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Thread: L.A.'s Massive Homeless Problem

  1. #1

    Default L.A.'s Massive Homeless Problem

    L.A.'s Massive Homeless Problem

    Homelessness affects the lives of all Angelenos, not just those forced to live on the streets. And it does so almost daily, in ways large and small.

    Consider the pairs of thick gloves that George Abou-Daoud has stashed inside the nine restaurants he owns on the east side of Hollywood. When a homeless person accosts his customers, Abou-Daoud says, he can no longer count on the police for help; unless there’s an imminent threat to safety, he contends, they don’t respond quickly and can’t just haul the person away. So he’s had to take matters into his own hands, literally, by physically ejecting problematic homeless people himself. That’s why he has the gloves — to keep his hands clean.

    Abou-Daoud’s gloves are a particularly bleak symbol of the relationship between the homeless and the non-homeless. But everyone’s got a story of one sort or another. Day in and day out, Metro riders step into trains with homeless people on them — often visibly disturbed or threatening, prompting nervous passengers to edge away or change cars. In downtown L.A., shop owners worry that customers will opt for suburban malls to avoid the panhandlers and glassy-eyed wanderers. In Venice, besieged businesses have banded together to share the cost of security guards and cleanup crews to clear garbage, bedding or worse from the sidewalks.

    Across the city, drivers exiting freeways routinely encounter homeless people on the off-ramps shuffling from window to window requesting money. Libraries, train stations and public parks have become refuges for homeless people. In many residential neighborhoods and commercial districts, encampments have become a seemingly immutable fact of life.

    As homelessness spreads across Los Angeles County — the official tally shows a 46% increase from 2013 to 2017 — it is drawing two conflicting responses, at times from the same people. There’s sympathy and a desire to help, but there’s also a sense of being invaded and perhaps even endangered — in terms of both physical safety and public health (see, for example, the state of emergency California declared last year over a hepatitis A outbreak that spread among the homeless, or the Skirball blaze that was sparked by a cooking fire in a homeless encampment). There’s an unavoidable, often unspoken, fear that the city around us may be in a state of irreversible decline, and a suspicion on the part of some that the rights of homeless people have trumped the rights of everyone else.

    The increasing visibility of homelessness and destitution contributes to the uneasy feeling that the problem is closing in on everyone. It’s also a daily reminder that the values and systems to which we cling — liberty, democracy, free enterprise, the social contract that’s supposed to hold a community together, the safety net that is supposed to protect the most vulnerable — haven’t steered us out of this mess. Nor have our leaders.

    It’s not surprising that some Angelenos are angry or even afraid. But we need to channel those concerns into constructive action.

    The city and county must find a way to balance effectively the needs and rights of homeless people against the demands and expectations of everyone else. Respecting the rights of homeless people doesn’t mean consigning the sidewalks and parks permanently to tents and shopping carts, just as respecting the rights of property owners doesn’t mean rousting the unsheltered and shuffling them from one neighborhood to the next. Instead, what is needed are reasonable compromises that protect the health, safety and basic needs of homeless people while ensuring the community’s ability to function day in and day out. That, in turn, requires residents and businesses not just to accept the presence of homeless people, but to have a stake in getting them off the streets and into housing. (They should start by remembering that only a minority — though a visible one — of homeless people are mentally ill or drug addicted; many are simply down on their luck and pose no threat to others.)

    Some compromises have already been laid out. What’s often been missing, though, is the political courage necessary to implement them. For example, the L.A. City Council adopted an ordinance two years ago that requires homeless people to abandon their carts and put most of their possessions in storage once the government has made a storage facility available nearby. The city, however, has been able to open only two such facilities, and only one — on skid row — has available storage space. Community opposition has killed or hamstrung projects in San Pedro and Venice.

    Similarly, faced with mounting complaints about homeless people sleeping in their cars and campers, the council adopted an ordinance in late 2016 imposing a ban on people lodging in their vehicles overnight in residential areas. But the city has been far too slow to follow through on the safe parking areas it called for on property owned by churches, nonprofits and public agencies. That was at the heart of the compromise, and without it, the problem is merely shifted to commercial and industrial zones. Today, there is just one small safe parking lot in the city, at a church in South Los Angeles.

    For more: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/edito...htmlstory.html



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  3. #2

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    Build more parking lots and parking garage structures . . . (?)

    with 9 billion h. sapiens on the planet by 2050-ish,
    all those people will need a place to park their bedroom. Jus' sayin'

  4. #3

    Default

    As homelessness spreads across Los Angeles County — the official tally shows a 46% increase from 2013 to 2017 — it is drawing two conflicting responses, at times from the same people. There’s sympathy and a desire to help, but there’s also a sense of being invaded and perhaps even endangered — in terms of both physical safety and public health
    They ignore the fact that this is politically driven. The leftists have been conditioned to always accept and defend the "homeless" by the manipulators at the top who want to break down society into a bunch of obedient, ignorant, dependent sheep. Those same mundanes then have the "conflicting" reality that their cities are being destroyed. Many of them simply flee, to set up a new socialist paradise someplace else. They don't realize that the real problem is them.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  5. #4

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    Over inflated property values.

    Nothing the Big One won't fix.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #5

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    46% increase from 2013 to 2017
    Holy $#@!.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #6

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    What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?
    Absolutely. The free market. Housing regulations are the cause of much of the problem.

    http://www.csus.edu/indiv/c/chalmers...melessness.pdf
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?
    The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.
    "If you ignore them, maybe they will just go away!"
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "If you ignore them, maybe they will just go away!"
    If you abolish the government, they will get a job.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    If you abolish the government, they will get a job.
    I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

    If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-06-2018 at 01:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  13. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."" [and collect welfare]
    Exactly.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Exactly.
    lol, many would not or could not

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marenco View Post
    The city and county must find a way to balance effectively the needs and rights of homeless people against the demands and expectations of everyone else. Respecting the rights of homeless people doesn’t mean consigning the sidewalks and parks permanently to tents and shopping carts, just as respecting the rights of property owners doesn’t mean rousting the unsheltered and shuffling them from one neighborhood to the next. Instead, what is needed are reasonable compromises that protect the health, safety and basic needs of homeless people while ensuring the community’s ability to function day in and day out. That, in turn, requires residents and businesses not just to accept the presence of homeless people, but to have a stake in getting them off the streets and into housing. (They should start by remembering that only a minority — though a visible one — of homeless people are mentally ill or drug addicted; many are simply down on their luck and pose no threat to others.)
    There's a different perspective in a recent Reason article, 6 Points to Consider in the Debate About Homelessness
    Third, let's realize that homelessness isn't primarily a problem about a lack of homes. Jim Palmer, president of the Orange County Rescue Mission, told me that 58 percent of the people who sought services from the mission in 2016 and 2017 self-identify as having a chemical dependency. And 33 percent stated that they have a mental illness.
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  16. #15

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    Seriously Zip?

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

    If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).
    Social Support Structures should come from a voluntary society, not government. It does not happen if the society is no longer benevolent.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    lol, many would not or could not
    Currently no, because government regulations do not allow people to pay them less than minimum wage and they have to have certain working conditions.

    Once all that is gone, and they are hungry, they will do some work. Doesn't mean they will get a 9-5, but they will do something.

    Those who truly can't, well, everybody else will have a huge bonus from not paying income taxes and we can help them out.

    It won't be perfect, but it will be far better than what we have now.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?
    Is there a free market?

    I think that if there was this would not be a question.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."
    Just can't earn enough negative rep can you,,

    Can't help.

    Could this be proof that AI has no soul?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Just can't earn enough negative rep can you,,

    Can't help.

    Could this be proof that AI has no soul?
    Its / their / his Soul was confiscated due to delinquent payments on an outstanding loan for which the Soul was offered as collateral. Probably Student Debt.

    ---

    Back on point.

    Maybe the real problem here is that the jobs do not exist? Maybe the qualifications for the existing jobs are too high? Maybe the wages are too low? Maybe those middle class jobs have gone overseas where they can be low paying jobs? Maybe Student Debt caused them to go into bankruptcy? Maybe what caused all three was a Fiat Currency that bled out the value which screwed both the employers and employees? Maybe taxes were too high, and used to fund Welfare programs that removed incentives to work and pay honest wages? Maybe the real problem is those who profit by stealing the value of currency? Maybe these people have been denied any path to a positive self identity? Maybe the homeless are the victims and we react by telling them to blame themselves and putting them on addictive mentally destabilizing drugs? Maybe Illegal Immigration brought in more people than there were jobs for? Maybe they dont have what it takes to be a Obedient Corporate Slave that can not pump out numbers that their bosses expect? Maybe the lack of a Free Market allowed big companies to get government subsidies at the expense of creating more homeless people? Maybe they could not afford Medical Care and had no insurance and were crushed by Medical Debt and had their wages confiscated? Maybe these people have been convicted of felony drug crimes and are forbidden from getting a job due to their Criminal Records? Maybe all these businesses that cant hire more people are all somehow magically mismanaged? Maybe we should work on a Vaccine for Homelessness? Maybe we should be looking for ways to help people provide for themselves instead of having 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds Prison Population? Maybe we have too damn many Laws? Maybe Law Enforcement is too efficient at creating criminals with a 90% recidivism rate (repeated incarceration)? Maybe the unemployed are victims of Race Discrimination and are not being hired because they are white men? Maybe some people are truly incapable of working? Maybe there are homeless children and elderly too, as well as handicapped, mentally challenged, disabled, drug addicts, victims of Public Education, or are unable to work for a large number of legitimate reasons? Maybe the obligations that society has to the individual has not been met? Maybe we arent Voting hard enough? Maybe Zippy has absolutely no moral qualm with stealing from those who literally have absolutely nothing left? Maybe all these things contribute to the overall problem?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

    If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).
    Actually, yes. The majority of homeless are bums by choice. Very few want to turn their lives around. Even the fraction that want to, tell others and themselves they want to, can lapse if they are not wholly committed to leaving the life that put them on the street. That commitment is only apprehended by a daily personal battle for every scrap of self-respect there is to grab. "Help" is what some shelters offer, but there is no helping the vast majority who remain bums by choice. You have no idea what you're talking about.

    And yes, jobs exist - even for felons.
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 03-06-2018 at 05:00 PM.

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.
    Too bad you don't believe in the free market.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  24. #23

    Default

    George Carlin - The War on Homelessness


    We have no War on Homelessness because there is no profit in it.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

    If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).
    I don't know what the profile is of someone living on the streets. But anyone wants to not live on the streets has that option. Between section 8 housing, food stamps and welfare, a person living off of the government makes what an upper middle class person does in Mexico.

    In the context of human history, there is no one who is bad off in the 2018 United States. All of those people who are homeless in California could find lower cost housing just about anyplace else. Helping those people is only encouraging bad behavior. Just as the person in Ron Paul's debate said, Let em die. (They of course won't die. They will magically find a place if they have to.)

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    We have no War on Homelessness because there is no profit in it.
    That is a pretty stupid statement. I guess he has never heard of the War on Poverty. The country spends a fortune on government programs.

    The idea that the US doesn't spend a lot on social programs is just false.

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    That is a pretty stupid statement. I guess he has never heard of the War on Poverty. The country spends a fortune on government programs.

    The idea that the US doesn't spend a lot on social programs is just false.
    Good grief dude, it was supposed to be a humorous anecdote, not a meaningful contribution. Just something to keep people talking. Did you watch the video?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Good grief dude, it was supposed to be a humorous anecdote, not a meaningful contribution. Just something to keep people talking. Did you watch the video?
    No. I have seen his stuff. He is an unfunny idiot. He spends all his time railing against business.

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post

    And yes, jobs exist - even for felons.
    Some and rarely.

    and I remember I had divine intervention on my account. for a time.

    You see NICS is more than guns..

    I am too dangerous to INSURE. and insurance is mandatory in most places..

    Background Check=Blackball
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Too bad you don't believe in the free market.
    I believe in it more than you do. You probably think because you believe in open borders with a welfare state you are super free market or something..

    Well guess what? Somebody who ACTUALLY wants a free market more than you and thinks a little bit more carefully than you is going to prefer protecting our borders so that we can preserve what vestiges of freedom we have left, and hope that we can work towards a free market some day.

    Opening our borders and completely sabotaging our country by sucking in a bunch of commies with our welfare program is free market suicide. That's what you support. Free market suicide.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Some and rarely.

    and I remember I had divine intervention on my account. for a time.

    You see NICS is more than guns..

    I am too dangerous to INSURE. and insurance is mandatory in most places..

    Background Check=Blackball
    You might have to work for 12-16 bucks an hour, but its not impossible. Plenty of contractors will pay cash, no application bull$#@!. Flooring sucks, but its better than roofing. Painters don't give a $#@!. There's maintenance jobs for hotels and apartments, which LA, I'm sure, has no shortage of. If they can read a tape, they can get a job. Their problem lies in applying to box stores and even fast food, which will not take felons.

    I get it though, any company that bothers with background checks won't take you. 99% of the time.
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 03-06-2018 at 05:34 PM.

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