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Thread: Trump Bans Bump Stocks [UPDATE: struck down by SCOTUS]

  1. #511
    Walgreens, CVS join Walmart, Kroger in asking shoppers not to openly carry guns in stores

    Published 4 hours agoUpdated an hour ago
    Lauren Thomas@laurenthomas


    Key Points

    • Walgreens and CVS join Walmart and Kroger in asking shoppers not to openly carry guns in stores.
    • This follows a wave of deadly shootings in the U.S.
    • Walmart CEO Doug McMillon earlier this week asked other retailers to act as well.



    Drugstore chains Walgreens Boots Alliance and CVS Health on Thursday joined Walmart and Kroger in asking shoppers not to openly carry guns in their stores, even in states where “open carry” is allowed, unless they are authorized law enforcement officers.

    “We are joining other retailers in asking our customers to no longer openly carry firearms into our stores other than authorized law enforcement officials,” Walgreens said in an emailed statement.
    CVS posted a similar message to its corporate Twitter account.

    Kroger on Tuesday evening said that it would begin asking customers not to openly carry guns in stores, and that it recognized “the growing chorus of Americans who are no longer comfortable with the status quo and who are advocating for concrete and common sense gun reforms.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/05/walg...arry-guns.html



    Related

    Kroger asks customers not to openly carry guns in stores
    3 hours ago - (WSET)

    Kroger CEO: Trump Presidency is Good for Business
    Kroger could haul in huge gains with Trump tax cut
    bizjournals
    Dec 14, 2016 - Kroger Co. stands to get a healthy boost to its profits if Donald Trump follows through with plans to significantly lower the corporate tax rate.





    Kroger is big time believer in MAGA leadership, so this is not surprising that they don't want to be on bad side of MAGA.
    These developments should help MAGA pull many liberal, Dem votes that should more than compensate for any lost NRA/GOA 2nd amenders , GOP conservative votes.



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  3. #512
    'Red flag' laws will hurt red states that support Trump

    By Jason S. Johnson, opinion contributor — 09/24/19

    Extreme risk protection orders (ERPOs), colloquially known as “red flag” laws, aim to disarm potential mass shooters before they carry out their deadly crimes. Following recent attacks in Texas and Ohio, adopting a federal red flag statute has attracted supporters from both parties, including Sens. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.). It seems like an easy win. Who would oppose keeping firearms away from those suffering from homicidal ideation?
    Yet lost in the clamor for stricter gun control are the unintended consequences of red flag laws. Already enacted in 17 states (all but two of which voted for Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential election), the primary petitioner in each state apart from Vermont is law enforcement. Most states also allow family members to initiate an ERPO; Hawaii even allows a co-worker to petition.
    In the same vein, Feinstein has proposed a bill mandating that law enforcement must be included as a petitioner, and states are free to add other entities to the list.

    Police officers do an excellent job of protecting citizens when called upon, but their track record as arbiters of constitutional law is less than stellar (see civil forfeiture). Further, empowering police to punish “would-be criminals” in a Minority Report-esque fashion should raise red flags of its own.
    In August, journalist Stephen Gutowski drew attention to a case in Philadelphia where NBC News reported that police had seized a “massive arsenal” including “multiple grenades” from a suicidal man. In reality, the 39 guns and inert grenades belonged to an elderly hobbyist who had been building his collection since youth. Despite committing no crime, nor making any homicidal threats, he now faces the prospect of seeing that collection destroyed while being villainized as a dangerous criminal. While Pennsylvania has yet to enact a red flag law, we can expect to see an upswing in such cases should a federal law pass.
    https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal...-support-trump



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  5. #513
    Houston, TX — Good news for gun owners keeping their eye on the legal battle over the bump stock ban. In Houston yesterday, in the first case where an American was charged with a crime for posessing the now-banned item, the prosecutor dropped the charge entirely.

    According to the Houston Chronicle, the prosecutor had good reason to drop the charge. A former ATF agent was prepared to testify that a bump stock wasn’t, in fact, a machine gun.

    Learn more about RevenueStripe...

    Senior U.S. District Judge Gray H. Miller convicted Ajay Dhingra, 44, on three remaining counts that he lied when he purchased a handgun, rifle and ammunition, and illegally possessed a weapon as a person who had been committed for mental illness.

    Experts had conflicting views on the [bump stock] matter, said defense attorney Tom Berg. But Rick Vasquez, a retired ATF agent and firearms expert, would have told the court the bump stock did not meet the statutory definition of a machine gun. The prosecution dismissed [the] case, he said, because the government couldn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt the bump stock was a machine gun.
    https://ussanews.com/News1/2020/11/1...ned-accessory/

  6. #514
    It will not hold up and Trump knew it wouldn't.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It will not hold up and Trump knew it wouldn't.
    That prosecution was in TEXAS. Texas is a state where it's legal to shoot a prostitute that takes your money and doesn't perform as long as you do it after dark.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #516

    https://twitter.com/GunOwners/status...45094808473600
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #517
    The only reason Trump banned bump stocks was because he was trying to end the federal reserve
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  10. #518
    There will be more cases and one of them will end it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #519
    If you think Trump banning bump stocks was bad just wait to see what happens when he is given four more years. He will no long need to placate his supporters and will be able to implement his life long beliefs in gun control.

    His second term will no doubt be about achieving his legacy. All that virtue signalling and grovelling to the left instead of doing his job will no doubt turn into placating them in hopes in can win them over to achieve his legacy and end the divide. In his quest for that legacy he will no doubt placate the gun grabbers.
    Last edited by kahless; 10-04-2022 at 10:00 AM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  12. #520
    That smooching sound just won’t go away.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  14. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    That smooching sound just won’t go away.
    Amazing, isn't it?

    He banned bump stocks by fiat instead of finding out what really happened in Vegas so that maybe someday a court would declare his action unconstitutional, he printed trillions and gave it to Big Pharma, then put a drunkard in charge of investigating the election theft so Biden would be blamed for the inflation and myocarditis, and no doubt conspired with Pelosi to trash the Constitution so Massie could prove his courage and integrity.

    When you're playing 46DD chess, who needs an opponent?

    And the sheep say, trust the plaaaaaan.
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Yeah, well, you've already collected as many flies with vinegar as you're gonna.

  15. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There will be more cases and one of them will end it.
    The Bump Stock Court Case Coming Up: Cargill v Garland

    https://www.ammoland.com/2022/10/the...ill-v-garland/


    The Supreme Cowards may not have wanted another controversial ruling before the midterms, or they may be waiting to use some subject other than guns to end the bureaucratic overreach.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #523
    ATF [to be] Stripped of Power by Supreme Court Decision

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #524
    Supreme Court To Review Trump-Era 'Bump Stock' Ban

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...bump-stock-ban


    The slapdown will hamstring the entire administrative state.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Supreme Court To Review Trump-Era 'Bump Stock' Ban


    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...bump-stock-ban


    The slapdown will hamstring the entire administrative state.
    Amazing what can be achieved with a little patience.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Amazing what can be achieved with a little patience.
    And cunning beyond the ken of an 8 year old.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #527
    LOL

    Trump's Kraken might show up any day now. Keep holding your breath!

  21. #528
    https://twitter.com/Trump_History45/...14276263461176




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  23. #529
    LEGAL ALERT: The Supreme Court has struck down former President Trump's bump stock ban, ruling 6-3 that the ATF exceeded its authority when it issued the rule. The opinion was written by Justice Thomas:


    https://x.com/gunpolicy/status/1801619007147057458
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  24. #530

    https://x.com/michaeldcargill/status...24855906779278
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #531
    A few key points.

    1. You don't need a bump stock in order to bump fire, it's an irrelevant accessory, and thus an irrelevant "ban".

    2. This was predicted to be overturned by a select few very smart, non TDS forum members.

    3. At that time in 2017, many spineless Republicans were ready to join with Democrats to pass more gun control. The administrative bump stock ban gave them cover to let it blow over and not pass new gun control legislation.

    4. This case now further establishes precedent against further administrative overreach.

    5. Loony libs are big mad lol 😂
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  26. #532


    https://twitter.com/NatlGunRights/st...40328576770103
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  27. #533



    https://twitter.com/JMaloneyLiberty/...63749792633210
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  28. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    A few key points.

    1. You don't need a bump stock in order to bump fire, it's an irrelevant accessory, and thus an irrelevant "ban".

    2. This was predicted to be overturned by a select few very smart, non TDS forum members.

    3. At that time in 2017, many spineless Republicans were ready to join with Democrats to pass more gun control. The administrative bump stock ban gave them cover to let it blow over and not pass new gun control legislation.

    4. This case now further establishes precedent against further administrative overreach.

    5. Loony libs are big mad lol ��
    Trump is genius, I hope he brags about it so he gets the credit he deserves
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  29. #535
    Will Trump excoriate the Supreme Court for overturning his decree?

    WINNING!!!!????

    4D magic

  30. #536
    Struck down along with a big chunk taken out of bureaucrats legislating from their desks, just like the plan.

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #537

    https://x.com/michaeldcargill/status...25404448878930
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  33. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    LEGAL ALERT: The Supreme Court has struck down former President Trump's bump stock ban, ruling 6-3 that the ATF exceeded its authority when it issued the rule. The opinion was written by Justice Thomas:

    https://x.com/gunpolicy/status/1801619007147057458
    "The opinion was written by Justice Thomas"

    https://x.com/gunpolicy/status/1801621025093788144




    FPCGear.com

    https://x.com/gunpolicy/status/1802375575253692640
    & https://x.com/gunpolicy/status/1802378747984728265
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-17-2024 at 06:34 PM.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  34. #539
    They're coping and seething and seething and coping ...

    https://x.com/shannonrwatts/status/1801975437381316721


    The Group Helping the Supreme Court Rewrite America’s Gun Laws Is Worse Than the NRA
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...mp-stocks.html
    {Dahlia Lithwick & Mark Joseph Stern | 15 June 2024}

    [bold & underline emphasis added - OB]

    The Supreme Court struck down the federal ban on bump stocks on Friday, legalizing a device that can effectively transform semiautomatic rifles into machine guns. Predictably, the court split 6–3, with the Republican-appointed justices carving a massive loophole in federal law at the behest of the firearms industry. Justice Clarence Thomas’ majority opinion is rooted in historical misrepresentations and utterly implausible manipulations of the statutory text. It enables future mass shooters to equip their AR-15s with an attachment that increases the rate of fire exponentially, to up to 800 rounds per minute.

    Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern discussed the decision on Saturday’s episode of Amicus. They were joined by David Pucino, an expert in firearms law and legal director of the Giffords Law Center. Their conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

    Dahlia Lithwick: Justice Thomas makes the claim that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms did a complete 180 on how it viewed bump stocks, suddenly changing their minds after the Las Vegas massacre and deciding that, actually, they are machine guns. That’s just not true, right?

    Mark Joseph Stern: This idea that ATF said bump stocks were 100 percent legal, then turned around in response to political pressure and said they were unlawful all along—that’s a misrepresentation of history. What really happened was that gunmakers were developing various tools to help make semiautomatic rifles fire at a higher rate. ATF looked at these and said some were potentially legal while others were not, on a case-by-case basis, without making a formal determination at the agency level. Some were snuck through under false pretenses as an accommodation for disability. And when ATF decided to take a holistic look at this issue after the Las Vegas shooting, it decided that, when bump stocks operate a certain way—basically, enabling automatic fire—they are illegal.

    That, to me, is doing exactly what an agency is supposed to do. ATF looked at the facts on the ground. It looked at its mandate from Congress. It looked at its own past decisions. And it harmonized them as best it could in accordance with what experts at the agency say the facts are. To see Thomas slander ATF as caving to political pressure, then using this charge to overrule the determination of ATF’s own firearm experts—it seemed to me the height of arrogance.

    David Pucino: I think it’s important to remember that there was really careful work going on at ATF to make these determinations on a case-by-case basis. The agency was faced with a problem: Folks in the firearm industry were trying to get around the laws on the books. When an agency comes out and says, “This is what the law is,” the industry is going to try to get around it. And the agency has to decide if they’ll succeed.

    What’s really striking here is that ATF was doing that engagement, and the Supreme Court came in and usurped it here in a way that’s totally unworkable if you apply it beyond the favored political constituency of the gun industry. It’s absurd to have the Supreme Court putting all this work into deciding the mechanics of a firearm and whether it meets the statute and trying to overrule an agency that made those same determinations. That’s not a workable way to do government. If every difficult regulatory decision made in this country that might’ve gone one way or another goes up to the Supreme Court, that’s all the justices would ever be doing. You’d need a thousand Supreme Courts to handle it.

    The volume of work that comes out of the administrative state is not something that the Supreme Court can analyze in this way, at least not in any sort of reasonable manner, and I don’t think they would ever even pretend to. But what you have here is a particular, favored constituency that is bringing these questions. And then, all of a sudden, the court decides to drop everything and figure out how this gun works. Now, the way ATF does that is to sit down and actually look at the firearm. They’re going to bring in their experts and make those determinations. But the way the Supreme Court does it is they look at an amicus brief by the Firearms Policy Coalition and co-sign it.

    Lithwick: That’s the group that created the six graphics and a gif that Justice Thomas used to illustrate how semiautomatic rifles work. Why was it notable that he copied and pasted their material into a Supreme Court opinion?

    Pucino: The National Rifle Association is not what it used to be, and that’s created a gap. And what has gone into the gap are a bunch of further-right organizations that are trying to take the mantle of the NRA by being as extreme as possible. Foremost among them is the Firearms Policy Coalition. Friday was a real moment for them. It’s one of the most extreme groups; it uses extraordinarily violent rhetoric. And it’s putting out material that’s getting blessed by a majority opinion of the Supreme Court. You have to take a step back and look at where we are—I don’t think that’s anything you could imagine happening even 10 years ago.

    Lithwick: You’re both hitting on a big theme of this term, which is the Supreme Court making it impossible for agencies to do pretty much anything. And it seems awfully important when you have Clarence Thomas substituting his judgment for ATF’s with what Justice Sotomayor pointedly calls “six diagrams and an animation.” The majority was just like, I know everything, here’s a Peanuts comic strip. It seems as if Thomas was trying to explain his tortured interpretation to the public, to make it accessible, but eliding the agency’s own expert views in the process.

    Pucino: The idea that you can get the amount of expertise that goes into technical determinations made by ATF by simply looking at briefs and diagrams—I mean, just, no. Obviously not. The amount of time that even clerks, let alone justices, require to do a deep dive on these issues, the depth of understanding they’re going to need—it won’t come anywhere near that of an expert who’s working on this full time. This is their whole job. It’s what they’re trained to do.

    Stern: You can really only justify Thomas’ reading, in my view, if you start from the conclusion that the bump stock ban is unlawful and work your way backward, butchering the text to mean something it just doesn’t. This isn’t how ordinary people use the English language and, as Sotomayor showed, it isn’t how members of Congress who voted on this law used English when they wrote it in 1934. If “textualism” can be deployed in such an underhanded and cynical way, I don’t think it’s really getting us anywhere. It’s just another pretext for the Supreme Court to reach whatever result it wants.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-17-2024 at 06:36 PM.

  35. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    David Pucino: I think it’s important to remember that there was really careful work going on at ATF to make these determinations on a case-by-case basis. The agency was faced with a problem: Folks in the firearm industry were trying to get around the laws on the books. When an agency comes out and says, “This is what the law is,” the industry is going to try to get around it. And the agency has to decide if they’ll succeed.
    You see, if the law is clear, then people might know what it is.

    And if people know what the law is, then they might try to get around it.

    So to prevent that, the law needs to be vague and inscrutable to anyone who isn't a government bureaucrat.

    That way, government bureaucrats will be free to decide if and when to apply it "on a case-by-case basis".

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