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Thread: Trump administration to allow lifetime limits on Medicaid

  1. #1

    Trump administration to allow lifetime limits on Medicaid

    Just weeks after unveiling guidance that will allow states to impose Medicaid work requirements, Trump’s Health and Human Services agency is reportedly attempting to limit the number of months adults have access to the safety net program. The cap, if approved, would be the first of its kind in Medicaid’s history.

    More at: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-medi...-70965a6cab92/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    But you can pay for it every check...

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  4. #3
    Medicaid covers over 30 million children , more than half of those are not disabled and yet it is the able bodied adults burning all the medicaid dollars ( 81 percent of the total spending ) .

  5. #4
    I suppose you could just boot all the able bodied adults off and set up a fund for the disabled children and eliminate it all together .

  6. #5
    What are states spending lottery dollars , cigarette , wine , beer and liquor taxes they are collecting on ?

  7. #6
    Remember , cutting spending is good .

  8. #7
    A bit hypocritical for Trump considering he ran on taking care of the poor people and cutting spending. Instead we get increased military spending but a cut to a program essentially for poor, sick and disabled on the margins of society.

    I am bit leery of this legislation due to the forced slavery aspect that looms with possible reintroduction of individual mandates at the state level.
    You cannot have an individual mandate and not have Medicaid. The mandate forces poor people to chose between food, shelter and the mandate. If they do not pay they end up further in poverty or bankrupt, this is where Medicaid comes in. The problem is something like a dozen states have announced reintroducing their own individual mandate which would effectively be government sponsored slavery.

    Also what about Americans that paid in end up at some point legitimately disabled and what if for too long? They get screwed while illegals and other protected groups will continue to get it for free or some other free option the rest are denied.

    However the benefit is groups like Hasidic Jews taking advantage would finally come off Medicaid for significant savings. But then the rest of us get screwed again due to the cost burden providers would suffer with all the non-payers.

    You want to start screwing with the system, then free market healthcare should be in place first.
    Last edited by kahless; 02-06-2018 at 09:27 PM.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    A bit hypocritical for Trump considering he ran on taking care of the poor people and cutting spending. Instead we get increased military spending but a cut to a program essentially for poor, sick and disabled on the margins of society.

    I am bit leery of this legislation due to the forced slavery aspect that looms with possible reintroduction of individual mandates at the state level.
    You cannot have an individual mandate and not have Medicaid. The mandate forces poor people to chose between food, shelter and the mandate. If they do not pay they end up further in poverty or bankrupt, this is where Medicaid comes in. The problem is something like a dozen states have announced reintroducing their own individual mandate which would effectively be government sponsored slavery.

    Also what about Americans that paid in end up at some point legitimately disabled and what if for too long? They get screwed while illegals and other protected groups will continue to get it for free or some other free option the rest are denied.

    However the benefit is groups like Hasidic Jews taking advantage would finally come off Medicaid for significant savings. But then the rest of us get screwed again due to the cost burden providers would suffer with all the non-payers.

    You want to start screwing with the system, then free market healthcare should be in place first.
    Not following the slavery analogy. Having other people pay for your healthcare while you go out and buy nice rims and smart phones does not sound like slavery to me.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 02-06-2018 at 10:13 PM.



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  11. #9
    I am fine with any dollar limitations the states want to impose at this point on the able bodied especially .

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Not following the slavery analogy. Having other people pay for your healthcare while you go out and buy nice rims and smart phones does not sound like slavery to me.
    You missed the two prior sentences since that is not even relevant to what I described. If the states bring back the individual mandate you have to keep Medicaid. Otherwise you are forcing people to chose between food, shelter vs mandated health insurance. Forcing people to buy a product they cannot afford is a form of slavery.

    I raised this issue after seeing this article since it has been preceded the last few days about states looking to bring back the mandate.

    9 states considering individual mandate rules: report
    http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...e-rules-report
    Last edited by kahless; 02-06-2018 at 11:10 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    A bit hypocritical for Trump considering he ran on taking care of the poor people and cutting spending. Instead we get increased military spending but a cut to a program essentially for poor, sick and disabled on the margins of society.

    I am bit leery of this legislation due to the forced slavery aspect that looms with possible reintroduction of individual mandates at the state level.
    You cannot have an individual mandate and not have Medicaid. The mandate forces poor people to chose between food, shelter and the mandate. If they do not pay they end up further in poverty or bankrupt, this is where Medicaid comes in. The problem is something like a dozen states have announced reintroducing their own individual mandate which would effectively be government sponsored slavery.

    Also what about Americans that paid in end up at some point legitimately disabled and what if for too long? They get screwed while illegals and other protected groups will continue to get it for free or some other free option the rest are denied.

    However the benefit is groups like Hasidic Jews taking advantage would finally come off Medicaid for significant savings. But then the rest of us get screwed again due to the cost burden providers would suffer with all the non-payers.

    You want to start screwing with the system, then free market healthcare should be in place first.
    The mandate is dead next year.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The mandate is dead next year.
    At the federal level. Some states are looking to do their own in place of it.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    You missed the two prior sentences since that is not even relevant to what I described. If the states bring back the individual mandate you have to keep Medicaid. Otherwise you are forcing people to chose between food, shelter vs mandated health insurance. Forcing people to buy a product they cannot afford is a form of slavery.

    I raised this issue after seeing this article since it has been preceded the last few days about states looking to bring back the mandate.

    9 states considering individual mandate rules: report
    http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...e-rules-report
    Then the problem is the states' mandates not the feds' Medicaid reform.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Then the problem is the states' mandates not the feds' Medicaid reform.
    I believe all the new healthcare related repeals should be phased in after the market has had a time to ramp up with the new reforms. It is going to take time for competition across state lines to make a difference in insurance premiums. Will have to see how they are going to phase it in.

    The concern is sky high insurances premiums, no marketplace subsidies and then no Medicaid for the poor - elderly, long term sick and mentally ill. Then you have states implementing an individual mandate on top of it like pouring gasoline on the fire.

    This while we watch the military budget grow and grow.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I believe all the new healthcare related repeals should be phased in after the market has had a time to ramp up with the new reforms. It is going to take time for competition across state lines to make a difference in insurance premiums. Will have to see how they are going to phase it in.

    The concern is sky high insurances premiums, no marketplace subsidies and then no Medicaid for the poor - elderly, long term sick and mentally ill. Then you have states implementing an individual mandate on top of it like pouring gasoline on the fire.

    .
    There is nothing in the constitution that makes any of this crap a federal issue. Rip it apart ASAP.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    You missed the two prior sentences since that is not even relevant to what I described. If the states bring back the individual mandate you have to keep Medicaid. Otherwise you are forcing people to chose between food, shelter vs mandated health insurance. Forcing people to buy a product they cannot afford is a form of slavery.

    I raised this issue after seeing this article since it has been preceded the last few days about states looking to bring back the mandate.

    9 states considering individual mandate rules: report
    http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...e-rules-report
    Yeah, but . . I don't think you understand that a lot of people who are on Medicaid are not actually drowning in poverty. There is a huge difference between being poor and being clueless with money/priorities.

    The issue is capping Medicaid. I think it is a good idea.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 02-09-2018 at 11:47 PM.



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  20. #17
    Commie state will be challenged in court on a mandate and lose. There should be nothing in the state constitutions that allow for that .

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Yeah, but . . I don't think you understand that a lot of people who are on Medicaid are not actually drowning in poverty. There is a huge difference between being poor and being clueless with money/priorities..
    Believe me I do and I absolutely agree it is a problem. I am just speculating on one aspect of it. I just do not want to see as a side effect the wrong people getting hit that were forced into the situation by government. We all know what Obamacare did to health insurance premiums and the mandate is another issue. There is also the obvious issue of the truly disabled.

    November elections are also coming.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Believe me I do and I absolutely agree it is a problem. I am just speculating on one aspect of it. I just do not want to see as a side effect the wrong people getting hit that were forced into the situation by government. We all know what Obamacare did to health insurance premiums and the mandate is another issue. There is also the obvious issue of the truly disabled.

    November elections are also coming.
    We forced them on, we can force them right back off.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless
    You want to start screwing with the system, then free market healthcare should be in place first.
    I think if you want to screw with the system you ought to stop buying insurance then doctors would be forced to lower their charges. My DiL pays about $500 a month for insurance. I find that completely outrageous. Until people stop letting insurance hold them over a barrel the prices are only going to go up.Doctors would lower their prices if people stopped buy insurance because they would not have to employ so many people to process claims. I think it is ok to buy hospitalization insurance in case of catastrophic illness or accident but to buy insurance to go to the doctor is stupid.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    I think if you want to screw with the system you ought to stop buying insurance then doctors would be forced to lower their charges. My DiL pays about $500 a month for insurance. I find that completely outrageous. Until people stop letting insurance hold them over a barrel the prices are only going to go up.Doctors would lower their prices if people stopped buy insurance because they would not have to employ so many people to process claims. I think it is ok to buy hospitalization insurance in case of catastrophic illness or accident but to buy insurance to go to the doctor is stupid.
    That is true. Insurance does inflate costs a bit. And it's almost like filing a lawsuit and demanding money as compensation. If you want $5,000 for your services, you ask for $10,000 and the insurance company will probably "settle" on $7,000. Really what you should be paying is more like $4,000. (those figures are just an example)

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    That is true. Insurance does inflate costs a bit. And it's almost like filing a lawsuit and demanding money as compensation. If you want $5,000 for your services, you ask for $10,000 and the insurance company will probably "settle" on $7,000. Really what you should be paying is more like $4,000. (those figures are just an example)
    A regular doctor visit should cost about $10. A specialist should get about $25. Routine surgeries should not cost more than $1000. You would probably be amazed at the people who go into health care primarily for the money. I don't want a doctor who's motivation is money. I want be treated by a healer not a greedy sob out of touch with their humanity. I know there are some good doctors and nurses but most of them get beat down by the system. I know a lot of health care people who have quit high paying jobs because they could not take all the bureaucracy creative, caring, sensitive people are not likely to be able to take it. Dentist are bad too. Most people would freak out if they knew how cheap dental materials are. Material for a $1000 crown cost about 5 cents. I bought enough material to make 100 teeth for about $10 that includes the adhesive. I helped several people who could not afford to go to a dentist make some teeth for themselves they were then able to go find a job. It is hard to find work when you have several teeth out in the front of your mouth. A few people had to get some different materials because what I had did not match the color of their teeth but it still only cost about $10 and they were able to help some of their friends and family make their own teeth with the left over materials. I have heard that some dentist are starting to come down on their prices because people can now go to ebay and buy a ready made cover for their teeth for under $20. If a person can follow the directions it looks fine certainly better than having a bunch of broken teeth. it is considered temporary but when you can't find a job because your front teeth look so bad that nobody will hire you it is important to have some kind of option. They are made by the people who make the "billy bob" teeth I think the company is call imako.



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