US Considering Broad Curbs On Chinese Imports

[timosman]

If the tariff is not high enough to make steel more expensive, no.

I am having trouble following your logic.

[Zippyjuan]

I am having trouble following your logic.

A business will move when it makes financial sense to do so. If the price of steel does not change, the financial incentive to move production doesn't change because their costs/ benefits are the same. It costs money to make the move so it has to be profitable for them to do so.

[kahless]

Americans last (a contingent of RPF) will have a problem with this.

U.S. Steel to Call Back 500 Employees to Illinois Plant After Trump Announces Tariffs on Foreign Steel
http://www.breitbart.com/economics/2...foreign-steel/

United States Steel announced Wednesday morning that it would call back 500 employees to work at its Granite City, Illinois, plant after President Donald Trump announced that the U.S. would impose tariffs on foreign steel.

[kahless]

From Bush 1 to present, our Country has lost more than 55,000 factories, 6,000,000 manufacturing jobs and accumulated Trade Deficits of more than 12 Trillion Dollars. Last year we had a Trade Deficit of almost 800 Billion Dollars. Bad Policies & Leadership. Must WIN again! #MAGA

[Zippyjuan]

Americans last (a contingent of RPF) will have a problem with this.

U.S. Steel to Call Back 500 Employees to Illinois Plant After Trump Announces Tariffs on Foreign Steel
http://www.breitbart.com/economics/2...foreign-steel/

The tariffs do help a single industry but hurt many others- the ones using steel and aluminum. Bush steel tariffs in 2002 cost an estimated 200,000 jobs.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4063058/b...ump-trade-war/

In 2002, George W. Bush imposed tariffs — which are essentially a tax imposed on imported items — on steel in an attempt to revive the industry in the United States.

“This relief will help steelworkers, communities that depend on steel, and the steel industry adjust without harming our economy,” Bush said in a statement at the time.

The opposite largely occurred as a result: job losses, material shortages, production delays and increased costs.

The tariffs added costs for both businesses and consumers, states a 2003 report from the U.S. International Trade Commission.

According to the report, the tariffs resulted in a host of headaches, including:

49 per cent of steel-consuming firms reported some difficulty obtaining steel,
32 per cent of manufacturers, including automakers and canneries, reported delays in production,
19 per cent of firms passed along price increases to customers,

Overall employment in the sector generally fell or remained flat.

At a hearing, the commission heard that “most steel-consuming firms who testified reported substantial increases in the price of steel after the imposition” of the tariffs.

“They lost 200,000 U.S. jobs, it didn’t serve their purpose, it was ruled illegal by the WTO, and it was just a mess,” said Walid Hejazi, an associate professor of international business at the University of Toronto.

Like Bush, Trump too is trying to claim there will be no cost to the US for the tariffs he wants to impose. There will be.

[TheCount]

That presumes it's somehow cheaper to make steel halfway across the planet and ship it here, than it is to make it here.

If it wasn't, no one would be arguing that we need to impose tariffs on it.

I think it should be self-evident that, if this is the case, it cannot be the outcome of a free market - the cost of shipping alone should make it infeasable.

Circular logic.

Bottom line: if you value free markets and free trade, and have a time horizon beyond 24 hours from now, then the institution of tariffs to block unfree trade is a major step in the right direction.

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength
Tariffs make free trade

[Krugminator2]

Americans last (a contingent of RPF) will have a problem with this.

U.S. Steel to Call Back 500 Employees to Illinois Plant After Trump Announces Tariffs on Foreign Steel
http://www.breitbart.com/economics/2...foreign-steel/

It would be better to just cut each of those people a check for a million dollars than have tariffs.

Cronyism always has someone who wins. In this case, welfare for steelworkers is coming at the expense of everyone else.

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[timosman]

I think what's been added above is a clause you omitted but rings as true as what you did include

Buy silver!

[kahless]

I think what's been added above is a clause you omitted but rings as true as what you did include

I have not changed my beliefs since I started posting here. I believe we should move to a more Libertarian form of limited government envisioned by the Pauls and Libertarians alike within the borders of the US and to the benefit of the people within those borders. The same as the founding fathers clearly stated, for us and our posterity going forward.

When dealing with those outside of our borders that have opposing philosophy to the benefit of their people at the expensive of ours, trying to do the same is moronic if your intentions are to stay true to the beliefs I stated above.

I therefore disagree completely with the Pauls on this specific issue since their policies clearly benefit the globalist elite and other countries at the expense of our own. It saddens me to see the beating they are taking across the net and on social media, but unfortunately in this case they have it coming. When you are taking the side of Communist Chinese Steel slave labor companies over Americans, they have completely lost the moral high ground.

[Zippyjuan]

Would a steel tariff help the US/ China trade deficit? China accounts for less than $2 billion out of the $30 billion worth of steel the US imports each year (roughly seven percent of all our imports). Our trade deficit with China hit $375 billion a year. $2 billion (assuming we stopped importing any steel from China) would be one half of one percent reduction.

Is the issue National Security? Could a war or global crisis cause importers to cut us off from importing steel? 20% of it comes from Canada. They aren't going to halt exports (unless maybe we invade them). Mexico? Europe? Japan? Russia may end their $1 billion we buy from them.

Another security factor is that defense uses lots of metals to produce equipment and armaments. The tariffs will make them more expensive.

Steel exporters may start exporting more finished steel products to avoid the tariffs- making things double worse for US metal product makers who will be facing higher input costs plus more cheap imports to compete against.

[Krugminator2]

I therefore disagree completely with the Pauls on this specific issue since their policies clearly benefit the globalist elite and other countries at the expense of our own. It saddens me to see the beating they are taking across the net and on social media, but unfortunately in this case they have it coming. When you are taking the side of Communist Chinese Steel slave labor companies over Americans, they have completely lost the moral high ground.

And by globalist elite, you mean every single person in the country who buys a car. I don't understand why you feel steel workers are the chosen people. This benefits them, at the expense of everyone else.

Trade isn't some radically libertarian idea. It is actually the single most agreed on topic among economists, ties with rent control. If Trump doesn't make a dramatic change of course, he deserves to lose in 2020.

Tariffs and import quotas usually reduce general economic welfare. (93%)

https://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/02/news-flash-economists-agree.html

[Zippyjuan]

Steel prices rising already. http://www.nwitimes.com/business/lak...857a5fb52.html

Steel prices soaring in anticipation of tariffs


Steel prices are soaring in anticipation of the Section 232 tariffs of 25 percent across the board that the Trump administration said it would impose.

Hot-rolled steel is selling for more than $800 a ton, up from around $650 a ton in December, said Charles Allen Bradford, a steel analyst with Bradford Research, Inc.

Amid of a flood of imports, the steel industry has long suffered from low prices that have crippled profitability, which resulted in widespread layoffs and mill idlings in 2015. Hot-rolled steel prices have dipped to as low as $374 a ton in 2015, according to Steel Benchmarker, a steel industry data site.

Tariffs will raise the price of imports and restrict supply in a boost to domestic steelmakers, Bradford said.

More at link.

[Swordsmyth]

And by globalist elite, you mean every single person in the country who buys a car. I don't understand why you feel steel workers are the chosen people. This benefits them, at the expense of everyone else.

Trade isn't some radically libertarian idea. It is actually the single most agreed on topic among economists, ties with rent control. If Trump doesn't make a dramatic change of course, he deserves to lose in 2020.


https://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009...sts-agree.html

Cheaper prices are chump change compared to the loss of middle class income, the elite and their camp followers are doing quite well under the false "Free Trade" regime they have forced down our throats, so well that their profits skew the economic data while everybody else falls into poverty and debt, and then there is the whole angle of making America dependent on other countries for our needs so we can be subjugated by world government.

[Ender]

And by globalist elite, you mean every single person in the country who buys a car. I don't understand why you feel steel workers are the chosen people. This benefits them, at the expense of everyone else.

Trade isn't some radically libertarian idea. It is actually the single most agreed on topic among economists, ties with rent control. If Trump doesn't make a dramatic change of course, he deserves to lose in 2020.


https://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/02/news-flash-economists-agree.html

Exactly.

REAL freedom is REAL free trade.

[kahless]

Cheaper prices are chump change compared to the loss of middle class income, the elite and their camp followers are doing quite well under the false "Free Trade" regime they have forced down our throats, so well that their profits skew the economic data while everybody else falls into poverty and debt, and then there is the whole angle of making America dependent on other countries for our needs so we can be subjugated by world government.

+1, I would give you rep for that if I could.

[timosman]

The thread title should be - US Considering Broad Curbs On High Quality Chinese Imports -

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength

The Count is a Supporting Member.

[timosman]

Exactly.

REAL freedom is REAL free trade.

GTFO, Zippy's buddy.

[phill4paul]

Steel prices rising already. http://www.nwitimes.com/business/lak...857a5fb52.html



More at link.

Awesome. I bet aluminum is too. I have a friend that has a shipping container worth of a decade worth of crushed aluminum beer cans stuffed into contractor trash bags. It's packed full. He asked me today if i would help him take them down for recycling to make room for some mowers, power washer, etc. I told him to hold off for a bit.

[Swordsmyth]

Update: Reutersis reporting that Trump is planning to impose tariffs on $60 billion of Chinese imports. The tariffs will primarily target technology and telecommunications imports - but would not be expressly limited to these sectors, according to one source.
Politico reported earlier that Trump rejected a plan for imposing $30 billion in tariffs on Chinese imports, saying they weren't big enough.
* * *

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...furniture-toys

[enhanced_deficit]

China Gears Up to Retaliate Against US Tariffs

March 09, 2018 10:43 AM

• Bill Ide
  
  
• Saibal Dasgupta

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BEIJING — China is gearing up to retaliate in response to stiff U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum as Chinese industry associations urge authorities to take "resolute measures." Retaliation from Beijing could contribute to a possible trade war between the world's two biggest economies, analysts said.

https://www.voanews.com/a/china-gear...s/4287712.html