Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 101

Thread: National debt hits $21 trillion

  1. #1

    National debt hits $21 trillion

    I thought debt would decrease under GOP cut-spending/small gummit regime:

    Saturday, March 17, 2018

    National debt hits $21 trillion



    Federal borrowing has been on the rise again since February, when Congress passed legislation to suspend the debt ceiling. (Mark HumphreyAP)






    The national debt exceeded $21 trillion for the first time on Thursday, a little more than six months after it hit first $20 trillion on Sept. 8.
    The national debt was $21.031 trillion on Thursday. The government releases total debt figures each business day, but it lags by one day.
    Federal borrowing has been on the rise again since February, when Congress passed legislation to suspend the debt ceiling. That move allowed the government to borrow as much as it needs to fund the activities approved by Congress.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ts-21-trillion




    Related


    President Trump on Track to Charge Taxpayers $237 Million for Golf Trips

    https://www.americanprogressaction.o...on-golf-trips/


    Secretary of Health and Human Services Tom Price took private jets on five trips billed as “official travel,” . Price has taken at least 24 private flights costing $300,000.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/688607001/


    Ben Carson Spent $31K on a Dining Table, and 5 Other Times Trump Cabinet Members Wasted Your Money
    https://reason.com/blog/2018/03/01/b...xpayer-cash-on



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Very concerned that this could spark Tea Party 2.0 movement since leaving massive debts for our grand childrens is highly unacceptable.






    Tea Party Revolts Against Obama's Budget as Debt Exceeds $19 Trillion
    thefiscaltimes
    Feb 4, 2016 - But Senate Budget Committee Chair Mike Enzi (R-WY) and House Budget Committee chief Tom Price (R-GA) issued a joint statement tonight saying Donovan wasn't welcome to testify because the administration wasn't serious about addressing the mounting national debt – which reached an historic $19 Trillion

  4. #3
    So what, if he gets elected another term we are going to hit 30 trillion?

    Does anyone not understand why this is not sustainable?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    I thought debt would decrease under GOP cut-spending/small gummit regime:
    No doubt it would. Must be why we can't have nice things like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    I thought debt would decrease under GOP cut-spending/small gummit regime
    LOL - What in the world gave you that idea?

    That said, who cares?

    At $21 trillion, this is now purely academic, this debt will never be paid, it can't be paid.

    There are only three options:

    A - Kick the can down the road indefinitely, or at least until that becomes impossible, which then leaves only options B and C.

    B - Default and tell all our debt holders to pound sand.

    C - War.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    LOL - What in the world gave you that idea?

    That said, who cares?

    At $21 trillion, this is now purely academic, this debt will never be paid, it can't be paid.

    There are only three options:

    A - Kick the can down the road indefinitely, or at least until that becomes impossible, which then leaves only options B and C.

    B - Default and tell all our debt holders to pound sand.

    C - War.
    There's a fourth option, and it's far more likely than the other three. We can print 21 trillion FRNs, and use those to pay off the bonds.

    Of course, we had better be ready to insist on getting our pay in bitcoin or silver or whatever we can get, because by that time a loaf of bread will cost $175,000 FRNs.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    There's a fourth option, and it's far more likely than the other three. We can print 21 trillion FRNs, and use those to pay off the bonds.

    Of course, we had better be ready to insist on getting our pay in bitcoin or silver or whatever we can get, because by that time a loaf of bread will cost $175,000 FRNs.
    Yes, you are absolutely right, I had forgotten about Option D - Inflate and pay back in worthless FRNs and/or 0 and 1s.

    Then again, that's just another way skinning the cat, another way of carrying out Option B.

    Which, of course, leads to Outcome C

    All we gotta do is print up one of these, and poof, no more debt and plenty left over.

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 03-17-2018 at 09:23 AM.

  9. #8
    I am going to party like it is 1989 . Going out for a steak .



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Now that the national debt is a patriotic, military growing, pro-American debt, it's a good thing rather than a bad thing like it was when it was an anti-American, Muslim debt.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    When Donald Trump talks about torture, I don't know what he really believes for sure, but he gets attacked on what he says unjustly by the media and many people here

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Now that the national debt is a patriotic, military growing, pro-American debt, it's a good thing rather than a bad thing like it was when it was an anti-American, Muslim debt.
    It is a horrible thing but it is not going anywhere .

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    There's a fourth option, and it's far more likely than the other three. We can print 21 trillion FRNs, and use those to pay off the bonds.

    Of course, we had better be ready to insist on getting our pay in bitcoin or silver or whatever we can get, because by that time a loaf of bread will cost $175,000 FRNs.
    Ya , in preparation I have pretty well given up luxuries like bread , cigarettes , donuts , candy and such . I just dehydrate my own fruit , grow my own veggies and eat meat . I just invested all those other FRN's in Ammo .

  14. #12
    Prophecy...



    Maybe if we spend just one more...
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.

  15. #13
    If interest rates go to five percent, what then?

    What about fifteen percent?

    Then the train ride ends. If you are dependent on government for anything, Social Security, housing, etc. you should really start considering other options as this show will fall apart if the Federal Reserve cannot keep interest rates near zero. Which they can't, forever.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    If interest rates go to five percent, what then?

    What about fifteen percent?

    Then the train ride ends. If you are dependent on government for anything, Social Security, housing, etc. you should really start considering other options as this show will fall apart if the Federal Reserve cannot keep interest rates near zero. Which they can't, forever.
    Forever is a long time. But we all know interest rates cannot be raised in any meaningful way in the foreseeable future, because it would tank literally everything. Ten years ago, the interest rate on our mortgage was 6 %. It's now 1.5 %. If mortgage interest rates shot back up to 6 %, it would mean that people would have to spend a huge percentage of their incomes just paying interest, because housing prices have been inflated by the low cost of borrowing. Which would mean they wouldn't spend it at restaurants or buying various widgets, which would mean that a lot of businesses would have to cut back/shut down, which would cause unemployment and people unable to pay their mortgages. The end result would be a negative feedback spiral killing the entire economy.

    I think "the plan" is to keep things going until we hit a wall. Because our only options are collapse now or collapse later. And no one in power wants collapse now, even if it would be a smaller collapse than the one waiting down the road...

  17. #15
    And this just had to happen on my birthday.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    And this just had to happen on my birthday.
    Cheers. Happy Birthday.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
    Forever is a long time. But we all know interest rates cannot be raised in any meaningful way in the foreseeable future, because it would tank literally everything. Ten years ago, the interest rate on our mortgage was 6 %. It's now 1.5 %. If mortgage interest rates shot back up to 6 %, it would mean that people would have to spend a huge percentage of their incomes just paying interest, because housing prices have been inflated by the low cost of borrowing. Which would mean they wouldn't spend it at restaurants or buying various widgets, which would mean that a lot of businesses would have to cut back/shut down, which would cause unemployment and people unable to pay their mortgages. The end result would be a negative feedback spiral killing the entire economy.

    I think "the plan" is to keep things going until we hit a wall. Because our only options are collapse now or collapse later. And no one in power wants collapse now, even if it would be a smaller collapse than the one waiting down the road...

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
    Forever is a long time. But we all know interest rates cannot be raised in any meaningful way in the foreseeable future, because it would tank literally everything
    I agree. We passed a key "milestone" maybe five years ago or so where we physically can't raise rates because we can't afford the interest on the national debt. So far we've been lucky, but at some point we're going to have to fight price inflation and then we're screwed.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Now that the national debt is a patriotic, military growing, pro-American debt, it's a good thing rather than a bad thing like it was when it was an anti-American, Muslim debt.
    Yup. There's 3 groups. Those that always think debt is bad, those that think only democratic debt is bad, and guys like you who only think republican debt is bad.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Yup. There's 3 groups. Those that always think debt is bad, those that think only democratic debt is bad, and guys like you who only think republican debt is bad.
    Who was that who recently voted to add another $1 trillion or more to the debt by passing the tax cuts? Deficit hawks?


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Who was that who recently voted to add another $1 trillion or more to the debt by passing the tax cuts? Deficit hawks?
    That's the worst kind of debt--Democrat-turned-Republican Bipartisan Debt. I'm pretty sure we'll be paying your Fed-owning fat bankster bosses double interest on that stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That's the worst kind of debt--Democrat-turned-Republican Bipartisan Debt. I'm pretty sure we'll be paying your Fed-owning fat bankster bosses double interest on that stuff.
    Debt is paid to the US Treasury- not the Fed.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Debt is paid to the US Treasury- not the Fed.
    Debt is paid to bondholders, Zippy, not the Treasury. Taxes may be paid to the Treasury, and the Treasury may divvy some of it up for interest payments. But bondholders wind up with it. And you damned well know it.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Debt is paid to bondholders, Zippy, not the Treasury. Taxes may be paid to the Treasury, and the Treasury may divvy some of it up for interest payments. But bondholders wind up with it. And you damned well know it.
    The Fed turns over any interest payments they receive (along with other profits minus their costs) to the US Treasury at the end of every year. $80 billion last year. https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-sen...017-1515600018


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The Fed turns over any interest payments they receive (along with other profits minus their costs) to the US Treasury at the end of every year. $80 billion last year. https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-sen...017-1515600018
    The bondholders still get the interest. Whether the Fed, which is only one bondholder, takes $500,000,000 as "expenses", then only plays with the money for a while (give me $80,200,000,000 for a couple of months and I'll make enough on the stock market to be more than just set for life) and gives it back, is irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The bondholders still get the interest. Whether the Fed, which is only one bondholder, takes $500,000,000 as "expenses", then only plays with the money for a while (give me $80,200,000,000 for a couple of months and I'll make enough on the stock market to be more than just set for life) and gives it back, is irrelevant.
    The Fed does not own any stocks. They are prohibited by law from doing so.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The Fed does not own any stocks. They are prohibited by law from doing so.
    The Fed is owned by half a dozen the biggest banks in the world, and they are not.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The Fed is owned by half a dozen the biggest banks in the world, and they are not.
    Link?

    Banks do own "stocks" in the Federal Reserve, but those are not ownership stocks but "membership" stocks. If a bank wants to join the Federal Reserve System, they are required to put up ten percent of their assets as collateral. In exchange, they are issued stocks. But those stocks cannot be bought or sold like other stocks. In exchange, they do get paid a six percent dividend for the money they had to surrender. Nor do the stocks come with any voting privileges. They have grant no power to the member banks. It is a "membership fee".
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-18-2018 at 06:48 PM.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  33. #29
    By the end of their time on Jekyll Island, Aldrich and his colleagues had developed a plan for a Reserve Association of America, a single central bank with fifteen branches across the country. Each branch would be governed by boards of directors elected by the member banks in each district, with larger banks getting more votes. The branches would be responsible for holding the reserves of their member banks; issuing currency; discounting commercial paper; transferring balances between branches; and check clearing and collection. The national body would set discount rates for the system as a whole and buy and sell securities.
    https://www.federalreservehistory.or...and_conference

    No doubt you'll dispute the verb "owned". Think you can dispute the verb "controlled"? Think anyone will be impressed by the difference?

    As for whether Fed stock can be sold, or whether you put the word stock in quotation marks, stocks denote ownership (usually temporarily) and if anyone can play with funds on hand, it's the owners.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-18-2018 at 06:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  34. #30
    Article does not say that banks own the Federal Reserve if that is what you were looking for. The banks do get to nominate directors to the regional Federal Reserve regional banks but do not own them. The Board of Directors for the actual Federal Reserve are nominated by the President of the US subject to the approval of Congress.

    As for the Fed buying stocks: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN11Z2WI

    Speaking via video conference with bankers in Kansas City, Yellen said the issue was not a pressing one right now and pointed out the U.S. central bank is currently barred by law from buying corporate assets.

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

    Who owns the Federal Reserve?

    The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone. Although parts of the Federal Reserve System share some characteristics with private-sector entities, the Federal Reserve was established to serve the public interest.

    The Federal Reserve derives its authority from the Congress, which created the System in 1913 with the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act. This central banking "system" has three important features: (1) a central governing board--the Federal Reserve Board of Governors; (2) a decentralized operating structure of 12 Federal Reserve Banks; and (3) a blend of public and private characteristics.

    The Board of Governors in Washington, D.C., is an agency of the federal government. The Board--appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate--provides general guidance for the Federal Reserve System and oversees the 12 Reserve Banks. The Board reports to and is directly accountable to the Congress but, unlike many other public agencies, it is not funded by congressional appropriations. In addition, though the Congress sets the goals for monetary policy, decisions of the Board--and the Fed's monetary policy-setting body, the Federal Open Market Committe--about how to reach those goals do not require approval by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government.

    Some observers mistakenly consider the Federal Reserve to be a private entity because the Reserve Banks are organized similarly to private corporations. For instance, each of the 12 Reserve Banks operates within its own particular geographic area, or District, of the United States, and each is separately incorporated and has its own board of directors. Commercial banks that are members of the Federal Reserve System hold stock in their District's Reserve Bank. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. In fact, the Reserve Banks are required by law to transfer net earnings to the U.S. Treasury, after providing for all necessary expenses of the Reserve Banks, legally required dividend payments, and maintaining a limited balance in a surplus fund.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-18-2018 at 07:03 PM.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Debt hits 18 trillion!
    By Madison320 in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 12-09-2014, 05:37 PM
  2. National Debt To Double From $17.0 Trillion To $34.0 Trillion?
    By alucard13mm in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11-03-2013, 01:25 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-29-2012, 02:03 PM
  4. First to post after National Debt hits 15 trillion
    By willwash in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-16-2011, 04:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •