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Thread: It costs $26,000 to mine one bitcoin in South Korea — and just $530 in Venezuela

  1. #1

    It costs $26,000 to mine one bitcoin in South Korea — and just $530 in Venezuela

    Bitcoin mining is costing South Koreans a lot of money.

    Mining just one bitcoin in one of the world's biggest digital currency markets costs $26,170, according to data released by lighting and furniture firm Elite Fixtures.

    So-called bitcoin miners are vital to keeping the underlying blockchain, or distributed ledger, network tick. A blockchain network is essentially a huge decentralized database that maintains a continuously growing record of transactions or other data. Miners solve complex mathematical problems to validate transactions and add them to the blockchain.

    The Elite Fixtures data also showed that Venezuela is the cheapest country in which to mine bitcoin. It costs $531 to mine the world's best known virtual currency there. Some Venezuelans have turned to bitcoin mining for survival in the economically struggling South American country.

    And Venezuela President Nicolas Maduro is banking on a cryptocurrency called "petro," backed by the country's oil, gas, gold and diamond reserves, as a way to get around U.S. sanctions.

    Mining digital currency uses up a lot of electricity, as miners utilize huge rigs of computers for the process. However, in return for their work, voluntary miners are rewarded with a sum of bitcoin as well as a transaction fee paid by people who transact with the cryptocurrency.

    According to Blockchain.info data, the total revenue earned by all bitcoin miners hit an all-time high of $53 million on December 17, the same day that bitcoin notched its highest price ever of $19,783.21.

    The Elite Fixtures study analyzed electricity prices from 115 different countries, using data provided by governments, utility firms and the International Energy Agency. It worked out the price of power consumption based on averages from three popular cryptocurrency mining rigs.





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  3. #2
    Good luck with the heat, lack of resources, and $#@!ty living conditions.

  4. #3
    That is probably due to their exagerated tier rates for electricity.

    The former six-stage system charges 60.7 won (USD$0.051) per kilowatt-hour until 100 kWh are accumulated. The price more than doubles to 125.9 won between 100 and 200 kWh, and proceeds to run up to 709.5 won ($0.594) per kilowatt-hour after 500 kWh, or 11.7 times the minimum rate.
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/403...ose-challenges

    59 cents per kWh is pretty hefty at the upper tier, but the initial 6 cents pKw is quite cheap.

    The article is a couple months old and the situation was clearly in flux, but that upper tier seems to be what they are calculating the cost off of.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  5. #4
    Can somebody tell me, in a simple thumbnail, how one "mines" bitcoins?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Can somebody tell me, in a simple thumbnail, how one "mines" bitcoins?
    Very short- buy an expensive computer and use lots of electricity to try to solve a math problem. If you are right, you get you reward. Not a candy bar but a digital number.

    Some more info:

    https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...-bitcoins.aspx
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-16-2018 at 03:26 PM.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Can somebody tell me, in a simple thumbnail, how one "mines" bitcoins?
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Can somebody tell me, in a simple thumbnail, how one "mines" bitcoins?
    In the beginning they used graphics cards to solve cryptographic puzzles (essentially guessing a string from a hash, a hash being a portion of the string). They call that hashing. The miner who guesses the correct string gets rewarded bitcoin. Most small miners combine into mining pools so they (the entire pool) has a chance to guess correctly and split the reward accordingly. Mining is what helps verify the transactions on the blockchain (the blockchain is a ledger of all the transactions) so that wallets can read the blockchain and recognize the value that they have in them. Then you can push a transaction onto the blockchain and have it verified by the miners and add to the blockchain.

    Back then the mining difficulty was low, and you got a lot of bitcoins easily mining on your graphics card.

    Once more miners came in as the value of bitcoin rose the difficulty increased and eventually they invented specialized processors called ASIC chips and mining bitcoin with a graphics card became obsolete.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-16-2018 at 04:14 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    In the beginning they used graphics cards to solve cryptographic puzzles (essentially guessing a string from a hash, a hash being a portion of the string). They call that hashing. The miner who guesses the correct string gets rewarded bitcoin. Most small miners combine into mining pools so they (the entire pool) has a chance to guess correctly and split the reward accordingly. Mining is what helps verify the transactions on the blockchain (the blockchain is a ledger of all the transactions) so that wallets can read the blockchain and recognize the value that they have in them. Then you can push a transaction onto the blockchain and have it verified by the miners and add to the blockchain.

    Back then the mining difficulty was low, and you got a lot of bitcoins easily mining on your graphics card.

    Once more miners came in as the value of bitcoin rose the difficulty increased and eventually they invented specialized processors called ASIC chips and mining bitcoin with a graphics card became obsolete.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Can somebody tell me, in a simple thumbnail, how one "mines" bitcoins?
    Its a metaphor for having your computer doing pointless math problems for digital "money".

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Very short- buy an expensive computer and use lots of electricity to try to solve a math problem. If you are right, you get you reward. Not a candy bar but a digital number.

    Some more info:

    https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...-bitcoins.aspx
    I haven't linked through...a "reward" from whom...for doing what?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Its a metaphor for having your computer doing pointless math problems for digital "money".
    Which, at some point can be converted into FRNs, which can then be traded for real money, gold and silver?

    I'm honestly having a Homer moment with this...


  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I haven't linked through...a "reward" from whom...for doing what?
    Data on computers can be easily copied, thus if you created a digital currency without protections in place you would have a major problem with counterfeiting.

    The miners help validate the blockchain to ensure that there is no double spending by the people with the coins, so you couldn't say transact $200 to two people at the same time, they think they have your money but it turns out it was just a copy.

    So you could have a centralized computer like at the bank that keeps track and ensures there is no double spending, but then they control the servers and can erase your funds... So what Satoshi did was create an open source, decentralized ledger that is maintained and verified by thousands of computers all over the world that help track each transaction and ensure there is no fraud.

    That is essentially what the miners do, by solving these cryptographic puzzles. They get paid in bitcoin, which causes a known, fixed, small amount of inflation. But they can also get paid miner fees that come from transaction fees, as the amount of bitcoin rewarded for solving a block halves every now and then, eventually approaching zero.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-16-2018 at 06:59 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Which, at some point can be converted into FRNs, which can then be traded for real money, gold and silver?

    I'm honestly having a Homer moment with this...
    There is no need to convert bitcoin to FRNs, unless you want to. You can trade bitcoin directly for goods and services including gold and silver. That is the goal. However, retailers who accept bitcoin generally make rent payments and such in FRNs, so they would need to convert at least some of their BTC to FRNs to cover costs and such.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    There is no need to convert bitcoin to FRNs, unless you want to. You can trade bitcoin directly for goods and services including gold and silver. That is the goal. However, retailers who accept bitcoin generally make rent payments and such in FRNs, so they would need to convert at least some of their BTC to FRNs to cover costs and such.
    But how much bitcoin is actually being used to buy things with? Most is being kept because they think it will be worth more in the future.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    But how much bitcoin is actually being used to buy things with? Most is being kept because they think it will be worth more in the future.
    A lot.

    Some people's lives have depended on it, others not so much, just using it as a rebellious act against the system.. some using it to by drugs, etc.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Data on computers can be easily copied, thus if you created a digital currency without protections in place you would have a major problem with counterfeiting.

    The miners help validate the blockchain to ensure that there is no double spending by the people with the coins, so you couldn't say transact $200 to two people at the same time, they think they have your money but it turns out it was just a copy.

    So you could have a centralized computer like at the bank that keeps track and ensures there is no double spending, but then they control the servers and can erase your funds... So what Satoshi did was create an open source, decentralized ledger that is maintained and verified by thousands of computers all over the world that help track each transaction and ensure there is no fraud.

    That is essentially what the miners do, by solving these cryptographic puzzles. They get paid in bitcoin, which causes a known, fixed, small amount of inflation. But they can also get paid miner fees that come from transaction fees, as the amount of bitcoin rewarded for solving a block halves every now and then, eventually approaching zero.
    Ok, I guess I'm beginning to understand.

    Somehow or another these bitcoin "miners" monitor every single bitcoin transaction globally, and I'm assuming anonymously, because what would be the point if not, in so doing they prevent fraud, and get paid a small percentage for doing so.

    But it takes lots of computing power and electric power to do it.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Ok, I guess I'm beginning to understand.

    Somehow or another these bitcoin "miners" monitor every single bitcoin transaction globally, and I'm assuming anonymously, because what would be the point if not, in so doing they prevent fraud, and get paid a small percentage for doing so.

    But it takes lots of computing power and electric power to do it.
    No, the opposite of anonymous, everything on bitcoin is public which is the point really. Everything is public, so nothing can be cheated.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Its a metaphor for having your computer doing pointless math problems for digital "money".
    SETI@home - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI@home - but this time the prize is "money"

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    SETI@home - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI@home - but this time the prize is "money"
    Bitcoin may be more real than aliens in our galaxy, lol..

    But there is also FLDC Folding Coin Folding@Home from Stanford University, they are using the computing power to solve complex protein sequencing to help discover cures for cancer and other diseases while simultaneously maintaining the blockchain.

    I bought like $40 worth a few years ago, a month ago it was worth $20k lol..thanks presence
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Bitcoin may be more real than aliens in our galaxy, lol..

    But there is also FLDC Folding Coin Folding@Home from Stanford University, they are using the computing power to solve complex protein sequencing to help discover cures for cancer and other diseases while simultaneously maintaining the blockchain.

    I bought like $40 worth a few years ago, a month ago it was worth $20k lol..thanks presence
    Looks like the scam is doing quite well.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Looks like the scam is doing quite well.
    Ya, tens of thousands of lives have already been saved, my evil master plan is unfolding quite nicely.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, tens of thousands of lives have already been saved, my evil master plan is unfolding quite nicely.
    Do you know what the next scam is going to be?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Do you know what the next scam is going to be?
    Yes, we plan to scam the government by providing alternative currencies to the marketplace so that the people can have the option of casting away government currencies.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    No, the opposite of anonymous, everything on bitcoin is public which is the point really. Everything is public, so nothing can be cheated.
    Why would I want all my transactions posted in public?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Why would I want all my transactions posted in public?
    Because it feels good to be on the right side of history and computer programmers would never cheat you out of cash.

  30. #26
    And Venezuela President Nicolas Maduro is banking on a cryptocurrency called "petro," backed by the country's oil, gas, gold and diamond reserves, as a way to get around U.S. sanctions.
    Looks like somebody might have some WMDs...
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.



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