Trade Wars Begin: Commerce Dept Recommends 23.5% Tariff On All Imports From China, Russia +

[CCTelander]

Dude, just give it up. You're out of your depth here. It would be wise to recognize it.

And take steps to remedy the deficiency.

[Zippyjuan]

We trade for many consumables and items with zero or limited resale value.

US Top Exports based on total dollar value: http://www.worldstopexports.com/unit...op-10-exports/

Machinery including computers: US$201.7 billion (13% of total exports)
Electrical machinery, equipment: $174.2 billion (11.3%)
Mineral fuels including oil: $138 billion (8.9%)
Aircraft, spacecraft: $131.2 billion (8.5%)
Vehicles: $130.1 billion (8.4%)
Optical, technical, medical apparatus: $83.6 billion (5.4%)
Plastics, plastic articles: $61.5 billion (4%)
Gems, precious metals: $60.4 billion (3.9%)
Pharmaceuticals: $45.1 billion (2.9%)
Organic chemicals: $36.2 billion (2.3%)

Among the top 10 export categories year over year, mineral fuels including oil was the fastest-growing U.S. shipment via its 47.3% value gain from 2016 to 2017.

In second place for improving export sales were organic chemicals which rose 6.6%.

America’s exported machinery including computers appreciated by 5.8% year over year.

There were two decliners among America’s top 10 export categories in 2017 compared to 2016: aircraft and spacecraft (down -2.7%) and pharmaceuticals (down -4.1%).

Our top imports: http://www.worldstopexports.com/unit...op-10-imports/

Electrical machinery, equipment: US$356.8 billion (14.8% of total imports)
Machinery including computers: $349.1 billion (14.5%)
Vehicles : $294.6 billion (12.2%)
Mineral fuels including oil: $204.2 billion (8.5%)
Pharmaceuticals: $96.4 billion (4%)
Optical, technical, medical apparatus: $86.2 billion (3.6%)
Furniture, bedding, lighting, signs, prefab buildings: $67.2 billion (2.8%)
Gems, precious metals: $60 billion (2.5%)
Plastics, plastic articles: $54.9 billion (2.3%)
Organic chemicals: $46.1 billion (1.9%)

America’s imports of mineral fuels including oil had the fastest-growing increase in value among the top 10 import categories, up 25.2% from 2016 to 2017. This gain was propelled by higher purchases of crude and refined petroleum oils as well as petroleum gas.

In second place for expanding import purchases was machinery including computers via a 10.7% uptick.

American imports of plastics delivered the third-fastest improvement up 9%.

Two import product categories declined year over year, namely gems and precious metals (down -8.2%) led by reduced purchases of gold and diamonds and organic chemicals (down -7.4%).

[CaptUSA]

We trade for many consumables and items with zero or limited resale value.

Ugh. It doesn't matter what you trade for. If it's more valuable to you than the FRN's you've given up to get it, you have increased your wealth. That's the point. With trade, you always get more than you give. That's kinda the whole point!

[Zippyjuan]

Trade is two parties freely agreeing that both have something the other wants and they agree on the terms of an exchange.

[Swordsmyth]

Ugh. It doesn't matter what you trade for. If it's more valuable to you than the FRN's you've given up to get it, you have increased your wealth. That's the point. With trade, you always get more than you give. That's kinda the whole point!

So I can quit my job and spend my money on consumables and items with limited resale value and when my bank account is empty and I have garage-saled off all of my assets (for a discount) to buy food I won't be poor?

[Swordsmyth]

Trade is two parties freely agreeing that both have something the other wants and they agree on the terms of an exchange.

And it doesn't mean that both are using wisdom and will stay solvent, or that one is not suckering the other.

[CaptUSA]

Trade is two parties freely agreeing that both have something the other wants and they agree on the terms of an exchange.

Tariffs are a pious government telling them that their terms aren't "fair" and one of them needs to pay more.

[Zippyjuan]

And it doesn't mean that both are using wisdom and will stay solvent, or that one is not suckering the other.

No, there isn't any guarantee that everybody lives happily ever after and becomes billionaires. The important thing is that they were free to make their own decisions. Things like tariffs says that somebody isn't capable of making their own decisions- or at least not the right ones. They need protecting.

[CaptUSA]

So I can quit my job and spend my money on consumables and items with limited resale value and when my bank account is empty and I have garage-saled off all of my assets (for a discount) to buy food I won't be poor?

Still with this ridiculously ignorant analogy?! lol. So, I guess your response would be to centrally-plan what people trade for because you know better than each individual what they should value?

The truth is, in your faulty analogy, the person gained their wealth through trade and then squandered it. The trade wasn't the problem - it's what was done afterwards.

[juleswin]

I don't know whether this is good or not but we had a trade surplus in 1930, we have a giant deficit now so it is totally different.

I think this is the first time I have agree with u on anything. But there is something like a trade deficit and depending on how it is created, it can be bad. Take the situation we have in this country, we have been buying for years with a credit card that has interest that will bury us. I don't care what Ron Paul said but that cannot be a good thing.

Some people have this mindset that just because a voluntary trade is going on, everybody is winning. Well, it depends because there can definitely be winner and losers in a trade. Lots of moving parts involved and declarative statements like "there is nothing like trade deficits" and "there are no winners or loser in a trade " is not helping.

I bet u that most people disagreeing with u would rather prefer having a trade surplus(regardless if that deficit arose via spending savings or credit card spending) than a deficit if they had a business.

[Swordsmyth]

No, there isn't any guarantee that everybody lives happily ever after and becomes billionaires. The important thing is that they were free to make their own decisions. Things like tariffs says that somebody isn't capable of making their own decisions- or at least not the right ones. They need protecting.

The purposes of government are to administer justice domestically and protect the citizens from outside threats (including trade wars), lassez-faire applies to the domestic economy not to the external jungle.

The founders understood and that is why they gave the government the power to enact tariffs, they forbade export tariffs but the didn't even limit import tariffs.

[Swordsmyth]

Still with this ridiculously ignorant analogy?! lol. So, I guess your response would be to centrally-plan what people trade for because you know better than each individual what they should value?

I want government to respond when other countries engage in trade warfare against us, not to micromanage trade.

The truth is, in your faulty analogy, the person gained their wealth through trade and then squandered it. The trade wasn't the problem - it's what was done afterwards.

The person gained wealth through PRODUCTION and squandered it through CONSUMPTION, that's Econ 101.

[Swordsmyth]

I think this is the first time I have agree with u on anything. But there is something like a trade deficit and depending on how it is created, it can be bad. Take the situation we have in this country, we have been buying for years with a credit card that has interest that will bury us. I don't care what Ron Paul said but that cannot be a good thing.

Some people have this mindset that just because a voluntary trade is going on, everybody is winning. Well, it depends because there can definitely be winner and losers in a trade. Lots of moving parts involved and declarative statements like "there is nothing like trade deficits" and "there are no winners or loser in a trade " is not helping.

I bet u that most people disagreeing with u would rather prefer having a trade surplus(regardless if that deficit arose via spending savings or credit card spending) than a deficit if they had a business.

Today is weird, I was forced to agree with zippy in another thread.

[axiomata]

The purposes of government are to administer justice domestically and protect the citizens from outside threats (including trade wars), lassez-faire applies to the domestic economy not to the external jungle.

The founders understood and that is why they gave the government the power to enact tariffs, they forbade export tariffs but the didn't even limit import tariffs.

Hamilton was the one who favored protective tarrifs. The others used neutral low tariffs to raise revenue for a small constitutionally sized government.

https://www.cato.org/publications/co...-trade-history

[Swordsmyth]

The others used neutral low tariffs to raise revenue for a small constitutionally sized government.

https://www.cato.org/publications/co...-trade-history

Which is my position until somebody else starts a trade war.
You don't have to want protectionist tariffs to keep the option open for defense any more than you have to want conquest to keep a navy or an army or a militia around.

[goldenequity]

S.Korea
(URGENT) Moon tells gov't to consider all measures, including WTO process, against US. trade barriers
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nati...5F.html?sns=tw



btw...
Ivanka!

[specsaregood]

https://seekingalpha.com/pr/17094856...ing-facilities

PITTSBURGH, March 07, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- United States Steel Corporation (X) announced today it will restart one of two blast furnaces (“B” blast furnace) and the steelmaking facilities at its Granite City Works, an integrated steelmaking plant in Granite City, Ill. The additional capacity will support anticipated increased demand for steel in the United States from the pending action announced by President Donald J. Trump on March 1, 2018, as a result of the U.S. Department of Commerce Section 232 national security investigation on steel imports.

“Our Granite City Works facility and employees, as well as the surrounding community, have suffered too long from the unending waves of unfairly traded steel products that have flooded U.S. markets,” said U. S. Steel President and Chief Executive Officer David B. Burritt. “The Section 232 action announced by President Trump last week recognizes the significant threat steel imports pose to our national and economic security. The President’s strong leadership is needed to begin to level the playing field so companies like ours can compete, win and create jobs that support our employees and the communities in which we operate as well as strengthen our national and economic security. We will continue to support our customers with the high-quality products they have come to expect from U. S. Steel.”

The company anticipates calling back approximately 500 employees beginning this month. The restart process could take up to four months.

“We’ve worked closely and cooperatively with leadership of the United Steelworkers to develop a plan that will help us work through the restart process in the safest, most efficient manner possible while enabling longer-term collaboration designed to improve the plant’s competitiveness,” Burritt said. “We appreciate and thank the USW leadership and membership for their passionate efforts around the Section 232 investigation as well as in support of the restart process at Granite City Works. Together, we are committed to ensuring the steel industry remains a fundamental part of American manufacturing because American manufacturing is stronger with American-made steel.”

The company expects to provide information on the anticipated financial impact of the restart as more details on the President’s executive order become available for analysis in the coming days.

Both Granite City Works blast furnaces and its steelmaking facilities were idled in December 2015 and the plant’s hot strip mill was idled in January 2016 in response to challenging market conditions, including global excess steel capacity and unfairly traded imports. The pickle line, cold mill and finishing lines at Granite City Works continued to operate in line with customer demand. The hot strip mill was restarted in February 2017 as the company adjusted its hot strip mill operating configuration to meet customer needs after deciding to accelerate the pace of its asset revitalization efforts. Granite City's “A” blast furnace remains idled.

[Ender]

President Donald Trump’s plan to impose tariffs on aluminum and steel imports is a near-term credit positive for steel producers, but it will hurt steel-consuming manufacturers and their workers, who greatly outnumber steelworkers, Moody’s Investors Service said Friday.

There are about 140,000 steelworkers in the U.S., according to the American Iron & Steel Institute, and about 6.5 million workers in steel-consuming manufacturers, Moody’s analysts wrote in reports published Friday.

“Workers in these consuming sectors will likely be hurt by higher steel prices,” they said. “Domestic manufacturers could also eventually switch to importing whole components of finished products that are made from steel to reduce their product costs, which would lead to reduced domestic steel demand in the long term.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...ers-2018-03-02

[nobody's_hero]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...ers-2018-03-02

They're gonna need to expand.

[Anti Federalist]

Unlimited "free trade" practiced by one nation is like unilateral disarmament.

Unless every nation is willing to drop all its trade restrictions, tariffs, internal subsidies, domestic regulations, environmental fatwas and so on, "free trade" is economic suicide.

[nobody's_hero]

Unlimited "free trade" practiced by one nation is like unilateral disarmament.

Unless every nation is willing to drop all its trade restrictions, tariffs, internal subsidies, domestic regulations, environmental fatwas and so on, "free trade" is economic suicide.

That, and wars are generally still considered wars whether or not you choose to fight. It only takes one side to start a war, and China has been in a trade war with us for a while now.

[specsaregood]

Unlimited "free trade" practiced by one nation is like unilateral disarmament.

Unless every nation is willing to drop all its trade restrictions, tariffs, internal subsidies, domestic regulations, environmental fatwas and so on, "free trade" is economic suicide.

And lets not forget that much --perhaps all -- of the free trade problem is caused by the federal reserve and the fact that we have the world reserve currency and unlimited credit card. It has allowed us to get fat and not produce anything except debt. Without that, we would have no choice but to produce goods to sell, less we starve.

If I wanted to destroy the US utterly, it sounds like a great plan... Let them live high on the hog until they no longer have any manufacturing base, then cancel the credit card and let them starve.

[nikcers]

And lets not forget that much --perhaps all -- of the free trade problem is caused by the federal reserve and the fact that we have the world reserve currency and unlimited credit card. It has allowed us to get fat and not produce anything except debt. Without that, we would have no choice but to produce goods to sell, less we starve.

If I wanted to destroy the US utterly, it sounds like a great plan... Let them live high on the hog until they no longer have any manufacturing base, then cancel the credit card and let them starve.

Yeah but free markets and free trade is what made America into an economic superpower. The left wants you to think it was slave trade but the truth is a lot of people poured their money into America -they wanted to avoid regulation and taxes in their own country. The idea is money goes where it is welcome- the idea of lowering taxes was to bring money back here, and it worked, Apple brought back 300 Billion. Now you are going to increase taxes which is just going to make money not want to come here.

[specsaregood]

Yeah but free markets and free trade is what made America into an economic superpower. The left wants you to think it was slave trade but the truth is a lot of people poured their money into America -they wanted to avoid regulation and taxes in their own country. The idea is money goes where it is welcome- the idea of lowering taxes was to bring money back here, and it worked, Apple brought back 300 Billion. Now you are going to increase taxes which is just going to make money not want to come here.

And perhaps high tariffs will cause a mass exit from using the USD as the world reserve currency... and forcing us to have to compete again.

[nikcers]

And perhaps high tariffs will cause a mass exit from using the USD as the world reserve currency... and forcing us to have to compete again.

This will increase prices which increases our taxes we have to pay if we ever get passed stagflation and get to inflation. Then if we are lucky the bad money from all this government spending hasn't driven out of all the good money in our country. My prediction is the government will be too big for us to do anything about it at this pace.

[axiomata]

While the tarrifs will help precipitate or worsen the coming economic collapse, the worst part is that they will be scapegoated as the main cause, and the principal culprit the Fed will get off Scott free.

[dannno]

US is starting this one.

You've got to be $#@!ting me.

[The Northbreather]

So, I think remedial economics is in order for you. You're crossing your wires trying to make this analogy. But in theory, if what you are getting is more valuable to you than your money, then yes! Because you'd have goods to sell for more money later. You only trade to INCREASE your wealth - not to decrease it. What you seem to be suggesting is that we are trading more dollars than the value we are getting in return - but that is obviously not true. If it were, the trade wouldn't happen.

Yes and we PRINT THAT MONEY as well. It’s not like they’re stealing our dollars. We’re getting inexpensive products for printed money.

Tariffs are a tax on the American people plain and simple.

[devil21]

Tariffs? Or just the coming revaluation of currencies, making imports more expensive for dollar users (end of global dollar) and imports more affordable for yuan users.

[CaptUSA]

Unlimited "free trade" practiced by one nation is like unilateral disarmament.

Unless every nation is willing to drop all its trade restrictions, tariffs, internal subsidies, domestic regulations, environmental fatwas and so on, "free trade" is economic suicide.

You do realize that Ron Paul advocates for exactly that - dropping ALL of our trade restrictions regardless of what other countries may do. I'm closer to Ron Paul on this (although, I make some allowances to use lowering our current restrictions as leverage where possible). "Free trade" is nothing but good news for the country that would practice it.

They key to remember when trading is that you only do it when you gain more wealth out of it - otherwise, you wouldn't make the trade. You don't need governments to tell you that your trade isn't "fair" enough. That's between the people trading. If they both see the benefit, the trade happens and both parties are more wealthy than previously.