Trump Doubling Down On The Drug War?

[osan]

Just got home from airport, having retrieved the wife from FL. She plays news and lo and behold there is our president advocating for hunting peddlers of "these deadly poisons", referring to opioids. He went so far as to call for the death penalty.

Going back to my position of skepticism, I now have something into which to sink my teeth. This position, as expressed in this manner, seems to have no possible practical value in terms of oblique strategies for buying time, killing swamp things, or what have you. With this, my suspicions and mistrust have gained territory. How can he go on about "freedom" from the one side of his mouth and spew authoritarian nonsense such as this from the other?

So I guess I have my first example of a clearly questionable position that to my mind cannot be explained away as tactics pursuant to an oblique survival strategy as he preps for a coup de grace against the swamp things. I am not surprised in the least, but I am very disappointed. Could this be pandering?

Stupidity makes my head hurt.

[dannno]

He wants to increase penalties for trafficking fentanyl, not your corner street dealer but the people bringing here over the border in large quantities - and this fentanyl is being fraudulently misrepresented in the black market as heroin and causing a lot of deaths - but under his plan they would only be able to use the death penalty it if they found that the trafficking directly caused many people to die.

I don't think that is going to happen. I think they will just increase the penalties for trafficking fentanyl.

I'm not fan of the war on drugs, and in fact that is the cause of the fentanyl problem.. there is no clean, legal and affordable source for opiates and so people turn to the dangerous cheap stuff on the streets.

However, the free market would probably treat such a situation fairly similarly if they were causing deaths by misrepresenting their product. Murder charges?

Trump is not a consistent promoter of liberty by any stretch of the imagination, but he is fighting against people who loath freedom a lot more than he does. In fact, in his younger years, Trump once advocated for the legalization of drugs.

[Swordsmyth]

Just got home from airport, having retrieved the wife from FL. She plays news and lo and behold there is our president advocating for hunting peddlers of "these deadly poisons", referring to opioids. He went so far as to call for the death penalty.

Going back to my position of skepticism, I now have something into which to sink my teeth. This position, as expressed in this manner, seems to have no possible practical value in terms of oblique strategies for buying time, killing swamp things, or what have you. With this, my suspicions and mistrust have gained territory. How can he go on about "freedom" from the one side of his mouth and spew authoritarian nonsense such as this from the other?

So I guess I have my first example of a clearly questionable position that to my mind cannot be explained away as tactics pursuant to an oblique survival strategy as he preps for a coup de grace against the swamp things. I am not surprised in the least, but I am very disappointed. Could this be pandering?

Stupidity makes my head hurt.

This may be his own idea or it may be to please Sessions, either way it isn't good but it also doesn't mean he isn't using "strategy" elsewhere, I disagree with most of the moves that are theorized as being strategy but I'm still waiting to see how his first term goes since we are stuck with him until then.

[DamianTV]

They'll always find a convenient target to blame in order to prevent themselves from being painted in any negative light. *Cough Cough BIG PHARMA* Who makes Fentanyl? Oh yeah, Big Pharma, so lets go for the $#@!ing DEATH PENALTY against street dealers. THAT is a VERY dangerous slippery slope that can be expanded VERY quickly. How long until the DEATH PENALTY is extended to Fake News? Being a Libertarian? Non Christian? Or at this rate, hell even Death Penalty for being Christian in America? At the rate we are going downhill, do not be surprised by anything.

[Working Poor]

He wants to increase penalties for trafficking fentanyl, not your corner street dealer but the people bringing here over the border in large quantities - and this fentanyl is being fraudulently misrepresented in the black market as heroin and causing a lot of deaths - but under his plan they would only be able to use the death penalty it if they found that the trafficking directly caused many people to die.

I don't think that is going to happen. I think they will just increase the penalties for trafficking fentanyl.

I'm not fan of the war on drugs, and in fact that is the cause of the fentanyl problem.. there is no clean, legal and affordable source for opiates and so people turn to the dangerous cheap stuff on the streets.

However, the free market would probably treat such a situation fairly similarly if they were causing deaths by misrepresenting their product. Murder charges?

Trump is not a consistent promoter of liberty by any stretch of the imagination, but he is fighting against people who loath freedom a lot more than he does. In fact, in his younger years, Trump once advocated for the legalization of drugs.

If he doesn't go after the ones manufacturing fentanyl then he is being very hypocritical. Also isn't the CIA bringing in heroin? Is he going to stop them? I just don't see how the stuff can get in without the help of government. It seems to me that the government creates most of the crisis going on. I think Clinton/Bush have something to do with it too. It is so F'ed up.

[osan]

[QUOTE=dannno;6605142]He wants to increase penalties for trafficking fentanyl, not your corner street dealer but the people bringing here over the border in large quantities - and this fentanyl is being fraudulently misrepresented in the black market as heroin and causing a lot of deaths - but under his plan they would only be able to use the death penalty it if they found that the trafficking directly caused many people to die. "

Well, if what you say is so, it may be I caught only a sound-bitish portion because she was surfing through.

Now, if it is only for trafficking fentanyl, I must disagree completely. None of it should be illegal. If it is for trafficking misrepresented product, then I agree completely as that is not only fraud, but a potentially deadly or maiming variety.

I'd not thought of the "I don't have the complete picture" angle. It was late, we were both very tired... But still, it's worth noting, if for no other reason than getting some clarity.

I don't think that is going to happen. I think they will just increase the penalties for trafficking fentanyl.

I say decriminalize manufacture, sale, possession, and use of all this crap and establish truly dreadful penalties for manufacturing and trafficking that which does not meet an established standard of purity/content, or is being otherwise misrepresented. Misrepresentation is fraud which in this case may easily lead to death or severe injury. Once again, the carrot and stick is the proper approach.

Decriminalization removes the profit motive, which is both stick and carrot at once. Draconian punishment for violating the ethic of honest business practice such that death or injury may result, when taken in the context of a business that no longer rakes in mega-profits, pretty well removes the force driving people to manufacture and sell that which cannot be trusted. Why go to prison for 30 years at hard labor for making/selling substandard product when a small effort to establish and maintain proper manufacturing controls is all that is required to avoid a cell.

I'm not fan of the war on drugs, and in fact that is the cause of the fentanyl problem.. there is no clean, legal and affordable source for opiates and so people turn to the dangerous cheap stuff on the streets.

5x5 on this.

However, the free market would probably treat such a situation fairly similarly if they were causing deaths by misrepresenting their product. Murder charges?

Exactly. We have everything we need on the books. No new laws are required. Congress stands, obviated.

Trump is not a consistent promoter of liberty by any stretch of the imagination,

So it seems, but I maintain the possibility that he may be indulging in this boilerplate rhetoric so as not to gratuitously inflame those of whom he recognizes the need not to make into overt enemies... at least no yet. It it, at least for me, impossible to tell what are his real drivers.

but he is fighting against people who loath freedom a lot more than he does.

This is my suspicion as well, and if it is the case, then we should at the very least not regard him with the same loathing as we have for the likes of an Obama or Clinton because they are clearly not equivalent. Once again, the problem I see with those even here who so openly and seemingly irrationally hating Trump as they do is that their expectations are not realistic. As I've mentioned already, had Ron Paul become president in 2016, he would have been faced with the precise same choice as Trump: play the game and manage steps toward freedom and restraint on governance, or stand too firmly on principle and go nowhere. Trump has apparently decided not to go nowhere. Where he has decided to lead... that remains the $64 question in my mind.

That all stated for the umpteenth time, I wish Trump would choose his words with greater care. If he is on the level, he fails at making it clear with the gratuitously inflammatory statements he makes. I grant that were he to offer free fellatio to every lefty in the land whilst flinging wide the doors to the land for every substandard freak on the planet, the "left" would still find a way to demonize him because that is now the goal regardless of any good he might do. They should be rounded up and drugged against their wills. That, I say that's a joke, son...

In fact, in his younger years, Trump once advocated for the legalization of drugs.

Didn't know that. Even legalization would be better than a drug war, but decriminalization would be best. Beyond reacting to outcomes, "government" has no business there.

[osan]

This may be his own idea or it may be to please Sessions, either way it isn't good but it also doesn't mean he isn't using "strategy" elsewhere, I disagree with most of the moves that are theorized as being strategy but I'm still waiting to see how his first term goes since we are stuck with him until then.

Precisely. Unless one of the Trump-hating blowhards is willing to man up and take a shot at him, we are indeed stuck with him until 2020.

It is so typical of the ilk... whinge, whine, bitch, and moan, all the while expecting someone else to do the dirty work. That is what the vast majority of Americans have become.

[osan]

Also isn't the CIA bringing in heroin? Is he going to stop them?

Hold on there - unless Trump can VERY quietly assemble the teams (SEALs, recon, etc.) and pretty well storm Langley and arrest pretty much everyone at once, an attempt on CIA is a likely death sentence. CIA is a government unto itself in point of practical fact. They have proven themselves deeply entrenched, very capable in the ways of mayhem, and would likely not go down without a fight. If I THINK I stand to face charges of treason for which the death penalty is carried, I really have nothing to lose by setting assets to ventilate a president's skull. If CIA is on the end of a string in unknown hands, the risks become even greater. Such an entity probably needs to be addressed in Godfather style - hitting them all at once in every known vital location. Every rat you leave free to flee represents a very real threat to life and limb. CIA is a beast in the worst sense of the term, or at least elements of it. Given their ostensive business, they are ultimate pragmatists.

I just don't see how the stuff can get in without the help of government. It seems to me that the government creates most of the crisis going on. I think Clinton/Bush have something to do with it too. It is so F'ed up.

I suspect this all goes way beyond those whose names are known, and yes - it is indeed ****** up.

[donnay]

They'll always find a convenient target to blame in order to prevent themselves from being painted in any negative light. *Cough Cough BIG PHARMA* Who makes Fentanyl? Oh yeah, Big Pharma, so lets go for the $#@!ing DEATH PENALTY against street dealers. THAT is a VERY dangerous slippery slope that can be expanded VERY quickly. How long until the DEATH PENALTY is extended to Fake News? Being a Libertarian? Non Christian? Or at this rate, hell even Death Penalty for being Christian in America? At the rate we are going downhill, do not be surprised by anything.

“Legal Opioids Have Killed Hundreds of Thousands As Big Pharma Bribes Politicians to Ignore It”

President Trump has said he watched his brother die from too much alcohol consumption. What did he do about it, he became a Teetotaler. He should lead by example on this. One thing we learned from the history of alcohol prohibition is; it did not stop people from making/drinking it.

[acptulsa]

...but... but...

I don't think that is going to happen.

However... but...

...it isn't good but... "strategy"... strategy but... stuck with him...

Same $#!+ different day.

[Origanalist]

Same $#!+ different day.

But just as amazing.

[dannno]

They'll always find a convenient target to blame in order to prevent themselves from being painted in any negative light. *Cough Cough BIG PHARMA* Who makes Fentanyl? Oh yeah, Big Pharma, so lets go for the $#@!ing DEATH PENALTY against street dealers. THAT is a VERY dangerous slippery slope that can be expanded VERY quickly. How long until the DEATH PENALTY is extended to Fake News? Being a Libertarian? Non Christian? Or at this rate, hell even Death Penalty for being Christian in America? At the rate we are going downhill, do not be surprised by anything.

You should read my post. The death penalty isn't for street dealers of heroin. It is for people trafficking large amounts of it into our country from China and elsewhere - and it only applies if what was trafficked ends up killing a lot of people.

But that does put some liability on any local fentanyl producers, as well as the CIA, if they are supplying large quantities to the streets.

How would the free market handle that? Probably not the death penalty, but quite possibly with murder charges. It is most certainly fraudulent to sell fentanyl as heroin.

[oyarde]

I dunno that anyone even cares about the drug war . Like so many other wars it is lost , has been for some time and the lives and money are not returning .

[Schifference]

If Trump wanted to make America Great Again, he would abolish all drug laws and encourage entrepreneurs to start producing heroin, cocaine, and any other drug that has a market. We could become a great exporter. Think of the jobs and taxes.