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Thread: John Bolton: "The Legal Case for Striking North Korea First"

  1. #1

    John Bolton: "The Legal Case for Striking North Korea First"

    He's supposedly in the running to replace McMaster... goody.


    The Winter Olympics’ closing ceremonies also concluded North Korea’s propaganda effort to divert attention from its nuclear-weapons and ballistic-missile programs. And although President Trump announced more economic sanctions against Pyongyang last week, he also bluntly presaged “Phase Two” of U.S. action against the Kim regime, which “may be a very rough thing.”

    CIA Director Mike Pompeo said in January that Pyongyang was within “a handful of months” of being able to deliver nuclear warheads to the U.S. How long must America wait before it acts to eliminate that threat?

    Pre-emption opponents argue that action is not justified because Pyongyang does not constitute an “imminent threat.” They are wrong. The threat is imminent, and the case against pre-emption rests on the misinterpretation of a standard that derives from prenuclear, pre-ballistic-missile times. Given the gaps in U.S. intelligence about North Korea, we should not wait until the very last minute. That would risk striking after the North has deliverable nuclear weapons, a much more dangerous situation.

    In assessing the timing of pre-emptive attacks, the classic formulation is Daniel Webster’s test of “necessity.” British forces in 1837 invaded U.S. territory to destroy the steamboat Caroline, which Canadian rebels had used to transport weapons into Ontario.

    Webster asserted that Britain failed to show that “the necessity of self-defense was instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation.” Pre-emption opponents would argue that Britain should have waited until the Caroline reached Canada before attacking.

    Would an American strike today against North Korea’s nuclear-weapons program violate Webster’s necessity test? Clearly not. Necessity in the nuclear and ballistic-missile age is simply different than in the age of steam. What was once remote is now, as a practical matter, near; what was previously time-consuming to deliver can now arrive in minutes; and the level of destructiveness of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons is infinitely greater than that of the steamship Caroline’s weapons cargo.

    Timing and distance have long been recognized as surrogate measures defining the seriousness of military threats, thereby serving as criteria to justify pre-emptive political or military actions. In the days of sail, maritime states were recognized as controlling territorial waters (above and below the surface) for three nautical miles out to sea. In the early 18th century, that was the farthest distance cannonballs could reach, hence defining a state’s outer defense perimeter. While some states asserted broader maritime claims, the three-mile limit was widely accepted in Europe.

    Technological developments inevitably challenged maritime-state defenses. Over time, many nations extended their territorial claims, but the U.S. adhered to the three-mile limit until World War II. After proclaiming U.S. neutrality in 1939, in large measure to limit the activities of belligerent-power warships and submarines in our waters, President Franklin D. Roosevelt quickly realized the three-mile limit was an invitation for aggression. German submarines were sinking ships off the coast within sight of Boston and New York.

    In May 1941, Roosevelt told the Pan-American Union that “if the Axis Powers fail to gain control of the seas, then they are certainly defeated.” He explained that our defenses had “to relate . . . to the lightning speed of modern warfare.” He scoffed at those waiting “until bombs actually drop in the streets” of U.S. cities: “Our Bunker Hill of tomorrow may be several thousand miles from Boston.” Accordingly, over time, Roosevelt vastly extended America’s “waters of self defense” to include Greenland, Iceland and even parts of West Africa.

    Similarly in 1988, President Reagan unilaterally extended U.S. territorial waters from three to 12 miles. Reagan’s executive order cited U.S. national security and other significant interests in this expansion, and administration officials underlined that a major rationale was making it harder for Soviet spy ships to gather information.

    In short, both Roosevelt and Reagan acted unilaterally to adjust to new realities. They did not reify time and distance, or confuse the concrete for the existential. They adjusted the measures to reality, not the reverse.

    Although the Caroline criteria are often cited in pre-emption debates, they are merely customary international law, which is interpreted and modified in light of changing state practice. In contemporary times, Israel has already twice struck nuclear-weapons programs in hostile states: destroying the Osirak reactor outside Baghdad in 1981 and a Syrian reactor being built by North Koreans in 2007.

    This is how we should think today about the threat of nuclear warheads delivered by ballistic missiles. In 1837 Britain unleashed pre-emptive “fire and fury” against a wooden steamboat. It is perfectly legitimate for the United States to respond to the current “necessity” posed by North Korea’s nuclear weapons by striking first.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-leg...rst-1519862374

    Article is behind paywall, found full text here:

    http://gonzaloraffoinfonews.blogspot...rth-korea.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  3. #2
    Trump adores this guy. He may be the next National Security Adviser.

  4. #3
    Not so long ago, this forum was swimming in Bolton employees.

    ROBBIE MARTIN: Oh, absolutely. And that's part of what's so troubling about Trump supporters -- they have a blind spot for these Bush Era neocons creeping back into what will become his administration. I mean, John Bolton specifically actually helped Trump get elected. First, he ran a PAC against Rand Paul early in the Republic primaries, painting Rand Paul as a pacifist on Iran and there's actually footage of nuclear bombs going off. I think the commercial actually starts with a family eating dinner and just a mushroom cloud exploding in the background.
    PAUL JAY: And just quickly for people who don't know, Rand Paul is the son of Ron Paul, you know, more or less is a fairly consistent Libertarian anti-interventionist. In fact, he said that if John Bolton, who's been rumored to be getting Secretary of State, Paul has said if it is Bolton he'll filibuster to try to stop him from being confirmed in the Senate.
    ROBBIE MARTIN: Yeah, and I hope that he actually follows through on that because it seems like it's a pretty sure bet that John Bolton's going to have some kind of position. I mean, now that Bannon from Breitbart is part of the administration, Breitbart is now running articles trying to tell their audience that Bolton isn't a neocon, that he wasn't instrumental in the Iraq war. And I find that amusing because Breitbart has sort of carried this tradition of being different from sort of the neoconservative, more establishment GOP consensus in DC; now that they're part of the establishment, they're going to run cover and sort of deflect away these criticisms that are, I think, going to be amplified over time with Trump, just between him and his supporters.
    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?...&jumival=17662
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Trump adores this guy. He may be the next National Security Adviser.
    Anti-Iran guy as Secretary of State, anti-Nork guy as national security adviser... what could go wrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Trump adores this guy. He may be the next National Security Adviser.
    tells a lot about trump , i would not let bolton wash my car .

  7. #6
    by Bolton's logic, I have the right to shoot anybody within range of me who has a gun to preempt them from attacking me first. this argument is so absurd

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Not so long ago, this forum was swimming in Bolton employees.
    They've recently picked things back up.

    A quick search of a prominent Bolton employee's posts shows that he/they posted 6 pages worth of posts thus far in the month of March (@ 25 posts per page in the search results) compared to just 2 pages in February and 3 pages each for January and December. The increased posting habits correspond with a new round of news articles proclaiming that McMaster might be replaced by Bolton soon. Prepping the battlefield, perhaps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  9. #8
    The guy's a total nut job.


    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by amartin315 View Post
    by Bolton's logic, I have the right to shoot anybody within range of me who has a gun to preempt them from attacking me first. this argument is so absurd
    Bolton's Law: If there is no threat, imagine one and preempt it.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    The guy's a total nut job.

    Seems like anybody who was sent to the U.N. to represent the United States is just a puppet with somebody's hand up their ass. Looks like they know nothing about reality but instead, just regurgitate the talking points of those who sent them.

    Case in point. Nikki Haley and her telling everybody that Assad used chemical weapons. We have no proof that he did, but he's guilty till proven innocent.

  13. #11

  14. #12

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Anti-Iran guy as Secretary of State, anti-Nork guy as national security adviser... what could go wrong?
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    ROBBIE MARTIN: Oh, absolutely. And that's part of what's so troubling about Trump supporters -- they have a blind spot for these Bush Era neocons creeping back into what will become his administration. I mean, John Bolton specifically actually helped Trump get elected. First, he ran a PAC against Rand Paul early in the Republic primaries, painting Rand Paul as a pacifist on Iran and there's actually footage of nuclear bombs going off. I think the commercial actually starts with a family eating dinner and just a mushroom cloud exploding in the background.

  16. #14
    From AntiWar: By John Bolton's Rational, Pearl Harbor as Legal

    I read the Nuremberg Judgments to condemn aggressive war. Hitler was allegedly guilty of aggressive war when he launched first strikes … The USA hanged some of his followers for following Hitler’s orders … the USA hanged some of his followers for planning and preparing for those aggressive wars before they started, arguing the law must condemn and punish those who planned for such criminal wars in times of peace, or else the planning and preparation would make the temptation irresistible.

    Pearl Harbor, you may recall, was a criminal first strike aggressive war. The USA hung some of those accountable following the Tokyo war crimes trials. … Claiming a first strike is defensive because the guy on the other side is preparing to strike first seems a weak argument for an exception. … the Japanese believed they had to attack Pearl Harbor because US actions threatened to cut off the Japanese oil supply …

    The USA has thousands of nukes on hair trigger. Does this mean other countries are legally entitled to strike the USA because the USA is threatening to strike them? (The USA nuke war plans include first strike planning against almost every other nation on earth.) … 1) it is the only country that has used nukes and thus is known to do so; 2) the USA has repeatedly failed to live up to Treaties it has ratified requiring it to nuclear disarm, and 3) the USA refuses to reject "nuclear first strike," … Bolton’s argument can be used to contend that … other nations ought to be entitled to strike first in a "preventive war."

    Aggressive war is the ultimate war crime, also a crime against peace and crime against humanity. So stated the Chief US Prosecutor at Nuremberg. … nuclear first strike ups that ante … The bestial nature of the weapons themselves negates any claim of legitimacy if used. If Hitler’s aggressive wars were crimes, if Pearl Harbor was a crime, nuclear first strikes are exponentially more odious. …

    John Bolton has a long history of advocating death. Now he advocates the death of law …

    A nation can be a nation of law, or it can be a nation of death. It cannot be both. …
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.



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