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  1. #1

    L.A.'s Massive Homeless Problem

    L.A.'s Massive Homeless Problem

    Homelessness affects the lives of all Angelenos, not just those forced to live on the streets. And it does so almost daily, in ways large and small.

    Consider the pairs of thick gloves that George Abou-Daoud has stashed inside the nine restaurants he owns on the east side of Hollywood. When a homeless person accosts his customers, Abou-Daoud says, he can no longer count on the police for help; unless there’s an imminent threat to safety, he contends, they don’t respond quickly and can’t just haul the person away. So he’s had to take matters into his own hands, literally, by physically ejecting problematic homeless people himself. That’s why he has the gloves — to keep his hands clean.

    Abou-Daoud’s gloves are a particularly bleak symbol of the relationship between the homeless and the non-homeless. But everyone’s got a story of one sort or another. Day in and day out, Metro riders step into trains with homeless people on them — often visibly disturbed or threatening, prompting nervous passengers to edge away or change cars. In downtown L.A., shop owners worry that customers will opt for suburban malls to avoid the panhandlers and glassy-eyed wanderers. In Venice, besieged businesses have banded together to share the cost of security guards and cleanup crews to clear garbage, bedding or worse from the sidewalks.

    Across the city, drivers exiting freeways routinely encounter homeless people on the off-ramps shuffling from window to window requesting money. Libraries, train stations and public parks have become refuges for homeless people. In many residential neighborhoods and commercial districts, encampments have become a seemingly immutable fact of life.

    As homelessness spreads across Los Angeles County — the official tally shows a 46% increase from 2013 to 2017 — it is drawing two conflicting responses, at times from the same people. There’s sympathy and a desire to help, but there’s also a sense of being invaded and perhaps even endangered — in terms of both physical safety and public health (see, for example, the state of emergency California declared last year over a hepatitis A outbreak that spread among the homeless, or the Skirball blaze that was sparked by a cooking fire in a homeless encampment). There’s an unavoidable, often unspoken, fear that the city around us may be in a state of irreversible decline, and a suspicion on the part of some that the rights of homeless people have trumped the rights of everyone else.

    The increasing visibility of homelessness and destitution contributes to the uneasy feeling that the problem is closing in on everyone. It’s also a daily reminder that the values and systems to which we cling — liberty, democracy, free enterprise, the social contract that’s supposed to hold a community together, the safety net that is supposed to protect the most vulnerable — haven’t steered us out of this mess. Nor have our leaders.

    It’s not surprising that some Angelenos are angry or even afraid. But we need to channel those concerns into constructive action.

    The city and county must find a way to balance effectively the needs and rights of homeless people against the demands and expectations of everyone else. Respecting the rights of homeless people doesn’t mean consigning the sidewalks and parks permanently to tents and shopping carts, just as respecting the rights of property owners doesn’t mean rousting the unsheltered and shuffling them from one neighborhood to the next. Instead, what is needed are reasonable compromises that protect the health, safety and basic needs of homeless people while ensuring the community’s ability to function day in and day out. That, in turn, requires residents and businesses not just to accept the presence of homeless people, but to have a stake in getting them off the streets and into housing. (They should start by remembering that only a minority — though a visible one — of homeless people are mentally ill or drug addicted; many are simply down on their luck and pose no threat to others.)

    Some compromises have already been laid out. What’s often been missing, though, is the political courage necessary to implement them. For example, the L.A. City Council adopted an ordinance two years ago that requires homeless people to abandon their carts and put most of their possessions in storage once the government has made a storage facility available nearby. The city, however, has been able to open only two such facilities, and only one — on skid row — has available storage space. Community opposition has killed or hamstrung projects in San Pedro and Venice.

    Similarly, faced with mounting complaints about homeless people sleeping in their cars and campers, the council adopted an ordinance in late 2016 imposing a ban on people lodging in their vehicles overnight in residential areas. But the city has been far too slow to follow through on the safe parking areas it called for on property owned by churches, nonprofits and public agencies. That was at the heart of the compromise, and without it, the problem is merely shifted to commercial and industrial zones. Today, there is just one small safe parking lot in the city, at a church in South Los Angeles.

    For more: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/edito...htmlstory.html



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  3. #2
    Jan2017
    Member

    Build more parking lots and parking garage structures . . . (?)

    with 9 billion h. sapiens on the planet by 2050-ish,
    all those people will need a place to park their bedroom. Jus' sayin'

  4. #3
    As homelessness spreads across Los Angeles County — the official tally shows a 46% increase from 2013 to 2017 — it is drawing two conflicting responses, at times from the same people. There’s sympathy and a desire to help, but there’s also a sense of being invaded and perhaps even endangered — in terms of both physical safety and public health
    They ignore the fact that this is politically driven. The leftists have been conditioned to always accept and defend the "homeless" by the manipulators at the top who want to break down society into a bunch of obedient, ignorant, dependent sheep. Those same mundanes then have the "conflicting" reality that their cities are being destroyed. Many of them simply flee, to set up a new socialist paradise someplace else. They don't realize that the real problem is them.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  5. #4
    Over inflated property values.

    Nothing the Big One won't fix.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #5
    46% increase from 2013 to 2017
    Holy $#@!.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #6
    What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?
    Absolutely. The free market. Housing regulations are the cause of much of the problem.

    http://www.csus.edu/indiv/c/chalmers...melessness.pdf

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?
    The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.
    "If you ignore them, maybe they will just go away!"

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "If you ignore them, maybe they will just go away!"
    If you abolish the government, they will get a job.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    If you abolish the government, they will get a job.
    I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

    If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-06-2018 at 01:46 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.
    Too bad you don't believe in the free market.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Too bad you don't believe in the free market.
    I believe in it more than you do. You probably think because you believe in open borders with a welfare state you are super free market or something..

    Well guess what? Somebody who ACTUALLY wants a free market more than you and thinks a little bit more carefully than you is going to prefer protecting our borders so that we can preserve what vestiges of freedom we have left, and hope that we can work towards a free market some day.

    Opening our borders and completely sabotaging our country by sucking in a bunch of commies with our welfare program is free market suicide. That's what you support. Free market suicide.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I believe in it more than you do. You probably think because you believe in open borders with a welfare state you are super free market or something..

    Well guess what? Somebody who ACTUALLY wants a free market more than you and thinks a little bit more carefully than you is going to prefer protecting our borders so that we can preserve what vestiges of freedom we have left, and hope that we can work towards a free market some day.

    Opening our borders and completely sabotaging our country by sucking in a bunch of commies with our welfare program is free market suicide. That's what you support. Free market suicide.
    Yeah, you believe in a free market so much you voted for an anti-free market protectionist who vowed from the beginning to massively interfere in the economy and calls for crippling tariffs that will wreck the American economy. How "free market" of you.

    Oh, and you're so free market that you are threatened by the free exchange of capital, both human and goods and services, across state lines that you want to erect a massive police state to hunt down and imprison millions of people for acting on a freer market than you would like. How dare people engage in free exchanges of wealth and location without your express permission. How "free market" of you to assault, cage, and kill people and seize their property for engaging in economic exchanges you do not approve of. How "libertarian" of you. I mean, it makes absolute sense that erecting a massive police state with the power to seize the property of and imprison millions of people while building a militarized wall along the nation's border will make us more free. After all, we all know that living in a national prison makes us "free."

    No, you do not believe in free markets because the exact moment the market does something you don't like you have Big Daddy Police State stomp and regulate the market as heavily as possible.

    You are just another useless Progressive who hates free markets, free will, and free men. This is obvious when you label the free market "suicide." You're just anothe rbig government stooge.

    And what is more, you're an ignorant fool. If you really hated the welfare state then you would be all for open borders. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that as immigration rises the support for welfare states drastically decreases among the native population.

    Conservative and libertarian critics of immigration like to cite Milton Friedman’s observation that “[y]ou cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state,” which co-blogger Ken Anderson recently endorsed. The fear is that, given relatively open borders, immigrants from poor countries will flock to wealthy ones and undermine their economies by consuming huge amounts of welfare benefits.

    The greater ethnic diversity of the US is one of the main reasons why we have a smaller welfare state than most European nations.

    I am a great admirer of Friedman and his scholarship. But he was not an expert on immigration, and, as far as I can tell, he never systematically studied the evidence on the impact of immigration on political support for the welfare state. That evidence overwhelmingly shows that ethnic heterogeneity greatly reduces support for welfare state spending because voters are less willing to support welfare programs if they believe that a large percentage of the money is going to members of a different racial or ethnic group.

    ...Because people are most likely to support welfare programs when the money goes to recipients who are “like us,” immigration actually undermines the welfare state rather than reinforces it. Even if the new immigrants themselves vote for expanded welfare state benefits (which is far from always a given), their political impact is likely to be offset by that of native-born citizens who are generally wealthier, more numerous, and more likely to vote and otherwise participate in politics.

    This feedback effect creates a difficult dilemma for liberals and leftists who support immigration but also want to expand the welfare state. Paul Krugman calls the welfare-immigration tradeoff an “agonizing issue” for liberal Democrats. But for libertarians and other supporters of economic liberty, immigration is a win-win game. It is both an important exercise of economic freedom in its own right, and has the secondary effect of constraining the welfare state.

    ...Moreover, it is no more bigoted to oppose welfare state benefits because they go to members of other ethnic groups than to support them because they go to members of your group. For example, Kinder and Kam find that strongly “ethnocentric” white voters are more likely to support Social Security benefits than other whites, because they see it as a program that primarily benefits non-Hispanic whites like themselves. In relatively homogeneous states, voters tend to support higher levels of welfare benefits than they would otherwise because they see them as supporting members of their own ethnic or racial group. In more diverse societies, the public supports relatively lower benefits because of a perception that too much of the money goes to racial or ethnic “others.” The former attitude is no less biased than the latter.

    https://fee.org/articles/if-you-hate...e-immigration/
    The reality is that economic freedom and free markets don't just decrease the perceived need for welfare programs as the free exchange of capital -both human, goods, and services- goes from where there is too much of it to where it is in high demand, thus benefiting all those involved, but free markets also lower the desire in native populations to engage in expansive welfare programs that might benefit those who appear different from the majority. The free exchange of human capital -so called "open borders"- therefore actual kills the welfare state and makes people more free and prosperous.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?
    Is there a free market?

    I think that if there was this would not be a question.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  18. #16



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  20. #17
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-28-2018 at 01:33 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  21. #18
    Seriously Zip?

  22. #19
    George Carlin - The War on Homelessness


    We have no War on Homelessness because there is no profit in it.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    We have no War on Homelessness because there is no profit in it.
    That is a pretty stupid statement. I guess he has never heard of the War on Poverty. The country spends a fortune on government programs.

    The idea that the US doesn't spend a lot on social programs is just false.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    That is a pretty stupid statement. I guess he has never heard of the War on Poverty. The country spends a fortune on government programs.

    The idea that the US doesn't spend a lot on social programs is just false.
    Good grief dude, it was supposed to be a humorous anecdote, not a meaningful contribution. Just something to keep people talking. Did you watch the video?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Good grief dude, it was supposed to be a humorous anecdote, not a meaningful contribution. Just something to keep people talking. Did you watch the video?
    No. I have seen his stuff. He is an unfunny idiot. He spends all his time railing against business.

  26. #23
    BTW,, I was homeless in L.A. about 30 years ago.. and some may have changed..

    It was a good place to get out of.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  27. #24
    As far as homeless,, aside from jobs,,

    Background checks affect rentals too.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  29. #25
    I see the Downtown LA homeless epidemic fairly consistently and its extremely depressing. You'll be driving in a decent area and all of a sudden its a homeless wild west, its like no rules exist where they are.
    THE SQUAD of RPF
    1. enhanced_deficit - Paid Troll / John Bolton book promoter
    2. Devil21 - LARPing Wizard, fake magical script reader
    3. Firestarter - Tax Troll; anti-tax = "criminal behavior"
    4. TheCount - Comet Pizza Pedo Denier <-- sick

    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF =troll:

    Who spends this much time copy/pasting the same recycled links, photos/talking points.

    7 yrs/25k posts later RPF'ers still respond to this troll

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    its like no rules exist where they are.
    What rules should exist?

    I mean,,should they be herded someplace.. contained someplace.??
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    What rules should exist?

    I mean,,should they be herded someplace.. contained someplace.??
    Rules that people agree on, exist.

    I don't know what the solution is, perhaps a non-profit outside of the city. But if you're insinuating that by saying rules, I mean captivity, you're nuts.
    THE SQUAD of RPF
    1. enhanced_deficit - Paid Troll / John Bolton book promoter
    2. Devil21 - LARPing Wizard, fake magical script reader
    3. Firestarter - Tax Troll; anti-tax = "criminal behavior"
    4. TheCount - Comet Pizza Pedo Denier <-- sick

    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF =troll:

    Who spends this much time copy/pasting the same recycled links, photos/talking points.

    7 yrs/25k posts later RPF'ers still respond to this troll

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Rules that people agree on, exist.

    I don't know what the solution is, perhaps a non-profit outside of the city. But if you're insinuating that by saying rules, I mean captivity, you're nuts.
    By "Rules" I mean laws. which there are an over abundance already.

    Human beings have a right to life. A right to be alive.. A right to be.

    Just because it hurts the conscience of those who see the poor,, does not make it a crime to be poor,, nor is it a requirement to have an address or home.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  33. #29
    It just goes to show you rich liberals do not want to spend their own money to solve problems. There are wealthy people all around the LA basin. Do you see any of them offering a bed or a job to someone off the street?
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    It just goes to show you rich liberals do not want to spend their own money to solve problems. There are wealthy people all around the LA basin. Do you see any of them offering a bed or a job to someone off the street?

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