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No, I was always right and I am right now.
Somewhat.
Definitely. I flipped 180.
Other.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
The Dangers of Free Trade!
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Answer these questions.
1) If all academic / government manufacturing output numbers are false, what are the true numbers?
2) What is the flaw in the manner in which the production numbers are calculated?
3) Is it possible for manufacturing output to increase while simultaneously decreasing the amount of labor needed?
4) What is more important? Manufacturing employment or manufacturing output?
The point is that the rest of the US is not a trade hub, Singapore is a single city that can support itself as a trade hub, the whole world can't be composed of trade hubs.
People have to do something to earn their keep and pursue happiness, free trade is a nice concept but when other countries engage in trade war and destroy your industries and impoverish your people that isn't free trade.
America is well on it's way to becoming a communist welfare state if we continue to let the rest of the world abuse us, it's almost too late now.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
No, the point is that free trade encourages economic development, while protectionism leads to the opposite.
How is it that the very punishment we impose on Iran...as a punishment, mind you...we think helps us when we impose it on ourselves?
Rather dumb, rather dumb...
Anyway, as for America's descent in socialism, protectionism is a critical part of that; being itself socialism and also encouraging more of the same.
I have an alternative suggestion, a truly crazy idea; let's try free markets.
He said "those industries" so it does not sound like he is just speaking of one company. Curious, do you live outside the US or maybe just live in a major US city away from any form of manufacturing? Maybe you are allot younger than Phil who I gather reading from another thread has been around awhile like I have to notice these things.
Go back 30 years ago I sat in meeting rooms more than once as a new comer being let go with people that had been with the companies 10-40 years since production was being moved offshore. Many cities in my state look like burned out shell of remnants of US manufacturing of companies I was once familiar with that I know for a fact moved offshore.
To this day though I still have family and friends losing their careers having worked in firms 10-20, 30 years losing jobs specifically due to manufacturing moving to India or China.
Last edited by kahless; 03-12-2018 at 07:51 PM.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Well the US spent the equivalent of 4 Trillion on WWII and about 5.6 Tr in the ME.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/study-...ddle-east-asia
There is no spoon.
How so?
Maybe our sanctions will encourage their domestic whatever production.
MIGA?
...and, if this brilliant economic theory is correct, perhaps we ought to ask the rest of the world to sanction us.
Then we could really "create jobs."
Why, stuff that we once imported at very low cost we could produce at higher cost ourselves.
That would be a big win, because the progress of civilization consists of having to spend more labor to produce the same widget, right?
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 03-12-2018 at 07:50 PM.
Not specific companies...whole INDUSTRIES. Furniture making, apparel, textiles. And yes, what I witnessed was a specific result, a causation, of imbalanced trade practices. Period. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I've lived and witnessed it. And, yes, there has always been homelessness. But, there has never been homeless camps in this area. I'm talking upwards of 100 people living in a tent enclaves and many more scattered about. The area went from below 2% unemployment in the late 90's to over 15% in 2010. And that was even after a huge exodus which fudges the unemployment numbers. At one time the areas furniture industry supplied 70% of the nations furniture needs. Now foreign imports provide 75% of the nations needs. The apparel industry tanked after NAFTA and GATT because the apparel business moved to Mexico where it was cheaper to make so that they could compete with China. The textile industry did the same. So don't tell me I don't know what the $#@! I'm talking about. I do. But, ya know, globalism is the way to go. Cheap $#@! for everyone. Yay!
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
The sanctions do tend to backfire, low tariffs are the ideal but it is safer to err on the side of self sufficiency and production than on the side of dependency and consumption.
While not ideal we would be better off that way, there is a reason our enemies attack us with tariffs and subsidies rather than sanctions, we are capable of supplying our own needs and building wealth on our own unlike some nations with insufficient resources.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Automation has replaced a lot of workers. Output up- jobs down. Competition encouraged businesses to get more efficient.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...put-has-grown/
More at link.Most Americans unaware that as U.S. manufacturing jobs have disappeared, output has grown
Manufacturing jobs in the United States have declined considerably over the past several decades, even as manufacturing output – the value of goods and products manufactured in the U.S. – has grown strongly. But while most Americans are aware of the decline in employment, relatively few know about the increase in output, according to a new Pew Research Center survey.
Four of every five Americans (81%) know that the total number of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. has decreased over the past three decades, according to the survey of 4,135 adults from Pew Research Center’s nationally representative American Trends Panel. But just 35% know that the nation’s manufacturing output has risen over the same time span, versus 47% who say output has decreased and 17% who say it’s stayed about the same. Only 26% of those surveyed got both questions right.
One reason Americans may be more familiar with the long-term decline in manufacturing employment than the increase in output is that the job losses have been highly visible, especially in traditionally manufacturing-intensive areas of the Midwest and South.
Manufacturing jobs peaked in 1979 at 19.4 million, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and by 1987 had fallen to 17.6 million. What had been a slow decline in employment accelerated after the turn of the century, and especially during the Great Recession. Manufacturing payrolls bottomed out at fewer than 11.5 million in early 2010, and even though more than 900,000 manufacturing jobs have been added since, overall employment in manufacturing is still at its lowest level since before the U.S. entered World War II.
As a share of the overall workforce, manufacturing has been dropping steadily ever since the Korean War ended, as other sectors of the U.S. economy have expanded much faster. From nearly a third (32.1%) of the country’s total employment in 1953, manufacturing has fallen to 8.5% today.
But that doesn’t mean Americans don’t make things anymore. Last year, U.S. manufacturers made about $5.4 trillion worth of goods and products (in constant 2009 dollars), according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The biggest categories were food, beverages and tobacco products ($817 billion), chemical products ($752 billion) and motor vehicles and parts ($670 billion).
After adjusting for inflation, manufacturing output in the first quarter of this year was more than 80% above its level 30 years ago, according to BLS data. But while U.S. manufacturing output has increased in absolute terms, it still represents a smaller share of the economy than it used to: Manufacturing accounted for about 23% of gross output in 1997 (the first year for which such data are available) but just 18.5% last year.
We lost 95% of manufacturing in the region I live in the last 50 years. There used to be a time where a person could start a family and own a home here at an early age by working in one of these factories. Not any more. The end result of your trade policies has been a high taxes as a result of having to pay for the welfare state since people cannot make a living on service jobs. (not all this is due to offshoring but I would give it a good 80%)
Government is only going to grow larger and taxers higher with your globalism as we lose volunteer services. Since your globalism left us with low paying service industry jobs the young people are working multiple jobs and we lose them for volunteer fire and ambulance. So taxpayers will be footing the bill for that to.
The only people winning at this are the globalists while the rest of us get screwed.
Last edited by kahless; 03-12-2018 at 08:00 PM.
The comment you're replying to didn't ask about manufacturing jobs. It asked about manufacturing output.
What's happening is that the US is now manufacturing more measured in inflation-adjusted dollars than it ever has before, and it's using less labor to do it.
Both parts of that are good things.
As you point out, now we're so rich that we can reallocate some of that labor that we used to have to spend on manufacturing on people serving us in ways when we get old and can't take care of ourselves that we would otherwise not be able to hire people to do.
I fail to see the downside.
Last edited by Superfluous Man; 03-12-2018 at 08:03 PM.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
D.C.'s sanctions against Iran are most certainly forcing the Iranians to be more self-sufficient.
Of course, this means that they're massively poorer than they otherwise would be, because the division of labor makes for greater productivity.
But, we're doing them a favor, evidently...
We'd be better off if the world sanctioned us like we're sanctioning Iran...While not ideal we would be better off that way, there is a reason our enemies attack us with tariffs and subsidies rather than sanctions, we are capable of supplying our own needs and building wealth on our own unlike some nations with insufficient resources.
Incidentally, here's what people living wholey without the horror of the division of labor and trade look like:
I'll bet he's glad foreigners aren't taking his jerbs.
He's got all kinds of jerbs: primarily relating to trying to not starve or be eaten by bears.
But he's self-sufficient, yes sir...
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