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Thread: [Split] Haspel Appointment and Torture

  1. #1

    [Split] Haspel Appointment and Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    OUT OUT OUT!!! Drain the swamp! Whos next? Line em up.
    Pompeo, Haskel, and Bolton are lined up... for some neoconning on steroids. Rah rah rah!!!
    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.

    I do not suffer from Trump Rearrangement Syndrome. Sorry if that triggers you.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    One down...
    ...one even swampier neocon tool lined up to take his place.

    Are we paying attention? The replacements coming in the revolving door are worse than those going out. What will it take to get those blinders off you and allow you to see it? John Bolton's appointment? Be'elzebub's?

    He appointed a torturer, for God's sake. How is it possible for someone to smugly say, 'One down...' when he's bringing in torturers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He appointed a torturer, for God's sake. How is it possible for someone to smugly say, 'One down...' when he's bringing in torturers?
    Are you paying attention or do you just swallow the MSM propaganda hook line and sinker? Oh you must have missed the very embarrassing retraction that makes your statement entirely false.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...nd-waterboardi
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Are you paying attention or do you just swallow the MSM propaganda hook line and sinker? Oh you must have missed the very embarrassing retraction that makes your statement entirely false.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...nd-waterboardi
    From that very link:

    ProPublica says its original findings had been supported by a former CIA officer who said Haspel had overseen American staff at the Thai prison and by three former officials who said she had been the chief of base when Zubaydah was waterboarded. Crucial parts of the story were also corroborated by The New York Times, ProPublica says.

    The story has made headlines in part because of public interest in Zubaydah — who lost his left eye while in U.S. custody and remains imprisoned at the Guantánamo Bay facility. But ProPublica also says Haspel was instrumental in the controversial decision to destroy recordings of Zubaydah's waterboarding. And it cites The New York Times' report of another detail that still seems to stand: that Haspel was running the CIA prison in 2002 when another detainee, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, was waterboarded.

    The year-old story about Haspel and Zubaydah rose to new prominence this week, as it was cited by people who say Haspel shouldn't be elevated to the role of leading the CIA.


    POLITICS
    Trump Replacing Secretary Of State Tillerson With CIA Director Mike Pompeo
    ProPublica had tweeted a link to resurface its 2017 story on Tuesday morning, after President Trump nominated Haspel as director of the CIA, in the reshuffling that was set off by the firing of former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.

    On Wednesday, Sen. Rand Paul said he would "do everything I can to block" Haspel's nomination as director, as well as Trump's pick of CIA Director Mike Pompeo to lead the State Department. Paul cited Sen. John McCain, a noted opponent of the use of torture, who said the Senate must scrutinize Haspel's involvement "in this disgraceful program."

    While ProPublica's retraction would seem to remove one of the most serious claims against Haspel, ProPublica reiterated that after she rose to a new position in the CIA, Haspel urged the agency to destroy 92 videotapes that had documented Zubaydah's treatment, including dozens of waterboardings and other techniques widely viewed as torture. Those tapes were eventually shredded.
    Why are you acting like a correction on certain details must necessarily be a blanket absolution? Nothing could be further from the case. If that worked, someone could write an article about how Nixon planned the Watergate break-in, and when that was proven false, Nixon would be exonerated of all wrongdoing in regard to Watergate. The fact is, he still participated in the cover-up, and a thousand articles accusing him of other stuff and a thousand retractions would not change the fact that he involved himself in the cover-up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Are you paying attention or do you just swallow the MSM propaganda hook line and sinker? Oh you must have missed the very embarrassing retraction that makes your statement entirely false.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...nd-waterboardi
    So has Haspel repudiated torture? Or is she all for it?

    If she doesn't repudiate it, then I don't see how acptulsa's statement is totally false. Obviously some detail about her not being the COB at that base in Thailand doesn't make what he said false.

    And if she does repudiate it, would Trump still want her for this job? I doubt it.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    So has Haspel repudiated torture? Or is she all for it?

    If she doesn't repudiate it, then I don't see how acptulsa's statement is totally false. Obviously some detail about her not being the COB at that base in Thailand doesn't make what he said false.

    And if she does repudiate it, would Trump still want her for this job? I doubt it.
    Not according to statements he made during the campaign.

    Not that he wasn't on every side of every issue during the campaign.

    He was the perfect candidate for everybody--or would have been, if everybody was capable of hearing only what they want to hear.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-17-2018 at 08:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  8. #7
    Jan2017
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    So has Haspel repudiated torture? Or is she all for it?

    If she doesn't repudiate it, then I don't see how acptulsa's statement is totally false. Obviously some detail about her not being the COB at that base in Thailand doesn't make what he said false.

    And if she does repudiate it, would Trump still want her for this job? I doubt it.
    This is a vetting problem . . .
    no US President in his right mind would nominate this atrocity of a human being - a woman - especially at this time before the USA-NK Summit . . .
    - to anything but a federal prison.
    And no Senator will vote to confirm this Trump nominee - regardless of party.
    This choice probably kills Trump re-election or even GOP nomination and Rand was right out in front to call it out.


    Trump’s New CIA Nominee, Gina Haspel, Faces Possible Arrest Warrant in Germany over Torture

    Last edited by Jan2017; 03-17-2018 at 08:58 AM.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    This is a vetting problem . . .
    no US President in his right mind would nominate this atrocity of a human being - a woman - especially at this time before the USA-NK Summit . . .
    - to anything but a federal prison.
    And no Senator will vote to confirm this Trump nominee - regardless of party.
    This choice probably kills Trump re-election or even GOP nomination and Rand was right out in front to call it out.


    Trump’s New CIA Nominee, Gina Haspel, Faces Possible Arrest Warrant in Germany over Torture

    While I stand with Rand on his stance on torture the record needs to be straight, regardless.

    ProPublica issues major correction to report about Gina Haspel’s role in torture program
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...orture-program
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    While I stand with Rand on his stance on torture the record needs to be straight, regardless.
    Is the accusation that she supports torture not part of that straight record?

  12. #10
    Is it just me, or is conversing with Trump fans like riding a merry-go-round? Is it deja vú, or do we really keep winding up where we started?

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    ...one even swampier neocon tool lined up to take his place.

    Are we paying attention? The replacements coming in the revolving door are worse than those going out. What will it take to get those blinders off you and allow you to see it? John Bolton's appointment? Be'elzebub's?

    He appointed a torturer, for God's sake. How is it possible for someone to smugly say, 'One down...' when he's bringing in torturers?
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Are you paying attention or do you just swallow the MSM propaganda hook line and sinker? Oh you must have missed the very embarrassing retraction that makes your statement entirely false.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...nd-waterboardi
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    From that very link:



    Why are you acting like a correction on certain details must necessarily be a blanket absolution? Nothing could be further from the case. If that worked, someone could write an article about how Nixon planned the Watergate break-in, and when that was proven false, Nixon would be exonerated of all wrongdoing in regard to Watergate. The fact is, he still participated in the cover-up, and a thousand articles accusing him of other stuff and a thousand retractions would not change the fact that he involved himself in the cover-up.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Not according to statements he made during the campaign.

    Not that he wasn't on every side of every issue during the campaign.

    He was the perfect candidate for everybody--or would have been, if everybody was capable of hearing only what they want to hear.
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    While I stand with Rand on his stance on torture the record needs to be straight, regardless.

    ProPublica issues major correction to report about Gina Haspel’s role in torture program
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...orture-program
    Round and round we go. Whether they'll hear anything they don't want to hear this time around, nobody knows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  13. #11
    Jan2017
    Member

    Trump vill ha tortyranhängaren ”Bloody” Gina Haspel som ny CIA-chef.


    Den republikanske senator Rand Paul sa igår att han skulle opponera sig mot Donald Trump’s nominering av Gina Haspel som chef för CIA och anklagade henne för att ha visat tydlig glädje och tillfredsställelse (“joyful glee”) under tortyr av misstänkta terrorister. Rand Paul uppgav också att han kommer att blockera att Mike Pompeo blir utrikesminister.




    http://jinge.se/allmant/foreslagna-n...tyr-expert.htm
    -------------------------------------------------

    Trump wants torture hanger "Bloody" Gina Haspel as new CIA boss

    Republican Senator Rand Paul said yesterday that he would oppose Donald Trump's nomination of Gina Haskel as head of the CIA
    and accused her of showing clear joy and satisfaction from the torture of suspected terrorists.

    Rand Paul also stated that he will block Mike Pompeo becoming Secretary of State "utrikesminister" "Foreign Minister"

    __________________________________________________ ________

    Rand Paul: Trump’s Pick for CIA Director Was “Gleeful” About Torture

    Senator Rand Paul said that the nomination for new Director of the CIA, Gina Haspel, is “the wrong kind of message to send to the world”.

    “Trump’s appointing people around him who actually still think the Iraq war was a good idea”

    https://www.republicanmatters.com/ra...about-torture/



    Last edited by Jan2017; 03-17-2018 at 09:53 AM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Is it just me, or is conversing with Trump fans like riding a merry-go-round? Is it deja vú, or do we really keep winding up where we started?

    Round and round we go. Whether they'll hear anything they don't want to hear this time around, nobody knows.
    You've parroted the article back at me without even questioning it... is it factual, is it reliable, is it supported by evidence..... I'm not here to do your thinking for you. See sig.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    So has Haspel repudiated torture? Or is she all for it?

    If she doesn't repudiate it, then I don't see how acptulsa's statement is totally false. Obviously some detail about her not being the COB at that base in Thailand doesn't make what he said false.

    And if she does repudiate it, would Trump still want her for this job? I doubt it.
    To have any chance of confirmation of course she will repudiate it, whether she believes it or not. You think she'll go up to a senate panel and advocate for torture? That's a suicide mission.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    You've parroted the article back at me without even questioning it... is it factual, is it reliable, is it supported by evidence..... I'm not here to do your thinking for you. See sig.
    You didn't even do that much. You linked the article, didn't excerpt it, then misinterpreted it to mean every word of the previous news story was false. You seem to want me to question the facts in the article, but don't seem to want me to question whether your post is factual.

    You clearly aren't here to do my thinking for me. In fact, you seem to resent it when I do any thinking at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    ...one even swampier neocon tool lined up to take his place.

    Are we paying attention? The replacements coming in the revolving door are worse than those going out. What will it take to get those blinders off you and allow you to see it? John Bolton's appointment? Be'elzebub's?

    He appointed a torturer, for God's sake. How is it possible for someone to smugly say, 'One down...' when he's bringing in torturers?
    Though if Trump keeps this rate, the neocons will find themselves on the chopping block.

    Its all a grand strategy; Trump brings these fools into office, then his boys pull the rug out from under them. It would be a great method for killing off these careerists, if not for the fact the MSM create martyrs out of them.

    Still, if the dirt sticks long after the news cycle, you've got a leaky swamp.

    See? There are explanations for everything, as long as you just believe in Trump.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    ...one even swampier neocon tool lined up to take his place.

    Are we paying attention? The replacements coming in the revolving door are worse than those going out. What will it take to get those blinders off you and allow you to see it? John Bolton's appointment? Be'elzebub's?

    He appointed a torturer, for God's sake. How is it possible for someone to smugly say, 'One down...' when he's bringing in torturers?
    That is an aspect only few watch.

    But from where I sit (perspective) it appears the Growth of the Police State may have different focus..
    A strategic change in leadership (of an agency that should be disbanded) ,, and from an agency that should never exist.

    CIA/Police State Merger.

    and that ain't good.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    To have any chance of confirmation of course she will repudiate it, whether she believes it or not. You think she'll go up to a senate panel and advocate for torture? That's a suicide mission.
    Really? I was thinking it would be a resume enhancement in the Senate.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    To have any chance of confirmation of course she will repudiate it ...
    Repudiate?

    Will Haspel bring back the 92 videotapes and documents and other evidence she destroyed? Will she have the courage of John Kiriakou and go full whistle-blower and expose all the activities and crimes that took place and what she knows? Will she call for the prosecution of the torturers and those who ordered it and over saw it? Will she testify against everyone involved? Will she call for the felony prosecution of those who destroyed the evidence and the person (herself) who ordered its destruction?

    Until she does all of that, there is no repudiation.

    Simply saying ,"Gee now that we got caught, I think torture and covering up torture crimes is bad, now give me that appointment" is not is repudiation.

    It is akin to asking Charlie Manson ti say "Murder is bad" and now everything is forgiven.
    Or simply saying all Andrew McCabe has to do is say "Gee now that I'm caught, abusing the power of the FBI, manufacturing evidence, collusion with political parties and media, spying on political candidates for political objectives, selectively leaking confidential and false information to media for political sabotage, covering up felony crimes and other criminal activities is bad" - and then McCabe should be appointed FBI Director.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  22. #19


    "I'd bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding."

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    While I stand with Rand on his stance on torture the record needs to be straight, regardless.

    ProPublica issues major correction to report about Gina Haspel’s role in torture program
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...orture-program
    Hold the phone!

    She was not directly involved with tortures, merely indirectly involved with the goings on in blacksite Thailand. This changes everything...

  24. #21
    Jan2017
    Member

    Gina Haspel should be arrested – not put in charge of the CIA

    If the US Senate has a single shred of respect left for the law, it should not confirm her appointment

    We’re on the brink of a full-throttled return to officially sanctioned US torture. Our impulsive president has said he wants to bring back waterboarding “and a hell of a lot worse” and has now named Gina Haspel as the new CIA chief. Haspel personally oversaw torture at a CIA black site in Thailand, and she even seemed to relish the role.

    Former CIA Director John Brennan, who supported rendition to torture and famously said, “we do have to take the gloves off in some areas,” this week vouched for Haspel’s “integrity” and told an interviewer, “don’t forget that the detention-interrogation program was authorized by the president of the United States and deemed lawful by the Department of Justice.”

    Former CIA chief General Michael Hayden said in defense of Haspel, that she did “simply everything that the agency, the agency’s directors and the nation asked her to do.”

    Torture is illegal under US and international law in all circumstances, and human rights organizations like mine have been strongly pushing for those who ordered or committed torture after 9/11 – including the president – to be held accountable in US and international courts.

    Yet Haspel’s defenders are loathe to admit that the practice she participated in was concerning, much less illegal. So defending Haspel as a duty-bound functionary when it comes to torture but a vibrant leader with great integrity when it comes to everything else seeks to erase the illegality and the depravity of the practice of torture.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...vincent-warren

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Hold the phone!

    She was not directly involved with tortures, merely indirectly involved with the goings on in blacksite Thailand. This changes everything...
    The person who was part of the CIA torture program was called Bloody Gina. Don't take my word for it, the Enhanced interrogation architect $#@!ing loves Gina.



    Regardless of the retraction of one anecdote, the fact remains that Gina Haspel was instrumental in running a place where people were tortured. According to multiple published, undisputed accounts, she oversaw a black site and she further destroyed evidence of torture. This should preclude her from ever running the CIA,"- Doug Stafford,

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Hold the phone!

    She was not directly involved with tortures, merely indirectly involved with the goings on in blacksite Thailand. This changes everything...
    Read what ProPublic first wrote. Again, let me reiterate, I do not condone torture.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Read what ProPublic first wrote. Again, let me reiterate, I do not condone torture.
    You have a screenshot? Because as those of us who actually read these articles and retractions already know, they have rewritten that original article to make it accurate. The original article as written is no longer available on their site. What is there now is what they could confirm.

    You keep saying you don't condone torture. Well and good. But will you go on record and say whether you condone Trump nominating this torturer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You have a screenshot? Because as those of us who actually read these articles and retractions already know, they have rewritten that original article to make it accurate. The original article as written is no longer available on their site. What is there now is what they could confirm.

    You keep saying you don't condone torture. Well and good. But will you go on record and say whether you condone Trump nominating this torturer?
    I have already said, I stand with Rand and I do not condone torture of any kind nor do I like the idea Trump has appointed her.

    I have no screenshot of the first report.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  30. #26

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    It's classified so don't worry about it, there is no torture program.

    Somebody needs to tariff Col. Sanders...

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Is it just me, or is conversing with Trump fans like riding a merry-go-round? Is it deja vú, or do we really keep winding up where we started?











    Round and round we go. Whether they'll hear anything they don't want to hear this time around, nobody knows.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  33. #29

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Even so, current Syria war bloodbath policy is not run by neocons but by America-First honest, non-swampy policy makers.
    Correct. Let's not jump to conclusions before all the facts are out. We may need to seat these distinguished statesmen before we know what makes them tick.

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