View Poll Results: The discussion in this thread changed my mind

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  • No, I was always right and I am right now.

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    0 0%
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Thread: Trump Steel Tariffs Could Kill Up to 40,000 Auto Jobs, Nearly One-Third of Steel Workforce

  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    What you mean to say is: There have been a loss of 55,000 factories and 6,000,000 (actually it's 5.5 million) manufacturing jobs since Bush I.

    Can you spot the difference?
    The products have to come from somewhere and it is not here. It is therefore accurate, the import data shows it and simply following the media articles for the last 30 years of companies specifically announcing they are moving jobs offshore.

    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    You cannot leap to the conclusion that a lack of US protectionism is the singular cause of 6,000,000 manufacturing jobs disappearing. The US economy has added over 40 million jobs in that same time period. Prior to Bush, the pace of manufacturing job loss was only slightly less than it was after him.
    You mean to hide what was going on the government started listing service industry jobs and flipping burgers as manufacturing jobs to bake the data.

    Unbelievable your again denial in this thread of history many of us lived through. This is why I was curious if you live outside the US or maybe just live in a major US city away from any form of manufacturing? Maybe you are allot younger and have not lived through like I, Phil and others here?

    Maybe you do not read the business news for the last 30 years like I have of seeing daily companies moving operations offshore. Go back 30 years ago I sat in meeting rooms more than once as a new comer being let go with people that had been with the companies 10-40 years since production was being moved offshore. Many cities in my state look like burned out shell of remnants of US manufacturing of companies I was once familiar with that I know for a fact moved offshore. To this day though I still have family and friends losing their careers having worked in firms 10-20, 30 years losing jobs specifically due to manufacturing moving to India or China.

    So it is mind blowing you continue to tell me what I lived through did not happen.
    Last edited by kahless; 03-13-2018 at 12:39 PM.



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  3. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    So it is mind blowing you continue to tell me what I lived through did not happen.
    I have never denied your individual experience. You seem to be so invested in your conclusion that you cannot even comprehend what I'm writing. I haven't even denied the loss of jobs within our domestic manufacturing industries. In fact, I've agreed that there has been a loss in jobs.

    Let me make this painfully clear to you. The purpose of an economy is not employment. And it's certainly not employment within specific, protected industry.

    I will return to the most important part of my last post - the part you failed to respond to.

    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature
    It's more likely that trade policy accounts for maybe 10% of this job loss. The biggest factor by leaps and bounds is automation and technology, followed by market inefficiencies.
    What is your response to this?

  4. #303
    Trump Steel Tariffs Could Kill Up to 40,000 Auto Jobs, Nearly One-Third of Steel Workforce
    And if it doesn't, what then?

    In a year's time, if 40,000 new auto jobs have come online, and one third more steelworkers have been hired, what then?

  5. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    And if it doesn't, what then?

    In a year's time, if 40,000 new auto jobs have come online, and one third more steelworkers have been hired, what then?
    Then other jobs that would have been created were not created and efficiency was ignored ultimately making the country poorer as a result?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



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  7. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Then other jobs that would have been created were not created and efficiency was ignored ultimately making the country poorer as a result?
    How could you realistically measure that?

    Any increase in wages and income and employment will have a positive effect throughout the economy.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 03-13-2018 at 01:18 PM.

  8. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    How could you realistically measure that?
    How do you decide who gets the authority in government to make trade fair?

  9. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    How could you realistically measure that?
    That is why what the government does is popular- it has cover. You can see the jobs created by stimulus programs. You do not see what is not created as a result of the government taking resources and allocating them to a given area. They only have what they take. They do not create jobs without eliminating other potential jobs.

    As it relates to tariffs, tariffs cost jobs. You see the jobs that are created through protectionist policy but you do not see the jobs that were not created as a result of protectionist policy.

    Peter Schiff had a good talk on this a couple of weeks ago if you want me to post it. Regardless of your thoughts on the subject, Schiff is entertaining to listen to.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  10. #308
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  11. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    That is why what the government does is popular- it has cover. You can see the jobs created by stimulus programs. You do not see what is not created as a result of the government taking resources and allocating them to a given area. They only have what they take. They do not create jobs without eliminating other potential jobs.

    As it relates to tariffs, tariffs cost jobs. You see the jobs that are created through protectionist policy but you do not see the jobs that were not created as a result of protectionist policy.

    Peter Schiff had a good talk on this a couple of weeks ago if you want me to post it. Regardless of your thoughts on the subject, Schiff is entertaining to listen to.
    It works the same way backwards, the "free" trade side gets credit for LOW LOW prices and nobody sees the jobs that were never created because foreign countries cheat with tariffs and subsidies.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It works the same way backwards, the "free" trade side gets credit for LOW LOW prices and nobody sees the jobs that were never created because foreign countries cheat with tariffs and subsidies.
    Looks like it's time that everyone had a lesson in REAL capitalism, as it seems no one understands it.

    You make a product.
    It is popular.
    People buy it.
    You hire more people to make and sell.
    The price goes down.
    Profits go up.
    More jobs are available.
    Everyone is happy.

    I make a product.
    It is not popular.
    No one buys it.
    No profits.
    I realize I'd better make a better product.
    I start over.

    Over regulating everything, plus taxing it to death kills most businesses.

    Add tariffs to necessary resources for building a product & a business, kills the small/medium businesses much more than it ever hurts a country you're not fond of.

    What it does help in Big Corps- thus Crony "Capitalism", which isn't capitalism at all & just confuses people so they think that capitalism is evil.

    That is called mercantilism & was the major reason for the Revolution.
    There is no spoon.

  13. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Looks like it's time that everyone had a lesson in REAL capitalism, as it seems no one understands it.

    You make a product.
    It is popular.
    People buy it.
    You hire more people to make and sell.
    The price goes down.
    Profits go up.
    More jobs are available.
    Everyone is happy.

    I make a product.
    It is not popular.
    No one buys it.
    No profits.
    I realize I'd better make a better product.
    I start over.

    Over regulating everything, plus taxing it to death kills most businesses.

    Add tariffs to necessary resources for building a product & a business, kills the small/medium businesses much more than it ever hurts a country you're not fond of.

    What it does help in Big Corps- thus Crony "Capitalism", which isn't capitalism at all & just confuses people so they think that capitalism is evil.

    That is called mercantilism & was the major reason for the Revolution.
    Mercantilism is what other countries are doing to us with tariffs and subsidies, it has destroyed countless businesses of every size and killed the opportunity for many that would have been, fighting back until they agree to play fair with low tariffs and no subsidies isn't mercantilism.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    What is your response to this?
    In the post above which you again ignored and spinning as some individual experience bull$#@!. 10% more bull$#@!.

    https://www.epi.org/publication/chin...cing-and-jobs/
    Most of the jobs lost or displaced by trade with China between 2001 and 2013 were in manufacturing industries (2.4 million jobs, or 75.7 percent).
    Among specific industries, the trade deficit in the computer and electronic parts industry grew the most, and 1,249,100 jobs were lost or displaced, 39.6 percent of the 2001–2013 total. As a result, many of the hardest-hit congressional districts were in California, Texas, Oregon, Massachusetts, and Minnesota, where jobs in that industry are concentrated. Some districts in New York, Georgia, and Illinois were also especially hard-hit by trade-related job displacement in a variety of manufacturing industries, including computer and electronic parts, textiles and apparel, and furniture.
    The 3.2 million U.S. jobs lost or displaced by the goods trade deficit with China between 2001 and 2013 were distributed among all 50 states and the District of Columbia, with the biggest net losses occurring in California (564,200 jobs), Texas (304,700), New York (179,200), Illinois (132,500), Pennsylvania (122,600), North Carolina (119,600), Florida (115,700), Ohio (106,400), Massachusetts (97,200), and Georgia (93,700).
    Will post more data later when I have more time.



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  16. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    In the post above which you again ignored and spinning as some individual experience bull$#@!. 10% more bull$#@!.

    https://www.epi.org/publication/chin...cing-and-jobs/



    Will post more data later when I have more time.
    First I see posts using Thomas Piketty graphs. And now this.

    So this is what it has come to on Ron Paul Forums? I don't think anyone needs to read labor union propaganda from a group founded by Robert Reich.


    Eight labor unions made a five-year funding pledge to EPI at its inception: AFSCME, United Auto Workers, United Steelworkers, United Mine Workers, International Association of Machinists, Communications Workers of America, Service Employees International Union, and United Food and Commercial Workers Union.[13] According to EPI, about 29% of its funding between 2005 and 2009 was supplied by labor unions and about 53% came from foundation grants.[2]

  17. #314
    Most of the jobs lost or displaced by trade with China between 2001 and 2013 were in manufacturing industries (2.4 million jobs, or 75.7 percent).
    So? They're only talking about jobs lost from trade policy.

    Among specific industries, the trade deficit in the computer and electronic parts industry grew the most, and 1,249,100 jobs were lost or displaced, 39.6 percent of the 2001–2013 total.
    So? Some manufacturing industries were hit harder than others. What we care about is the aggregate.

    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    bull$#@!. 10% more bull$#@!
    You know.. you're right. The percentage of jobs lost from trade was actually closer to 13%. I apologize for the rounding error.

    https://conexus.cberdata.org/files/MfgReality.pdf

    Still, national manufacturing production, in inflation-adjusted dollars, remains on a steady and long-term growth path. By 2014, the manufacturing economy had completely recovered with record levels of production.
    The persistent growth of manufacturing production, when adjusted for inflation, has been an important and consistent contributor to output in the United States. The notion that manufacturing in the United States is in decline is factually incorrect.
    Over the entire period 2006-2013, manufacturing grew by 17.6 percent, or at roughly 2.2 percent per year
    We believe a contribution to the myth of manufacturing decline is the state of labor usage in manufacturing.
    A closer examination of productivity yields some interesting insights as well. In 1998, the inflation-adjusted output per worker was much lower than it is today. This is due to a variety of factors, chief among them being the automation and information technology advances absorbed by these sectors over this time period.
    Had we kept 2000-levels of productivity and applied them to 2010-levels of production, we would have required 20.9 million manufacturing workers. Instead, we employed only 12.1 million.
    we estimate roughly 750,000 jobs (13.4 percent of lost jobs) were due to direct imports and import substitution
    Manufacturing has continued to grow, and the sector itself remains a large, important, and growing sector of the U.S. economy. Employment in manufacturing has stagnated for some time, primarily due to growth in productivity of manufacturing production processes
    Three factors have contributed to changes in manufacturing employment in recent years: Productivity, trade, and domestic demand. Overwhelmingly, the largest impact is productivity. Almost 88 percent of job losses in manufacturing in recent years can be attributable to productivity growth, and the long-term changes to manufacturing employment are mostly linked to the productivity of American factories.

  18. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    First I see posts using Thomas Piketty graphs. And now this.

    So this is what it has come to on Ron Paul Forums? I don't think anyone needs to read labor union propaganda from a group founded by Robert Reich.

    But Federal Reserve data is just fine?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But Federal Reserve data is just fine?
    Yes. The Federal Reserve actually employs real economists.

    Not people who write $#@! like this.

    Policy proposals[edit]

    In July 2012, EPI and the AFL-CIO, Center for Community Change, Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, National Council of La Raza and SEIU proposed a budget plan titled Prosperity Economics, a counter to the Republican Party's Path to Prosperity budget plan. The Prosperity Economics plan suggests that major public investment in areas like infrastructure is needed to jump-start the economy.[11]
    In response to the debate over the United States fiscal cliff, EPI economist Josh Bivens advocated taxing the rich, writing "Given this rise in [income] inequality, it makes sense that much of the future burden of reducing budget deficits should be borne by those who have benefited the most from economic trends in recent decades."[1
    EVERY free market economist on the planet disagrees with your view of trade.

    The only people who take your view are funded by the AFL-CIO. And La Raza hates free trade as well.
    https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu...&context=blrlj
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 03-13-2018 at 02:34 PM.

  20. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It works the same way backwards, the "free" trade side gets credit for LOW LOW prices and nobody sees the jobs that were never created because foreign countries cheat with tariffs and subsidies.
    You have the wrong outlook on production.

    As Bastiat would propose, you want jobs? Break the railroads every mile so laborers have to unload and reload box cars.

    Jobs do not equal wealth.

    Wealth is hindered when efficiency in production is hindered.

    As a middle class household, here is anecdotal truth for you. I have a higher standard of living than 99.9--------% of humans throughout history. I live better than kings past. My work week is a conservative fifty hours.

    How is it possible?

    Trade.

    I would be wealthier if these bastards would quit distorting and corrupting trade.

    You talk about how poor middle America is doing yet the water fountain at your master's palaces costs about the equivalent of six of my houses.

    But the Chinaman is keeping you down. GMAFB.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  21. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Yes. The Federal Reserve actually employs real economists.
    Real globalist liars and thieves.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    As a middle class household, here is anecdotal truth for you. I have a higher standard of living standard of living than 99.9--------% of humans throughout history. I live better than kings past. My work week is a conservative fifty hours.
    It's interesting that the entire premise of the pro-tariff argument I'm seeing here is based on two incorrect ideas.

    1) That domestic manufacturing has been destroyed
    2) That the middle class has evaporated

    Why are these ideas being bought into? Because the elite (including Trump) push the narrative and it goes unquestioned. Class warfare makes for great politics.

    Just because you say the middle class is worse off does not make it true. It's not so black and white.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2559403

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Horwitz
    Inequality, Mobility, and Being Poor in America
    The conventional narrative that the last generation has seen the rich get richer and the poor get poorer while the middle class gets hollowed out has serious flaws. First, the claims of growing inequality overlook data on income mobility. It is not the same households who are rich and poor each year, and many poor households become richer over time. Second, the claim of middle class stagnation is largely a statistical deception based on an incomplete interpretation of median household income. The middle class has shrunk but so has the percentage of poor households as the percentage of rich households has grown significantly in the last few decades. Third, looking at consumption rather than income enables us to see both the absolute gains of poor US households and the narrowing of the gap with the wealthy. Poor US households are more likely to have basic appliances than the average household of the 1970s, and those appliances are of much higher quality. Together these three points offer a much more optimistic view of the degree of inequality and the ability of the poor to become rich. The picture is not all rosy and a final section discusses the relevance of housing, health care, and education costs to this argument.
    Last edited by fcreature; 03-13-2018 at 02:39 PM.

  23. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The Swiss do not make much of their own, I recall reading a study showing high import duties on items that they do make.

    But I cannot recall it off the top of my head, so I stand corrected.
    They used to have pretty high tariffs back in the mid-90s and then after that they came down.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  25. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    You have the wrong outlook on production.

    As Bastiat would propose, you want jobs? Break the railroads every mile so laborers have to unload and reload box cars.

    Jobs do not equal wealth.

    Wealth is hindered when efficiency in production is hindered.

    As a middle class household, here is anecdotal truth for you. I have a higher standard of living than 99.9--------% of humans throughout history. I live better than kings past. My work week is a conservative fifty hours.

    How is it possible?

    Trade.

    I would be wealthier if these bastards would quit distorting and corrupting trade.

    You talk about how poor middle America is doing yet the water fountain at your master's palaces costs about the equivalent of six of my houses.

    But the Chinaman is keeping you down. GMAFB.
    I hope you enjoy being a collaborator while you can because sooner or later you will be judged for it.
    Cheaper prices are nothing compared to the loss of wages or even worse the loss of our independence and freedom, China and the globalists are well on their way to reducing Americans to debt slaves dependent on others for their needs with no ability to resist the dictates of those who supply their necessities.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    And if it doesn't, what then?

    In a year's time, if 40,000 new auto jobs have come online, and one third more steelworkers have been hired, what then?
    Anti-Trump people will move the goalposts and find something else to bitch about for a week or two that hasn't happened yet and will never end up transpiring.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    I
    Just because you say the middle class is worse off does not make it true.
    It is worth noting that the "middle class" is smaller, but not because people have gotten poorer. More people make higher incomes now.

  28. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    It is worth noting that the "middle class" is smaller, but not because people have gotten poorer. More people make higher incomes now.
    You're right. I've addressed this in my edit.

  29. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    It is worth noting that the "middle class" is smaller, but not because people have gotten poorer. More people make higher incomes now.
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    You're right. I've addressed this in my edit.
    What planet do you two live on? Mars or Pluto?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I hope you enjoy being a collaborator while you can because sooner or later you will be judged for it.


    We are Chinese Communist collaborators because we disagree with increased taxation, wealth destruction, and wealth redistribution here at home. Wait... aren't those the tried-and-true tactics of the Communist? Now I'm starting to get confused.

    We're supposed to be worried about the existential threat that is the Chinese Communist who imposes tariffs on our imports on their own citizens?

    This is what we should worry about when we're dealing with our own government increasingly taxing us in all facets of our lives, illegally spying on all of our communications, waging war over the entire planet, indefinitely detaining it's citizens, confiscating our property, and trying to systematically remove our ability to defend ourselves?

    Yea... it's the Chinese Communist who is coming for your independence and freedom.

  31. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Then other jobs that would have been created were not created and efficiency was ignored ultimately making the country poorer as a result?
    See, this is where I don't follow the whole idea that we've somehow naturally progressed beyond "low skilled' manufacturing jobs as a result of any alleged free-market shift. Where is it set in stone that low skilled jobs *MUST* be replaced by higher skilled jobs? Why is it that higher skilled industries cannot pop up in addition to low skilled industries? There seems to be some assumption that you can either have iron miners or steel producers, but not both, because it's "inefficient". Heaven forbid people figure out that iron mines in Minnesota could ship their iron to Pittsburgh to be made into steel-which could then ship that steel to Tennessee to be made into cars. That sounds pretty efficient to me.

    I've seen numerous threads on this forum denouncing the government-encouraged explosion in college enrollment. College isn't for everyone, maybe vocational/trade/tech schools would be the way to go. But, someone opines about the good ol' days of manufacturing and suddenly we hear "those jobs were inefficient" or "that's archaic" or "why are you crying about the loss of low-skilled jobs?". So, nevermind tech school now?

    I hate to break it to a lot of you guys, but there's really not a career pathway between flipping burgers to working for the Space X program. I'd love to see the circular re-affirmists at Cato or Mises try to explain how that would happen in a free market. So when manufacturing makes up the bulk of opportunity to move up into the middle class, and over time, that's all gutted through "free trade" deals, that's like knocking rungs out of a ladder and laughing when people can't make it to the top.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 03-13-2018 at 03:32 PM.

  32. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But Federal Reserve data is just fine?
    CFR and CATO are also two organizations whose top goals are promotion of so called free trade.



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  34. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    See, this is where I don't follow the whole idea that we've somehow naturally progressed beyond "low skilled' manufacturing jobs as a result of any alleged free-market shift. Where is it set in stone that low skilled jobs *MUST* be replaced by higher skilled jobs? Why is it that higher skilled industries cannot pop up in addition to low skilled industries? There seems to be some assumption that you can either have iron miners or steel producers, but not both, because it's "inefficient". Heaven forbid people figure out that iron mines in Minnesota could ship their iron to Pittsburgh to be made into steel.

    I've seen numerous threads on this forum denouncing the government-encouraged explosion in college enrollement. College isn't for everyone, maybe vocational/trade/tech schools would be the way to go. But, someone opines about the good ol' days of manufacturing and suddenly we hear "those jobs were inefficient" or "that's archaic" or "why are you crying about the loss of low-skilled jobs?".

    I hate to break it to a lot of you guys, but there's really not a career pathway between flipping burgers to working for the Space X program. I'd love to see the circular re-affirmists at Cato or Mises try to explain how that would happen in a free market. So when manufacturing makes up the bulk of opportunity to move up into the middle class, and over time, that's all gutted through "free trade" deals, that's like knocking rungs out of a ladder and laughing when people can't make it to the top.
    Exactly. +1, out of rep.

  35. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Exactly. +1, out of rep.
    Covered.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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