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Thread: If there was ever a Libertarian religion, this is it.

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A true Libertarian doesn't care what religion you are- you should be free to practice whatever one you choose to believe in.
    True , I care not what fools and the false gods they worship do . I have plenty of ammo if they come for me .



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    The punishment of hell is most commonly described as some sort of fire, although I imagine there may be some lesser punishments for less-"bad" people. If we look at the actual text of 33:64-65, I was wrong to say they would stay in jahanam forever - it says they will abide within the punishment forever.

    Indeed, Allah has cursed the disbelievers and prepared for them a Blaze.


    Abiding therein forever, they will not find a protector or a helper.

    Unless the arabic word used doesn't mean blaze at all and it was a mistranslation, looks like anonymous ron paul forum member actually does know more then salafi hero ibn qayyim al jawziyyah.

    Sorry about calling that shooting star story retarded $#@!, I should have been more specific. It's an infantile description of natural phenomena that has no basis in reality except for in the minds of the thoroughly brainwashed.

    I'll try to respond to some ofthe other comments when i get home, those appear to be a bit more difficult and I may need to reassess some of my thoughts
    No it's not an infantile attempt at explaining natural phenomenon because the religious texts in no way infer shooting stars as the fire used to ward of the jinn.

    Anyway it says they will reside in jahanam not undergo eternal punishment, Ibn Al Qayyim especially noted the words used such as khalideena which he felt could mean a long time rather than forever, which it's often translated to in English.

    He said:
    أنه ليس في حكمة احكم الحاكمين إن يخلق خلقا يعذبهم ابد الآباد عذابا سرمدا لا نهاية له ولا انقطاع أبدا
    It is not befitting that the highest of judges would create a creation just to punish them forever without end or disruption

    And this goes to my point about punishment for finite indiscretions in an eternal way.

    The only way you could justify eternal punishment in my view is if such a person would continue to be evil no matter what truth they were shown, what punishment they underwent, etc. Whether or not such a person exists, I have my doubts. Maybe the devil himself?

    Eitherway again these are nuances of theology that you need a pretty good education to understand/know about.
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A true Libertarian doesn't care what religion you are- you should be free to practice whatever one you choose to believe in.
    I like you mate, but why do people confuse libertarian with being all-inclusive and accepting rather than what it really is; against government coercion in your life decisions.

    You can be fully libertarian and despise a certain faith or way of life.

    Being libertarian doesn't preclude you from having personal opinions. In fact I think one of the tragedies of our generation is this type of apathy, we should be proselytizing our ways of life, we should be having those debates. I so much rather duke it out with a Christian over matters of faith than some apathetic wishy-washy type who will just say, "whatever makes you happy bro!".

    Kind of a side rant but still.
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    I like you mate, but why do people confuse libertarian with being all-inclusive and accepting rather than what it really is; against government coercion in your life decisions.

    You can be fully libertarian and despise a certain faith or way of life.

    Being libertarian doesn't preclude you from having personal opinions. In fact I think one of the tragedies of our generation is this type of apathy, we should be proselytizing our ways of life, we should be having those debates. I so much rather duke it out with a Christian over matters of faith than some apathetic wishy-washy type who will just say, "whatever makes you happy bro!".

    Kind of a side rant but still.
    You can define it however you wish but I believe what makes one a libertarian is opposition to coercion from any source.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    I like you mate, but why do people confuse libertarian with being all-inclusive and accepting rather than what it really is; against government coercion in your life decisions.

    You can be fully libertarian and despise a certain faith or way of life.

    Being libertarian doesn't preclude you from having personal opinions. In fact I think one of the tragedies of our generation is this type of apathy, we should be proselytizing our ways of life, we should be having those debates. I so much rather duke it out with a Christian over matters of faith than some apathetic wishy-washy type who will just say, "whatever makes you happy bro!".

    Kind of a side rant but still.
    I consider myself libertarian and I do not care what others believe, or what consenting adults do, as long as I am not forced into it.
    There is no spoon.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Canard View Post
    You can define it however you wish but I believe what makes one a libertarian is opposition to coercion from any source.
    Sure, physical coercion or threats from any source because that violates the other persons sovereignty. But say for example you have a child who has made certain life choices that you don't agree with so you kick them out. I think you can do that while being entirely libertarian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I consider myself libertarian and I do not care what others believe, or what consenting adults do, as long as I am not forced into it.
    And that's a personal choice but it is not a requisite for being "libertarian" which is a political ideology.

    I mean I have strong stances on certain social issues because of what I feel are long term effects. I think for example to allow vices to become the norm, hypersexuality, gluttony, individualism (the idea that ones personal happiness is the ultimate goal), all of this will spell the end for a well functioning society.
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    Sure, physical coercion or threats from any source because that violates the other persons sovereignty. But say for example you have a child who has made certain life choices that you don't agree with so you kick them out. I think you can do that while being entirely libertarian.



    And that's a personal choice but it is not a requisite for being "libertarian" which is a political ideology.

    I mean I have strong stances on certain social issues because of what I feel are long term effects. I think for example to allow vices to become the norm, hypersexuality, gluttony, individualism (the idea that ones personal happiness is the ultimate goal), all of this will spell the end for a well functioning society.
    I would never kick a child out because I don't agree with him.

    I try to live by Christ's 2nd Great Commandment: Love thy brother as thyself.
    There is no spoon.

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I would never kick a child out because I don't agree with him.

    I try to live by Christ's 2nd Great Commandment: Love thy brother as thyself.
    Right but that wasn't the point of what I said at all. I was using an extreme example to illustrate a broader point

    That's to say you could even go as far as to kick out your own kin for their lifestyle choices, while still allowing them their sovereignty and being against coercion against individuals.
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹

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