It'll all be for naught.
    Which means all we will get out of it is lame resolutions like a Balanced Budget amendment. Guess what, state legislatures across the country already have BBA. They still spend like drunken sailors, they just keep a lot of their spending out of the technical budget.
    2. If we put a sufficient emphasis on the Tenth Amendment, then every scrap of power we strip Washington of winds up in the hands of state legislatures. In short, this'll be in the best interests of state legislators.
    Except that the 10th is already clear as rain, it's just not enforced. Most of the people like Levin calling for a convention hate nullification anyway. Tom Woods has asked to debate and Levin refused.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    The founders had that pretty well figured out, up until the passage of the 17th Amendment.
    I also haven't heard CC proponents say they want to get rid of that one and go back to SCOTUS nominees being approved indirectly by state legislatures.
    I'm pretty sure the Constitution, specifically the "Bill of Rights," began dying around 1810 with Justice Marshall. When a triumverate is formed it is naturally assumed that each branch will choose to enhance their power over the others by siding with either of their opponents. In a group of three, two is the majority rule. And here we are.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    How is watering down the plain language of the Bill of Rights going to enforce it? That's the problem, you don't rewrite the Bible to stop your pastor from cheating on his wife. Nothing the COS people have suggested is worth jack.
    I suppose my point is exactly that I'm fine with that. Water it down. So translucent in the process that it is readily apparent. I, truthfully, would support it. Let's do this.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I'm pretty sure the Constitution, specifically the "Bill of Rights," began dying around 1810 with Justice Marshall. When a triumverate is formed it is naturally assumed that each branch will choose to enhance their power over the others by siding with either of their opponents. In a group of three, two is the majority rule. And here we are.
    All of the founders hated standing armies - or so they said. I don't quite believe it, considering the current US army traces its roots back to before the formation of the US as a country, and whether or not that's technically true, it IS technically true that the current US Army was created prior to the adoption of the Constitution.

    They put language in the Constitution that was supposed to disband any army after 2 years, they put language in the Constitution that named the militia explicitly as the tool that would defend the country, and yet here we are, never having not had a standing army.

    If the current army goes back to 1784, and the 1789 constitution stated that specific army was not to have funding that lasted more than 2 years, then in at least one respect, the US Constitution failed the second it was ratified.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

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