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Thread: "Self-Driving Cars Will Cause Riots" America's First Anti-Automation Candidate

  1. #31

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    I’m sorry, but I think you guys are succumbing to your fears.

    Human wants are unlimited and resources are limited. Until technology can change that calculus, your worries are unfounded. And technology will NEVER change that truth. Sure, there will be adjustments, but your fears indicate a basic misunderstanding of human nature. We will never be satisfied. Therefore, any efficiencies we gain will be applied to other areas of interest. If you can’t trust in this, then why even fight for freedom?!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Iím sorry, but I think you guys are succumbing to your fears.

    Human wants are unlimited and resources are limited. Until technology can change that calculus, your worries are unfounded. And technology will NEVER change that truth. Sure, there will be adjustments, but your fears indicate a basic misunderstanding of human nature. We will never be satisfied. Therefore, any efficiencies we gain will be applied to other areas of interest. If you canít trust in this, then why even fight for freedom?!
    I think that this coming 4th wave of industrial revolution does change that calculus, radically and profoundly.

    A primary human want is to be needed and productive. This will eliminate that.

    I don't trust this because the change in that calculus, will result in the utter destruction of individual liberty, both as a concept and a tangible commodity.

    So yes, I do fear it, with good reason.

    We Luddites are scorned for "fearing" the future, as if all fear is a bad thing.

    Healthy fear and avoidance of a rattlesnake is not a bad thing.

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    A primary human want is to be needed and productive.
    LOL. How did you slap these two together? Being needed is actually about getting attention. I doubt being productive should be anybody's goal. This advice can actually be detrimental to your career as you will stand out and be discriminated against. I hope your second job isn't a career coach.
    Truth is a social construct.

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I’m sorry, but I think you guys are succumbing to your fears.

    Human wants are unlimited and resources are limited. Until technology can change that calculus, your worries are unfounded. And technology will NEVER change that truth. Sure, there will be adjustments, but your fears indicate a basic misunderstanding of human nature. We will never be satisfied. Therefore, any efficiencies we gain will be applied to other areas of interest. If you can’t trust in this, then why even fight for freedom?!

    I think you're misunderstanding my stance. I don't really fear the path we're on, but rather have difficulty coming to terms with some of the ways the path will affect and alter us from a social standpoint. And it's ironic that you ask, "why even fight for freedom?" because that's where my difficulty lies.

    Sense of privacy as we know it will be gone soon. We're within 30 years of seeing everything around us connected to the IoT (Internet of Things), and I mean everything. Our clothes, our wallpaper, our toothbrushes, our toilets, ect. It'll have incredible benefits to things like the medical industry is one harped on boon because if you have a stroke in your back yard your clothes will diagnose you and notify your local hospital while deploying an ambulance drone with the EMTs being made fully aware of your medical history and condition while en route. But the worrisome aspects would be when you urinated after you woke up your toilet alerted your insurance company you had non-prescribed or illegal drugs in your system and your insurance was canceled. Or perhaps your personal transportation (car, drone, ect) has been remotely disabled for 24 hours. Depending on laws, maybe you've got law enforcement on the way with a warrant to search your home and for your arrest issued due to your urinalysis (which your toilet does every time you use it).

    But the main topic of this thread has stemmed around economics....

    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    The sad realization for me (sad as it violates my libertarian philosophy regarding governments and economics) is that we're going to see some kind of radical shift. Whether it's some form of a UBI or even a path that leads us to completely abandoning money (or at least as to how we understand it) is hard to say.

    I agree with CptUSA's assertions that as AI blossoms it will allow man more free time to pursue whatever we want, whether it's to learn to play an instrument, further our personal education on a field of interest, or travel. However, his optimism (and I say this observantly, not maliciously) is a long term logic and not acknowledging the point being made of concern for the transition period. Massive chunks of a population suffering from unemployment doesn't tend to be very patient while they watch bills stack up. And that plays into jllundqu's point of how the optimistic point of view conveniently skips over that initial transition and how many things unpredictable can come into play and derail a lot of hopeful patience.

    That's not fear, nor is it ignoring human behavior. Point of fact, it's being proactively aware of human nature. I haven't seen anyone advocate attempts to stop technological advances. Rather I've seen people trying to advocate awareness and work the problem proactively well before it does become a problem and being stuck in the middle of that storm trying to solve it reactively.

    At least that is my position with it, because for all the grand things this technological revolution can lead to for us.....we have to prepare for the bumpy road we have to cross to get to that new "highway".
    "Self conquest is the greatest of all victories." - Plato

  6. #35

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    "You need govt to protect you from Guns and Crazy People".

    Never forget to look at who benefits from this. Who would benefit from a fully disarmed population? Who would benefit from further dismantling of the family by replacing the mother and father with State as the surrogate parent?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What do you base that on? Personal wishing?

    The technology is already here, Boeing has tested automated planes already.

    In ten years I can see the PIC's role reduced to nothing more than a monitor: the whole flight op will be automated from gate to gate.

    Incorrect for a variety of reasons.

    It's not a matter of technology.


    If you want some serious and informed discussion from industry pros, just search "automation" on this site: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  8. #37

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    Kind of a crazy video.



    I understand the economic argument. Most people today wouldn't have a skill set that would have worked for jobs in 1918. Change is good for growth.

    It does seem problematic that government schools don't teach people how adapt to technological change. When 40% of current jobs are eliminated in the next 20 years, I am not optimistic about the ability for people to cope.

  9. #38

  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Incorrect for a variety of reasons.

    It's not a matter of technology.

    If you want some serious and informed discussion from industry pros, just search "automation" on this site: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/
    Matt, that's a bunch of confirmation bias coming from folks who are "whistling past the graveyard" just like you are, because they are all just as scared for their jobs and of a future that does not need them anymore.

    I can pull up the same sort of thing from half a dozen mariner's sites as well.

    They'll deny it's happening, as it's happening to them.

    You said trains weren't automated, yet the fact is hundreds and hundreds of train systems are, hauling millions and millions of people every year, with no human operators of any kind.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 02-14-2018 at 10:53 PM.

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intoxiklown View Post
    I know (and agree to an extent) that the response is new jobs and industry will be created by virtue of these changes. But being optimistic and saying these new markets will emerge after only 5 years still means that several million will be doing good to get a job flipping burgers for that period. And while people can cite precedents from other industrial revolutions as a guide for how this new 4th revolution we're watching being born, that argument falls apart when it's accepted that this industrial revolution isn't geared towards moving people faster. It's not geared towards maximizing the farmland able to be cultivated per person. Meaning, this technological advance we're witnessing isn't geared towards a few specific markets. It's geared towards replacing the one thing every single industry has in common.....us.
    To come back to this once more, toxik is more correct than you know.

    The vast bulk of humanity has but one single commodity to sell on the market: their time and "knowhow".

    Render millions, billions of people "bankrupt" overnight and, well, I can't quite say just how bad it will get, but it will be pretty $#@!ing bad.

  12. #41

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    Chinese drone maker EHANG has posted footage of the latest test flights of its EHANG 184 passenger-carrying all-electric autonomous aerial vehicle.

    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 02-14-2018 at 11:26 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #42

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    Automatic elevators are going to put a lot of people out of work. I think that Elevator repair people probably make more money with the same education as lift operators made though.I don't know if there is ever going to be a tool that replaces humans, people will just use tools to become more efficient. Some people would argue the smartest man in the world is a cyborg, who has given us more knowledge then we would have ever gotten without the technology that gives him a voice.

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Automatic elevators
    Washing machines.

    There are some concerns, of course, about the role of government with regards to autonomous cars, but dear of them seems silly to me.

    I think that people's minds will change when they realize that they could potentially save an enormous amount of their personal time and money through their use.
    Last edited by TheCount; 02-15-2018 at 02:13 AM.
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  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I think that people's minds will change when they realize that they could potentially save an enormous amount of their personal time and money through their use.
    That's very insightful, Nostradamus.
    Truth is a social construct.

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Matt, that's a bunch of confirmation bias coming from folks who are "whistling past the graveyard" just like you are, because they are all just as scared for their jobs and of a future that does not need them anymore.

    I can pull up the same sort of thing from half a dozen mariner's sites as well.

    They'll deny it's happening, as it's happening to them.

    You said trains weren't automated, yet the fact is hundreds and hundreds of train systems are, hauling millions and millions of people every year, with no human operators of any kind.
    In the US there are no automated trains, except for some closed circuit sort of things (think airport people movers).


    On to flying....

    Yes planes can almost fly themselves now. In fact it is possible that a plane can autonomously fly from origin to destination.

    However, that's not what the pilots are for. A monkey can fly a plane, it isn't that hard most of the time.

    Pilots are paid to make decisions and handle emergencies. AI is decades away from being at that same capacity.


    Could planes be piloted remotely? Yes, but that is not 100% reliable. Not to mention the security issue (what happens if feed is intercepted, blocked, etc?)


    When automated general aviation comes in to being it will likely first happen with cargo. But even then it will only move down to one pilot. The FAA is not going to let an aircraft of any size traverse US airspace without a human on board that can take control. And again, when they do allow it, it will be decades away.


    When airline passenger aircraft become "automated" you might also see a reduction to a single crewmember. But only after it has been proven for years in cargo ops.

    I don't think we will see full automation of passenger airlines within our lifetime, the AI just isn't there yet. We are a long ways away, decades at the minimum.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    In the US there are no automated trains, except for some closed circuit sort of things (think airport people movers).


    On to flying....

    Yes planes can almost fly themselves now. In fact it is possible that a plane can autonomously fly from origin to destination.

    However, that's not what the pilots are for. A monkey can fly a plane, it isn't that hard most of the time.

    Pilots are paid to make decisions and handle emergencies. AI is decades away from being at that same capacity.


    Could planes be piloted remotely? Yes, but that is not 100% reliable. Not to mention the security issue (what happens if feed is intercepted, blocked, etc?)


    When automated general aviation comes in to being it will likely first happen with cargo. But even then it will only move down to one pilot. The FAA is not going to let an aircraft of any size traverse US airspace without a human on board that can take control. And again, when they do allow it, it will be decades away.


    When airline passenger aircraft become "automated" you might also see a reduction to a single crewmember. But only after it has been proven for years in cargo ops.

    I don't think we will see full automation of passenger airlines within our lifetime, the AI just isn't there yet. We are a long ways away, decades at the minimum.
    We shall see...

  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    In the US there are no automated trains, except for some closed circuit sort of things (think airport people movers).
    This self driving consist serves JFK at NYC with no human operator over 8 miles of standard gauge tracks.

    Would you call it a train or a "people mover"?

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 02-15-2018 at 01:32 PM.

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    In the US there are no automated trains, except for some closed circuit sort of things (think airport people movers).
    Incorrect.

    There are unmanned switch engines in very nearly every rail yard in the nation. You must be the only person on this forum who has never seen signs by railroad crossings which say locomotive cabs may be empty.
    MACA!

    Make Americans Cucks Again!

  20. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Incorrect.

    There are unmanned switch engines in very nearly every rail yard in the nation. You must be the only person on this forum who has never seen signs by railroad crossings which say locomotive cabs may be empty.
    I had forgotten about that...

  21. #50

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    Not to many miles from where I live, self driving trials will take place with four seater, spacecraft vehicles.

    I'm eager for the technology to sort of take off. I of course don't have a license to drive, where I live, it isn't worth it or needed. Unless driving is an occupation.

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