Are steel tariffs a bad idea?

[Zippyjuan]

What's going to happen is we are going to be exposed to less taxation because the media and experts are full of $#@! as usual and Trump knows what he is doing.

He is going to negotiate lower tariffs and we will have more free markets as a result. You are just looking at it from one side, wanting to have the freedom to buy from other countries without getting taxed.

Well, maybe some people want the freedom to sell to other countries without being taxed as much.

Maybe actually sticking up for ourselves and telling countries to stop taking advantage of us and give us better deals will actually get us better deals.

Have you thought of that?

Tariffs ARE taxation.

[Zippyjuan]

And selling any company that uses steel like auto manufacturers.

And aluminum users like beer and soda companies.

[dannno]

Tariffs ARE taxation.

Ya and if you read my post, Tariffs go in both directions - this will lead to lower export tariffs and we will be paying less taxes to government overall.

Sorry, but the 'experts' are wrong about this trade war. Just like the 'experts' were wrong when they said candidate Trump shouldn't tweet. He tweeted and he won because of it. $#@! these experts.

It isn't going to lead to more tariffs like most trade wars do, because we have never engaged or negotiated.

By dipping his toe into the pool, we can now negotiate lower tariffs with other countries and lower the overall amount that we are taxed.

[axiomata]

Since the tariff affects raw steel and aluminum, what's to stop fabricators from purchasing formed wide flange beams from abroad?

Instead of making or own beer cans with a tax on the raw aluminum, why not skirt the tax and by finished cans from overseas?

Not only are US consumers hurt by the tax, but potentially, companies that turn raw billets into intermediate stage products might not be able to compete.

[nobody's_hero]

specs beat you by about 3 weeks.

Heh, well I didn't have the money for it then either. Good for specs.

[Zippyjuan]

Since the tariff affects raw steel and aluminum, what's to stop fabricators from purchasing formed wide flange beams from abroad?

Instead of making or own beer cans with a tax on the raw aluminum, why not skirt the tax and by finished cans from overseas?

Not only are US consumers hurt by the tax, but potentially, companies that turn raw billets into intermediate stage products might not be able to compete.

Bush's steel tariff was estimated to have cost 200,000 jobs- and it was limited to just a few countries. Canada- our biggest source- for example, was excluded. Trump wants all countries covered. https://globalnews.ca/news/4063058/b...ump-trade-war/

The tariffs added costs for both businesses and consumers, states a 2003 report from the U.S. International Trade Commission.

According to the report, the tariffs resulted in a host of headaches, including:

49 per cent of steel-consuming firms reported some difficulty obtaining steel,
32 per cent of manufacturers, including automakers and canneries, reported delays in production,
19 per cent of firms passed along price increases to customers,
Overall employment in the sector generally fell or remained flat.

“They lost 200,000 U.S. jobs, it didn’t serve their purpose, it was ruled illegal by the WTO, and it was just a mess,” said Walid Hejazi, an associate professor of international business at the University of Toronto.

Did the 2002 tariffs save steel worker jobs?

[CCTelander]

Bush's steel tariff was estimated to have cost 200,000 jobs.

Can't make an omelette ...

[The Gold Standard]

this will lead to lower export tariffs

So the countries that we slap new tariffs on will lower their tariffs, not raise them, as has been done throughout history. It's brilliant.

[axiomata]

So the countries that we slap new tariffs on will lower their tariffs, not raise them, as has been done throughout history. It's brilliant.

This time it's different. (TM)

[CCTelander]

This time it's different. (TM)

It always is.

[r3volution 3.0]

Any tariffs, like any market interventions, always necessarily reduce global production, and therefore average income: globally.

This is not disputable.

As to whether tariffs reduce national income (i.e the incomes of an arbitrarily selected subset of humanity), they generally do, and very likely will in this case (w/ or w/out retaliation), though this (unlike the above global considerations) is not an absolute law. Regardless, the practical effect of this is to tax money from consumers and give it to steel/aluminum producers. You must understand that, even if the U.S. economy enjoys a net gain (not going to happen), that only means that the unjustified gains of American steel producers will exceed the unjust losses of American steel consumers. In short, in the best case scenario, in which protectionism happens to increase average national income (at the expense of human beings in general), this occurs because the gains of the protected industry exceed the losses of the rest of society. The idea that these tariffs will benefit most Americans (even if they benefit the average American) is absurd.

[TheTexan]

Any tariffs, like any market interventions, always necessarily reduce global production, and therefore average income: globally.

This is not disputable.

As to whether tariffs reduce national income (i.e the incomes of an arbitrarily selected subset of humanity), they generally do, and very likely will in this case (w/ or w/out retaliation), though this (unlike the above global considerations) is not an absolute law. Regardless, the practical effect of this is to tax money from consumers and give it to steel/aluminum producers. You must understand that, even if the U.S. economy enjoys a net gain (not going to happen), that only means that the unjustified gains of American steel producers will exceed the unjust losses of American steel consumers. In short, in the best case scenario, in which protectionism happens to increase average national income (at the expense of human beings in general), this occurs because the gains of the protected industry exceed the losses of the rest of society. The idea that these tariffs will benefit most Americans (even if they benefit the average American) is absurd.

But will my steel stocks go up?

[r3volution 3.0]

But will my steel stocks go up?

Probably, but you'll have to short roadz.

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[r3volution 3.0]

Damn! Three days into the poll and anything other than "Yes" has more than a third of the vote ... on a libertarian Ron Paul website! Political movements are best but an expedient; but most such movements are usually, and all all such movements are sometimes, inexpedient.

Most former Ron voters (nevermind the trolls) are not really laissez faire people.

...more about opposing whoever's in power (contrarian) than any ideology.

[CCTelander]

Most former Ron voters (nevermind the trolls) are not really laissez faire people.

...more about opposing whoever's in power (contrarian) than any ideology.

Sadly, I think this is much more true than some of us would like.