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Thread: U.S. Senate Bails Out Dairy Industry With $1 Billion of Taxpayer Money

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Canard View Post
    The reason milk sales have been in decline is because milk produced by factory farms doesn't taste very good. Cows were designed and bred over millenia to wander grassy fields. Take these cows and put them on concrete pads where they stand all day eating grains laced with antibiotics on one end and $#@!ting into a trough on the other and it should be no surprise that milk quality has suffered. Why the antibiotics? Because these cows are sick all the time from the unnatural diet. Why the grain? Because it boost milk production. The farmer doesn't care that these cows live half as long as their pastured equivalent because they will soon be featured at McDonalds.
    Speaking of that, I came across a shocking statistic today… I want to verify if this is true, but it’s very interesting. Apparently, many companies have a financial interest in keeping animal agriculture going. Of course people are eating this and it’s causing resistance… and people are getting sick which means they need more pharmaceutical drugs. And who benefits from that?

    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    OK, I see you’re joking now.

    As for the Scriptures, I was specifically talking about God‘s original purpose and design. Animals were not designed to be food. Fruits and veggies and food from the ground was. There is absolutely no denying that, it’s right there in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible. God‘s original design was a plant-based diet, and God‘s ultimate plan is a restoration of that original peace and harmony we had for short time in the garden of Eden. Everything in between is this fallen world and God gave us over to the things we wanted, but that doesn’t mean it was His idea or that He likes it.
    To say you know God's original plan, you must have missed these verses in Genesis of His original plan.

    Genesis Chapter 2 verse 5:

    “And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.”

    https://www.scribd.com/document/6848...an-Eth-ha-Adam

    God made the second Adam (Hebrew: Eth-ha-adam) a farmer. Genesis 2:19-20 says:

    19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

    Moving on the children, Cain and Abel Genesis 4:2 says:

    2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    LOL...they stopped drinking milk and started drinking HFCS laden sodas, juices and sweetened water.

    The results?
    You're ignoring the super food culture, even Rand wasn't dumb and tried to target the superfood voters Yeah there are a lot of people that are overweight but there is also an alternate culture that eat superfoods, that want to live to be 150. The superfood wave is coming and they will replace us all naturally because they will outlive us. The future isn't eating subsidized meat and cheese. The future is deserts with no calories, and slow digesting food pellets that will make us live longer and give us more energy and make us happier. It might be farmed, but it won't say moo. It might even be hemp based.

  5. #64
    Animal milk has been an essential part of human survival. Mongolian nomads have been living off yaks and their milk for centuries. These people have little agriculture of any kind.

    I recommend Taiga (1992) if you want to witness their lifestyle. It is a very long documentary but you won't forget it.




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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by milgram View Post
    Animal milk has been an essential part of human survival. Mongolian nomads have been living off yaks and their milk for centuries. These people have little agriculture of any kind.
    They would also open a neck vein and drink horse blood on the fly.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    They would also open a neck vein and drink horse blood on the fly.
    And they rode female ponies almost exclusively, one reason being they would live off their milk.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And they rode female ponies almost exclusively, one reason being they would live off their milk.
    And they would also dress as horses for their weird ceremonies at Horriday Inns.

    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    You were comparing milk to soda or sweet drinks… My point was that that's a terrible comparison, because people who ditch dairy typically go to almond milk, cashew milk, rice milk, soy milk, oat milk or other non-dairy plant-based milks… Not soda or juice.
    ...
    Sugar is a major ingredient in many of these milk substitutes. Just sayin'...
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  11. #69
    Well, also, people are learning that pasteurized milk is bad for you, at least compared to raw milk. The price of raw milk is not cheap.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    To say you know God's original plan, you must have missed these verses in Genesis of His original plan.

    Genesis Chapter 2 verse 5:

    “And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.”

    https://www.scribd.com/document/6848...an-Eth-ha-Adam

    God made the second Adam (Hebrew: Eth-ha-adam) a farmer. Genesis 2:19-20 says:

    19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

    Moving on the children, Cain and Abel Genesis 4:2 says:

    2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

    You're bringing up a different topic and I'm not sure what you believe because as Pete said on that other thread, it is all over the place… But it is certainly not the standard Christian belief.

    As for the verse about Adam naming the animals, that only confirms what I've been saying. God's original design which we saw in the Garden of Eden was peace and harmony, not a slaughterhouse. Adam was to take care of the animals, name them, and nowhere in Genesis 1 did God say "I created animals for you to eat and exploit." Genesis 1:29 is very very clear, don't ignore that verse.

    Abel being a keeper of sheep does not mean for the purpose of eating them. The Bible is also clear that meat eating wasn't permitted until after the flood, and it is argued that that was only because all the vegetation was dead and there would have been very little to eat at that time. If any meat eating did occur before the flood, it almost certainly would have been because the fallen angels who corrupted mankind taught them all sorts of demonic things, meat-eating being one of them. In fact, some extra biblical writings say just that, I can look it up and post it for you if you want.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Sugar is a major ingredient in many of these milk substitutes. Just sayin'...
    Not nearly as much as Coke or apple juice and things like that. Also, almond milk comes unsweetened.
    Last edited by lilymc; 02-19-2018 at 03:08 PM.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  13. #71
    sounds to me they're milkin' it for all it's worth

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    [/B]You're bringing up a different topic and I'm not sure what you believe because as Pete said on that other thread, it is all over the place… But it is certainly not the standard Christian belief.
    Hmm a different topic? I placed scripture up to point out what God did, not what I did. I read it with understanding, so I am not sure what standard Christian's believe or are being taught but the verses are pretty clear to me. Adam was made to be a farmer.


    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    As for the verse about Adam naming the animals, that only confirms what I've been saying. God's original design which we saw in the garden of Eden was peace and harmony, not not a slaughterhouse. Adam was to take care of the animals, name them, and nowhere in Genesis 1 did God say "I created animals for you to eat and exploit." Genesis 1:29 is very very clear, don't ignore that verse.As for the verse about Adam naming the animals, that only confirms what I've been saying. God's original design which we saw in the garden of Eden was peace and harmony, not not a slaughterhouse. Adam was to take care of the animals, name them, and nowhere in Genesis 1 did God say "I created animals for you to eat and exploit." Genesis 1:29 is very very clear, don't ignore that verse.
    Yes and verse 1:29 was at the end of the sixth day. My quote verse was after that Genesis 2:19-20

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Abel being a keeper of sheep does not mean for the purpose of eating them. The Bible is also clear that meat eating wasn't permitted until after the flood, and it is argued that that was only because all the vegetation was dead and there would have been very little to eat at that time. If any meat eating did occur before the flood, it almost certainly would have been because the fallen angels who corrupted mankind taught them all sorts of demonic things, meat-eating being one of them. In fact, some extra biblical writings say just that, I can look it up and post it for you if you want.
    Then in Genesis 4:4 Abel was the keeper of the sheep and he brought God a sheep for offering.

    4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his
    offering
    :

    In the Book of Isaiah talks about when the flesh is gone, because God loves his animals too. There will be no more carnivores in spiritual bodies. That is why these animals will be able to dwell with each other,

    Isaiah 11:6-9 (KJV)

    6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

    7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

    8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

    9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.


    The fallen angels were not spoken of until Genesis 6.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    You're ignoring the super food culture, even Rand wasn't dumb and tried to target the superfood voters Yeah there are a lot of people that are overweight but there is also an alternate culture that eat superfoods, that want to live to be 150. The superfood wave is coming and they will replace us all naturally because they will outlive us. The future isn't eating subsidized meat and cheese. The future is deserts with no calories, and slow digesting food pellets that will make us live longer and give us more energy and make us happier. It might be farmed, but it won't say moo. It might even be hemp based.
    Meh, you can have your Soylent Green pellets and Star Trek replicators and Nebuchadnezzar protein gruel.

    Ever wonder why almost every dystopian novel had some reference to the awful food that existed?

    Because a good meal is a symbol of a free and prosperous society.

    A good meal is a transcendental experience, to be savored, enjoyed and reflected upon.

    The neo-proletarians can keep their macro-organic, vegan, cruelty free, gluten free, fat free, tasteless, worthless, helpless glop that passes for a good meal.

    Give me a NY strip, red, juicy and so damn tasty, basted in garlic butter, with green beans, fried potatoes, a Manhattan and a Macundo to smoke afterwards.

    You may live longer, but I'll live better.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Meh, you can have your Soylent Green pellets and Star Trek replicators and Nebuchadnezzar protein gruel.

    Ever wonder why almost every dystopian novel had some reference to the awful food that existed?

    Because a good meal is a symbol of a free and prosperous society.

    A good meal is a transcendental experience, to be savored, enjoyed and reflected upon.

    The neo-proletarians can keep their macro-organic, vegan, cruelty free, gluten free, fat free, tasteless, worthless, helpless glop that passes for a good meal.

    Give me a NY strip, red, juicy and so damn tasty, basted in garlic butter, with green beans, fried potatoes, a Manhattan and a Macundo to smoke afterwards.

    You may live longer, but I'll live better.
    You and I will probably live longer than the losers who believe that science even comes close to understanding what a human should consume but even if we don't you are correct, living a long time is a curse if you are miserable the whole time.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Hmm a different topic? I placed scripture up to point out what God did, not what I did. I read it with understanding, so I am not sure what standard Christian's believe or are being taught but the verses are pretty clear to me. Adam was made to be a farmer.




    Yes and verse 1:29 was at the end of the sixth day. My quote verse was after that Genesis 2:19-20



    Then in Genesis 4:4 Abel was the keeper of the sheep and he brought God a sheep for offering.

    4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his
    offering
    :

    In the Book of Isaiah talks about when the flesh is gone, because God loves his animals too. There will be no more carnivores in spiritual bodies. That is why these animals will be able to dwell with each other,

    Isaiah 11:6-9 (KJV)

    6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

    7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

    8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

    9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.


    The fallen angels were not spoken of until Genesis 6.
    Again, the important thing is God's original design/intent, which is the same as God's ultimate plan, as prophesied in Isaiah and other places. Since God does not change, I believe it is wrong to dismiss God's original design by cherry picking verses that may at first glance appear to contradict it.

    There are a few different interpretations of that verse about Abel and his offering. The mainstream interpretation seems to be that once sin came into the world, that's when sacrifices were introduced, to of course foreshadow Jesus' sacrifice for our sin. Since this represented something very serious and horrible, it was not something to be done lightly. (And btw, nowhere in that text does it say they ate meat. In fact, that verse doesn't say that Abel killed anything, just that he brought God the best of his flock.)

    There are a couple other views on that passage… But I don't have time right now to get into all of that.

    Also, I think it's very important to know that God repeatedly said that he has no pleasure in animal slaughter and he never required it. (Psalm 51:16, Hosea 6:6, Jeremiah 7:22, Isaiah 1:11, Matthew 9:13, Hebrews 10:8, Psalm 40:6, Mark 12:33, Jeremiah 32:30, etc.)

    So when you put all that together – the heart of God, a heart of love, mercy, compassion, along with his very clear words in Genesis 1:29, and the numerous verses about his desire for mercy, not sacrifice…I think it is wrong to assume that God has no problem with what we are doing with animals.

    And like I mentioned before, there are a number of very interesting writings by the early Christians and some extra biblical texts that state that meat eating originated with the fallen angels, the ones who spawned the Nephilim...So if the origin is demonic and it was not God's original design, why do it?
    Last edited by lilymc; 02-19-2018 at 07:09 PM.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Again, the important thing is God's original design/intent, which is the same as God's ultimate plan, as prophesied in Isaiah and other places. Since God does not change, I believe it is wrong to dismiss God's original design by cherry picking verses that may at first glance appear to contradict it.

    There are a few different interpretations of that verse about Abel and his offering. The mainstream interpretation seems to be that once sin came into the world, that's when sacrifices were introduced, to of course foreshadow Jesus' sacrifice for our sin. Since this represented something very serious and horrible, it was not something to be done lightly. (And btw, nowhere in that text does it say they ate meat. In fact, that verse doesn't say that Abel killed anything, just that he brought God the best of his flock.)

    There are a couple other views on that passage… But I don't have time right now to get into all of that.

    Also, I think it's very important to know that God repeatedly said that he has no pleasure in animal slaughter and he never required it. (Psalm 51:16, Hosea 6:6, Jeremiah 7:22, Isaiah 1:11, Matthew 9:13, Hebrews 10:8, Psalm 40:6, Mark 12:33, Jeremiah 32:30, etc.)

    So when you put all that together – the heart of God, a heart of love, mercy, compassion, along with his very clear words in Genesis 1:29, and the numerous verses about his desire for mercy, not sacrifice…I think it is wrong to assume that God has no problem with what we are doing with animals.

    And like I mentioned before, there are a number of very interesting writings by the early Christians and some extra biblical texts that state that meat eating originated with the fallen angels, the ones who spawned the Nephilim...So if the origin is demonic and it was not God's original design, why do it?
    Genesis 9:2-4 (KJV)

    2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

    3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

    4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.


    For anyone who hunts, when you kill an animal you need to drain the blood and remove the inner organs quickly, or it will ruin the meat.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  20. #77
    God gave us beer .

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Meh, you can have your Soylent Green pellets and Star Trek replicators and Nebuchadnezzar protein gruel.

    Ever wonder why almost every dystopian novel had some reference to the awful food that existed?

    Because a good meal is a symbol of a free and prosperous society.

    A good meal is a transcendental experience, to be savored, enjoyed and reflected upon.

    The neo-proletarians can keep their macro-organic, vegan, cruelty free, gluten free, fat free, tasteless, worthless, helpless glop that passes for a good meal.

    Give me a NY strip, red, juicy and so damn tasty, basted in garlic butter, with green beans, fried potatoes, a Manhattan and a Macundo to smoke afterwards.

    You may live longer, but I'll live better.
    Oh I don't think one has to choose quality over quantity of life. I think its okay if you choose to smoke tobacco, I am going to recommend you vape though because I have seen peoples health improve after they switch. Eating is a wonderful human ritual that I don't think will ever go away. I just don't take the time to eat right or prepare food, so most the time I am just eating junk food on the rush. Don't get me wrong on a weekend I like to eat, but while I am at work it slows me down, but I know when I don't eat at work I get distracted or I might not have the energy I need. I think though that with the right kind of superfood I could eat whatever junk food I want but also get all the nutrition I need.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Genesis 9:2-4 (KJV)

    2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

    3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

    4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.


    For anyone who hunts, when you kill an animal you need to drain the blood and remove the inner organs quickly, or it will ruin the meat.
    Why no response to anything I said in my previous post? It's easy to post scriptures like the one above, but it doesn't negate anything I said. I already mentioned this passage earlier. I was about to go over all the different interpretations of that passage (there are a few, from a vegetarian/vegan perspective) but I honestly was not intending to get into a Bible study tonight, and that is not even the topic of this thread anyway, so we can go into more detail on this at another time, on another thread.

    For now I'll say this. Picture in your mind a timeline. At the very beginning, you have God's perfect will (peace and harmony among all living beings, no violence, no killing, no meat eating)...And then at the end, when God restores that original design, once again you'll have God's perfect will. Everything in between is a symptom of this fallen world. Not God's perfect will, but in many cases God giving us over to what we want, due to the hardness of our hearts.

    So when you look at that timeline, and you see on the left and on the right, God's perfect will… and in the middle this fallen world… what should we, as Christians, aim for? Unless it is a matter of survival, why not honor God's original design and His ultimate plan which he is moving us toward, as we speak?

    Why not think about the condition of mankind overall, and question why there is so much disease, violence, corruption? Perhaps if we go back to how God originally designed us – to be peaceful, non-violent, and to eat a healthy plant-based diet – then we would see a reversal of these diseases and destruction of this beautiful earth God gave us stewardship of.

    Also, think about the fruit of the Spirit. What is more in line with love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control – a slaughterhouse or a garden? Please answer honestly.
    Last edited by lilymc; 02-19-2018 at 09:40 PM.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Why no response to anything I said in my previous post? It's easy to post scriptures like the one above, but it doesn't negate anything I said. I already mentioned this passage earlier. I was about to go over all the different interpretations of that passage (there are a few, from a vegetarian/vegan perspective) but I honestly was not intending to get into a Bible study tonight, and that is not even the topic of this thread anyway, so we can go into more detail on this at another time, on another thread.

    For now I'll say this. Picture in your mind a timeline. At the very beginning, you have God's perfect will (peace and harmony among all living beings, no violence, no killing, no meat eating)...And then at the end, when God restores that original design, once again you'll have God's perfect will. Everything in between is a symptom of this fallen world. Not God's perfect will, but in many cases God giving us over to what we want, due to the hardness of our hearts.

    So when you look at that timeline, and you see on the left and on the right, God's perfect will… and in the middle this fallen world… what should we, as Christians, aim for? Unless it is a matter of survival, why not honor God's original design and His ultimate plan which he is moving us toward, as we speak?

    Why not think about the condition of mankind overall, and question why there is so much disease, violence, corruption? Perhaps if we go back to how God originally designed us – to be peaceful, non-violent, and to eat a healthy plant-based diet – then we would see a reversal of these diseases and destruction of this beautiful earth God gave us stewardship of.

    Also, think about the fruit of the Spirit. What is more in line with love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control – a slaughterhouse or a garden? Please answer honestly.
    I have been answering honestly, but you do not want to hear it. In order for you to understand God's Original Design you must understand about the first Earth Age and what happened. If you do not understand the Beginning, you will not understand the Ending of this earth age.

    Reference:
    http://worldeventsandthebible.com/20...earth-age.html
    http://www.biblestudygames.com/bible...eworldages.htm


    God created ALL flesh for HIS reason. We are born innocent so that we can make up our minds as to whom we will love and serve--God or Satan? It's really quite simple.

    Our flesh is made in the image of God and the angels.

    In Exodus 16 God sent down Manna (Angel's food) and quail (a non-scavenger flesh) for the children of Israel to eat when Moses lead them out of the bondage of Egypt.

    The Health Laws in Leviticus God laid out for a reason. God made our flesh bodies and who would know better to give guidance on what to eat and what not eat? By eating scavengers it does not mean you are committing a sin to your soul, but God knew it will make the flesh body sick. Again, God put scavengers on this earth for a reason. The swine for instance is here to clean. Farmers would have swine on their farms to keep the farm clean--they eat all the waste.

    Colossians 2:16-23 (KJV)

    16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

    19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

    20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

    21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

    22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

    23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


    Now that being said-- I do not condone cruelty towards animals of any kind, but if I go hunting or fishing and I get meat, I always give Thanks to our Father for providing it for me and my family.
    Last edited by donnay; 02-20-2018 at 08:13 AM.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I have been answering honestly, but you do not want to hear it. In order for you to understand God's Original Design you must understand about the first Earth Age and what happened. If you do not understand the Beginning, you will not understand the Ending of this earth age.

    Reference:
    http://worldeventsandthebible.com/20...earth-age.html
    http://www.biblestudygames.com/bible...eworldages.htm


    God created ALL flesh for HIS reason. We are born innocent so that we can make up our minds as to whom we will love and serve--God or Satan? It's really quite simple.

    Our flesh is made in the image of God and the angels.

    In Exodus 16 God sent down Manna (Angel's food) and quail (a non-scavenger flesh) for the children of Israel to eat when Moses lead them out of the bondage of Egypt.

    The Health Laws in Leviticus God laid out for a reason. God made our flesh bodies and who would know better to give guidance on what to eat and what not eat? By eating scavengers it does not mean you are committing a sin to your soul, but God knew it will make the flesh body sick. Again, God put scavengers on this earth for a reason. The swine for instance is here to clean. Farmers would have swine on their farms to keep the farm clean--they eat all the waste.

    Colossians 2:16-23 (KJV)

    16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

    19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

    20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

    21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

    22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

    23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


    Now that being said-- I do not condone cruelty towards animals of any kind, but if I go hunting or fishing and I get meat, I always give Thanks to our Father for providing it for me and my family.
    Donna, again you're not addressing anything I said. You did that twice now. That's not how I like to debate, because if I'm going to reply to the things you're saying, then I think it's only fair that you would do the same.

    The Scriptures about the quail are one of the worst things you could have chosen in support of meat eating… That was a curse! The only reason God gave them quail was because they were complaining nonstop, meat was what they were craving, so God gave them what they wanted.


    Exodus 16:3

    And the children of Israel said to them, “Oh, that we had died by the hand of the Lord in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the pots of meat and when we ate bread to the full! For you have brought us out into this wilderness to kill this whole assembly with hunger.”


    Numbers 11:4-6

    The rabble with them began to crave other food, and again the Israelites started wailing and said, “If only we had meat to eat! We remember the fish we ate in Egypt at no cost—also the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions and garlic. But now we have lost our appetite; we never see anything but this manna!”


    Later, God was angry about their ungratefulness, complaining and selfishness, so here is God's response:

    Num. 11:18-20

    “Tell the people: Consecrate yourselves in preparation for tomorrow, when you will eat meat. Yahweh heard you when you wailed, ‘If only we had meat to eat! We were better off in Egypt!’ Now Yahweh will give you meat, and you will eat it. You will not eat it for just one day, or two days, or five, ten or twenty days, but for a whole month. You will eat it until it comes out of your nostrils and you loathe it! This is because you have rejected Yahweh, who is among you, and have wailed before Him, saying, ‘Why did we ever leave Egypt?'”

    And God struck them down with the plague:

    Numbers 11:33

    33 But while the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was aroused against the people, and the Lord struck the people with a very great plague.

    Even in Psalms it states that what happened, God gave them what they craved, but it was accompanied by a plague and people dying!

    Psalm 78:26-29

    God let loose the east wind from the heavens and by His power made the south wind blow. He rained meat down on them like dust, birds like sand on the seashore. He made them come down inside their camp, all around their tents. They ate till they were gorged—He had given them what they craved

    Psalm 106:13-15

    But they soon forgot what He had done and did not wait for His plan to unfold. In the desert they gave in to their craving; in the wilderness they put God to the test. So He gave them what they asked for, but sent a wasting disease among them.


    You know, now that I think about it… I believe this quail curse story is a good analogy of what is going on in the world today. We were not happy with what God gave us originally (see Genesis 1:29) so God gave us what we wanted… Dead animal flesh. Similar to the Israelites who had quail coming out of their nostrils, we are now gorging on animals every day. And what has been the result of that? Well first of all, the years of people's lives is significantly shorter… Down to 120 years, as opposed to 800 or 1000 years that people used to live pre-flood.

    Not only that, but as time goes on, there is more and more disease in this world, illnesses, cancer, heart disease… All of these things were never meant to happen, but they're happening because we are living in ways that were not the way God originally intended us to live. And it's not just what we eat, but our heart… Instead of caring about God's perfect will and the bigger picture, most of us only care about ourselves and our own desires. We were never meant to eat animals, but God allows many things to take place in this world that were never His original plan.

    As for the other things you brought up, like Leviticus, none of that changes God's original design. You keep ignoring that, and not addressing my point. Everything in the middle of the timeline that starts with Genesis and ends with the prophetic scriptures is a symptom of this fallen world.

    You didn't answer my questions from before, but I don't want to keep asking you if you are choosing to not answer. So I think I will leave this discussion because it doesn't look like these things are going to be addressed, and I do not want us to go around in circles.
    Last edited by lilymc; 02-20-2018 at 01:57 PM.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  26. #82
    @lilymc

    Isaiah 7:15

    Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.”

    King James Version (KJV)


    Isaiah 7:22

    “And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land.”

    King James Version (KJV)


    Jeremiah 11:5

    “That I may perform the oath which I have sworn unto your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day. Then answered I, and said, So be it, O LORD.”

    King James Version (KJV)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Donna, again you're not addressing anything I said. You did that twice now. That's not how I like to debate, because if I'm going to reply to the things you're saying, then I think it's only fair that you would do the same.

    The Scriptures about the quail are one of the worst things you could have chosen in support of meat eating… That was a curse! The only reason God gave them quail was because they were complaining nonstop, meat was what they were craving, so God gave them what they wanted.


    Exodus 16:3

    And the children of Israel said to them, “Oh, that we had died by the hand of the Lord in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the pots of meat and when we ate bread to the full! For you have brought us out into this wilderness to kill this whole assembly with hunger.”


    Numbers 11:4-6

    The rabble with them began to crave other food, and again the Israelites started wailing and said, “If only we had meat to eat! We remember the fish we ate in Egypt at no cost—also the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions and garlic. But now we have lost our appetite; we never see anything but this manna!”


    Later, God was angry about their ungratefulness, complaining and selfishness, so here is God's response:

    Num. 11:18-20

    “Tell the people: Consecrate yourselves in preparation for tomorrow, when you will eat meat. Yahweh heard you when you wailed, ‘If only we had meat to eat! We were better off in Egypt!’ Now Yahweh will give you meat, and you will eat it. You will not eat it for just one day, or two days, or five, ten or twenty days, but for a whole month. You will eat it until it comes out of your nostrils and you loathe it! This is because you have rejected Yahweh, who is among you, and have wailed before Him, saying, ‘Why did we ever leave Egypt?'”

    And God struck them down with the plague:

    Numbers 11:33

    33 But while the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was aroused against the people, and the Lord struck the people with a very great plague.

    Even in Psalms it states that what happened, God gave them what they craved, but it was accompanied by a plague and people dying!

    Psalm 78:26-29

    God let loose the east wind from the heavens and by His power made the south wind blow. He rained meat down on them like dust, birds like sand on the seashore. He made them come down inside their camp, all around their tents. They ate till they were gorged—He had given them what they craved

    Psalm 106:13-15

    But they soon forgot what He had done and did not wait for His plan to unfold. In the desert they gave in to their craving; in the wilderness they put God to the test. So He gave them what they asked for, but sent a wasting disease among them.


    You know, now that I think about it… I believe this quail curse story is a good analogy of what is going on in the world today. We were not happy with what God gave us originally (see Genesis 1:29) So God gave us what we wanted… Dead animal flesh. Similar to the Israelites who had quail coming out of their nostrils, we are now gorging on animals every day. And what has been the result of that? Well first of all, the years of peoples lives was significantly shorter… Down to 120 years, as opposed to 800 or 1000 years that people used to live pre-flood.

    Not only that, but as time goes on, there is more and more disease in this world, illnesses, cancer, heart disease… All of these things were never meant to happen, but they're happening because we are living in ways that were not the way God originally intended us to live. And it's not just what we eat but our heart… Instead of caring about God's perfect will and the bigger picture, most of us only care about ourselves and our own desires. We were never meant to eat animals, but God allows many things to take place in this world that were never His original plan.

    As for the other things you brought up, like Leviticus, none of that changes God's original design. You keep ignoring that, and not addressing my point. Everything in the middle of the timeline that starts with Genesis and ends with the prophetic scriptures is a symptom of this fallen world.

    You didn't answer my questions from before, but I don't want to keep asking you if you are choosing to not answer. So I think I will leave this discussion because it doesn't look like these things are going to be addressed, and I do not want us to go around in circles.
    The point of Exodus was that they ate Manna (which is angel's food) because we are made in God's and the angel's image. That being said, if we are made in God and the angel's image and no meat was involved, God would have just fed them for 40 years with angel's food--period.

    How can you say you know God's Original Design when you do not acknowledge a world age before this one and you do not acknowledge a six day creation? Therefore you do not acknowledge that God created the second man (Adam) to be a farmer which includes farming animals.

    As far a diseases go, there is no doubt that mankind has polluted this world. However, how many people follow the health Laws? I know a lot of people who think that they do not have to follow them because Jesus died on the cross and made all food clean now. That is simply not true.

    You have a right to be a vegetarian / vegan if that is what works for you. But to claim people are sick because they eat meat, is a bit disingenuous.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

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