View Poll Results: How Should a Tariff Free Country Be Funded?

Voters
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  • Income tax (whether on individuals, corporations, or states)

    2 10.53%
  • Sales Tax (whether on individuals, corporations, or states)

    4 21.05%
  • Donations (whether on individuals, corporations, or states)

    11 57.89%
  • Other

    8 42.11%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Question for Anti-Tariffists

  1. #1

    Question for Anti-Tariffists

    If you don't like tariffs, how should a government, state, or voluntary political association be funded?
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy



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  3. #2
    Voluntarily.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  4. #3
    Voluntarily?

    But if you're going to fund it through taxation, low tariffs are the best way.

    Trump dipping his toe into the tariff pool will give him leverage to lower our export tariffs that have been shackled on us by other countries. Time to watch "The Art of the Deal" in action..
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  5. #4
    Ah, someone remembers the Harry Browne / Ron Paul platforms which called for abolishing the income tax, and funding the Federal government via excise taxes and (low, flat) tariffs, as the Constitution originally allowed.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Ah, someone remembers the Harry Browne / Ron Paul platforms which called for abolishing the income tax, and funding the Federal government via excise taxes and (low, flat) tariffs, as the Constitution originally allowed.
    Unfortunately common sense isn't common.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Voluntarily?

    But if you're going to fund it through taxation, low tariffs are the best way.

    Trump dipping his toe into the tariff pool will give him leverage to lower our export tariffs that have been shackled on us by other countries. Time to watch "The Art of the Deal" in action..
    So you think Trump's plan is to replace the income tax with tariffs?

    The problem is that none of it matters unless you shrink government spending and Trump is doing the opposite.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    So you think Trump's plan is to replace the income tax with tariffs?
    What? No. That would be awesome, but that isn't what I said at all..
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #8

    Tariff economy - Price of aluminum up

    Make aluminum can collecting great again!



    Price of aluminum up due to tariff.
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Make aluminum can collecting great again!



    Price of aluminum up due to tariff.
    But the recycling fee is based on what a state sets as the deposit.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    But the recycling fee is based on what a state sets as the deposit.
    Fiat can currency. Artificially propped up by gov mandates.
    Last edited by RonZeplin; 03-07-2018 at 04:58 PM.
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    But the recycling fee is based on what a state sets as the deposit.
    Fee was set much greater than market price of aluminum scrap to encourage cleaning up public commons. State's probably haven't adjusted rebate in a while for inflation. Potentially if aluminum prices increase enough the market price on aluminum scrap might surpass the centrally planned price and private recyclers might give you more than the state.
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    If you don't like tariffs, how should a government, state, or voluntary political association be funded?
    You have missed quite a bit , anti tariffists are more likely to support taxes , be open borders and wear dirty underwear while running a cord to the guy next doors house for electric while they post in the squalor of an abandoned basement that smells of rat urine while avoiding paying student loans they spent on Mac n Cheese .

  15. #13
    I’m not morally opposed to a low uniform tariff that is applied at a real low rate across all industries and all imports. But this is not what we have nor what is being discussed. This is about cronyism to benefit one sector of the economy at the expense of all the rest.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  16. #14
    If it were worthwhile, people would pay for it.

    Lotteries, donations, pools for specific programs one wishes to enlist in.

    If tariffs were uniformly 2% and the income tax were abolished that would be leaps and bounds better than what we have now.

    That is not going to happen as spending will not be cut.
    Last edited by kcchiefs6465; 03-07-2018 at 08:12 PM.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    If it were worthwhile, people would pay for it.

    Lotteries, donations, pools for specific programs one whiches to enlist in.

    If tariffs were uniformly 2% and the income tax were abolished that would be leaps and bounds better than what we have now.

    That is not going to happen as spending will not be cut.
    A 2% tariff on everything imported would give you $44 billion to spend. (Imports last year were $1.2 trillion)

    If you want tariffs to replace the income tax, they would need to be to be just over 100%.
    Include your Social Security taxes and you are up to 150%.
    If you want a balanced budget at current spending levels you need a 200% tariff on every single item imported.

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-07-2018 at 07:51 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    So spending increases, taxes are reduced. How is it paid for?
    It's "paid for" by adding to a national debt that will never be repaid. So ultimately it will be those who chose to buy shares in the ability of the government to extract wealth from us by force, who end up eating the losses. And it will be divine justice when it happens.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A 2% tariff on everything imported would give you $44 billion to spend.

    If you want tariffs to replace the income tax, they would need to be to be just over 100%.
    Include your Social Security taxes and you are up to 150%.
    If you want a balanced budget at current spending levels you need a 200% tariff on every single item imported.

    Lol.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    It's "paid for" by adding to a national debt that will never be repaid. So ultimately it will be those who chose to buy shares in the ability of the government to extract wealth from us by force, who end up eating the losses. And it will be divine justice when it happens.
    Fair enough.

    The correction will be that much more painful.

    Also it isn't as if when the house of cards starts to unravel there will not be a dollar dump for actual assets. And while I'm all on board with giving the usurers the finger, not every creditor is going to eat the losses and even while the majority do, still the repercussions of living beyond our means will be felt for years if not decades.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Fair enough.

    The correction will be that much more painful.

    Also it isn't as if when the house of cards starts to unravel there will not be a dollar dump for actual assets. And while I'm all on board with giving the usurers the finger, not every creditor is going to eat the losses and even while the majority do still the repercussions of living beyond our means will be felt for years if not decades.
    That ship sailed so long ago there is little to nothing we can do about it at this point. Back when we were campaigning our asses off for RP there was still a chance. After 8 years of Obama our last chance to avoid default is gone.

    The creditors will eat the losses because they have no other choice. We have nukes and we will still have them after the default.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    That ship sailed so long ago there is little to nothing we can do about it at this point. Back when we were campaigning our asses off for RP there was still a chance. After 8 years of Obama our last chance to avoid default is gone.

    The creditors will eat the losses because they have no other choice. We have nukes and we will still have them after the default.
    Would you expect Congress to limit foreign investment in land and other hard assets within the United States?

    I half expect the whores of Congress to authorize the wholesale of acreage to profit one last time off this funny money scheme. Parcel off thousands of acres to satisfy certain so called obligations and establish their socialist fiefdom.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Would you expect Congress to limit foreign investment in land and other hard assets within the United States?

    I half expect the whores of Congress to authorize the wholesale of acreage to profit one last time off this funny money scheme. Parcel off thousands of acres to satisfy certain so called obligations and establish their socialist fiefdom.
    Any foreign nation that tried to take ownership of territory as a claim on the national debt would learn that Yamamoto wasn't joking. We could simply deny their claims and there's not a damn thing they could do about it. What are the Chinese going to do, maintain divisions in the continental US to maintain their claims? No matter how much they lose, it will not be worth it to them to get saturation nuked over.

  25. #22
    Now this is some compelling discussion!

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Now this is some compelling discussion!
    Zippy did zipsplain to me once again that tariffs would need to be over 100% to fund this government so it hasn't all been for naught.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Any foreign nation that tried to take ownership of territory as a claim on the national debt would learn that Yamamoto wasn't joking. We could simply deny their claims and there's not a damn thing they could do about it. What are the Chinese going to do, maintain divisions in the continental US to maintain their claims? No matter how much they lose, it will not be worth it to them to get saturation nuked over.
    US debt is not backed by anything but the "full faith and credit of the US government" and their ability to tax their citizens. Debt holders have no claims against US assets.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    US debt is not backed by anything but the "full faith and credit of the US government" and their ability to tax their citizens. Debt holders have no claims against US assets.
    We don't have any guarantees that we won't get sold out by Congress on that point. It's fair to presume that when the financing desperation sets in, they will indeed attempt to sell off parts of the nation in order to raise cash, as there has already been movement on China's part to secure land in the US as collateral.

    The bottom line, though, is that there is absolutely no way for a foreign power to secure a land claim in the US, as long as we have EITHER a nuclear arsenal or a nation full of civilians armed to the teeth. So when the time comes, we will simply declare the debt to be odious and default it and that will be that.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    If you don't like tariffs, how should a government, state, or voluntary political association be funded?
    How do you put a baby to sleep with a hammer?


    1.Debt (Theft)
    2.Industry tarrifs/ corporate tax cuts(protectionism)
    4.Fed (Managed Interest Rates)
    5.Taxation with representation

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    You have missed quite a bit , anti tariffists are more likely to support taxes , be open borders and wear dirty underwear while running a cord to the guy next doors house for electric while they post in the squalor of an abandoned basement that smells of rat urine while avoiding paying student loans they spent on Mac n Cheese .
    You forgot Muslim. They all said they're Muslim right here in this thread.
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I’m not morally opposed to a low uniform tariff that is applied at a real low rate across all industries and all imports. But this is not what we have nor what is being discussed. This is about cronyism to benefit one sector of the economy at the expense of all the rest.
    This. Also, it's likely impossible to pay for the current size of government via tariffs. You'd entirely choke off trade first.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    You forgot Muslim. They all said they're Muslim right here in this thread.
    And all those other false Gods too . RPF members will be along shortly though to give tax increases and govt spending increases and other satanic verses positive reinforcement .

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    But the recycling fee is based on what a state sets as the deposit.
    Read the back of the can. Most states don't have a deposit.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

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