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Thread: Freedom has no hope...

  1. #1

    Default Freedom has no hope...

    Unless one of two things occur:



    1. The "movement" becomes sufficiently organized, or
    2. A "reset event" occurs.


    Addressing point the second, firstly: If worldwide plague, a large meteor strike, Jesus popping back in from wherever, aliens landing on the South Lawn, or something similar occurs, the utter disruption of the status quo would open the door to freedom enough such that if enough want it, we would have it. Many possible resets, however, are not the sorts of things anyone with the least shred of rational sanity would want. I'm not even sure about the Jesus thing, given the talk about him being a mite pissed with us.

    That leaves option one as the most likely, however currently unlikely, path forward.

    Why do we think the "left" is so successful?

    Organization, plain and simple. They are motivated, have sufficient common ground - the destruction of the status quo - and actually show up.

    Regarding that common ground - consider the advantages they hold per that bit. It is a single issue. It is simplicity itself - simplistic, in fact. As with everything "left", it has the ease of entropy on its side. Destruction is ALWAYS easier than creation. The "left" may one day rue its victory of bringing down the status quo, that is if the longer term vision is to live as something better than cavemen. Destruction is very easy. With a single match I can destroy a mansion in no time. With a large and capable construction crew, building one takes weeks or months. Entropy is easy if you are willing to live with the results.

    Now consider the "right's" task load - a common base view of what it means to be free, and having the will and decency to live by it. Creation of an order that supports freedom. The list goes on, but I will not bother you with lists at this time.

    The workload of those seeking freedom is at least two full orders of magnitude greater than that of the far-left "progressive" statists who seek at this time naught but the destruction of that which currently is.

    WRT the destruction issue, it is my suspicion that the left has no plan for life after the revolution - at least not the common man. The leaders may, but I wonder how well they have worked out the details. I further suspect that they have not worked them out much at all. Currently, Theye rely on hard-working middle-class people to provide all the "free" stuff to themselves and their constituents. When they win, who will provide for them in the wake of the destruction? That is a huge and very open question.

    Will the same people be around to do as they have done since the beginning? I believe they will, mostly, but will they continue to be willing? If not, what then? Slave labor camps? And if they are not around, who among the hordes of non-adept "lefties" are going to undertake the tasks that lie beyond the abilities required to ask "would you like fries with that?" The "left" has a huge problem of which they are either unaware, or stand in deep denial. Those who comprise their constituency are not only ill-bred, undisciplined, cowardly, weak, and proudly ignorant. They are, by virtue of those qualities that they chose to uphold as virtues wholly incapable of learning that which is needed in order to continue humanity's technological civilization. Worse yet, for them at least, they have neither the wherewithal nor the guts and will to survive in a more primitive idiom.

    In a word, the so-called "left" is begging to commit suicide. I don't care if they all died in the coming five minutes. I would gladly work on a crew to dispose of the bodies in huge burning piles just to be rid of their stupid selves. They will, however, take the rest of us with them if they are allowed to go much farther than they have come to date.

    All this will not likely alter the course of the "left" because they do not possess the mental capacity required to see it - a capacity that your average squirrel has in abundance. That is how blindly stoopid those people really are. If they win in the manner they so clearly desire, it will literally be the end of human civilization; a regression back to the tenth century, if the survivors are even to be that lucky.

    It is to this to which we have to look forward, given the stated goals of those claiming to be "progressive" - a return to medieval life.

    Now, if we assume the masters of the progressive household are not quite that stupid, it would mean that Theye intend on preserving the current class of people who do the actual heavy lifting in terms of making this technological civilization possible, both physically and intellectually. Given this, it would appear Theye have still miscalculated in some disastrous manner in that the order which they appear to want to foist upon the doers is one that the true makers of this world, the intellects and ethical laborers, will not much like. In fact I suspect the real New Order will be of such a nature that a great plurality of those who would have otherwise been out there, busting their humps to "make it", will throw up their hands and decide that since nothing they create is theirs, according to the Masters, there is no point in creation. Those people will give up and become just another raft of takers, expecting someone else to provide the basics.

    At some point, there will be insufficient means of sustaining the parasite class and Theye will be faced with a very fundamental decision: step off and let people be and do what they are and will, or press your non-adept serfs into service. We already know how that is going to work out. But if we assume it doesn't quite come flying apart, and if there is in Theire minds even the least aspiration to something better, even if just for themselves, Theye will need "muscle" mental as well as physical, to make it happen. The only way to get it will be a system of rewards, and once Theye go there, they have abandoned their own vision of absolute, dull, uniform equality and taken a step toward that which they campaigned and upon which they rained destruction.

    Theye are, in a word, $#@!s. Theye are some of the most impossibly blind and willfully stupid people ever born, as they lovingly labor to hate and destroy that which made Themme possible. The truth there is a Gordian Knot of idiocy so perfect as to defy all credulity. And Theye will never see it coming because even when it stares them in the puss, Theye will deny it. It's what Theye do.

    Despite all this, Theye have determination on their side, and plenty of money and organization. Those who proclaim freedom, do not. The "right" (just to be conversational) is fragmented. The task load for liberty is, as stated above, a hundred times more difficult because it entails creation, vis-ŗ-vis destruction. This all requires stout training, common and proper vision, self-control, discipline, resolution, ethics, decency, charity, and love. All the lefties need is hate and a will to destroy, both of which they hold in vast reserve.

    The "right" is a disaster area in terms of philosophical underpinnings. There is no unifying principle underlying the "liberty movement". Spouting "liberty!" is not it. Without full and rigorous definition, cries of "liberty!!" get us nowhere.

    Just look at the divisions - the stupid abortion debate is perhaps the poster child of this idiocy. It doesn't matter a whit whether one is "pro-" or "anti-". Neither side of the issue has the sense to table it until the greater war is won, at which time if they want to go at it, I will personally pass out the pistols and ammo.

    It is this small-minded quality that drives the wedges between people who are supposed to be on the same team. This is idiocy nonpareil. Look at how the "left" deals with this potential: they institute "PC" such that no matter what the one may think, he shuts it and sticks to the simplistic talking points, which are few. "Kick out the jams!" and nonsense like that - stuff to which ALL lefty fools cleave as starving infants to their mothers' nipples. This has served the inestimably great value of keeping the lefties off of each other's throats and at those of "the enemy". Meanwhile, the religious righties are damning the agnostic agorists to eternity in hell, and so forth down a drearily long list of items that are not supposed to be issues for lovers of freedom. They forget the very precepts they claim to hold as their guiding lights, such as the Golden Rule: Live. Let Live. IOW, STFU and MYOB. But no. The one calls for the damnation and imprisonment of those who say that MAYBE a woman is within her rights to abort a pregnancy in its first twelve hours, or that some tatt00-laden stooge is entitled to burn a spliff on the courthouse steps, and so forth.

    This is the primary reason that evil is going to prevail. We are too busy with our bull$#@!, while the evil is drilled and ready to rock.

    Laugh at it. Dismiss it. Call me "village idiot", if it makes you happy. It will make no matter in the end because unless "we" organize and get a single and common structure under our feet, we will see nothing of victory for liberty. And no, Trump's moves in the less-evil direction don't count for that much because we still labor under a framework of tyranny, if a smarter and kinder variety.

    OK, I guess I've said too much.
    Last edited by osan; 01-30-2018 at 12:43 PM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.





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  3. #2

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    As far as "freedom" goes the only freedom I know I can have is that of my spirit. I live my life as free as I can and encourage others to do so as well. I spread anarchy where ever I can. The only way to stop government is to show people that it is not needed. My spirit is free and I will drag my body along as far as it will go.

  4. #3

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    This is depressing.
    Truth is a social construct.

  5. #4

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    The only hope for peaceful improvement is CALExit followed by as any other LIBExits as possible, that is why I have said provoking CALExit is the best thing DJTvsg might do in office, other possible chance for improvement is civil war, a civil war that would be so bloody and destructive that it would set new records in the history books and which we would not be guaranteed to win.

    The insane left has become too large and too insane, until they are gone one way or the other there will be no possibility of creating an organized liberty movement with the power to compete in national politics, right now any and every idiot, fascist or fairly normal corrupt person who is scared of the insane left piles into the Swampublican party and keeps us from taking it over while preventing any successful launch of a 3rd party because "you have to vote Swampublican to stop the Demoncrats".
    If we were rid of the insane left the factions of the Swampublican party would split and we could either take it over or compete with the divided remnants.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The "movement" becomes sufficiently organized.
    This. We will never be organized because we cannot agree on five key talking points. We are not an inclusive movement, and unless that changes, we will never be organized enough to get a real, electable liberty candidate.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  7. #6

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    Oh ye of little faith.

  8. #7

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    Watch carefully for "Controlled Opposition".

    First thing I notice is the terms Left and Right. Opinions of both can be expressed to be very different, but BOTH can also be Controlled. Biggest trouble with the Left and Right paradigm is the association with bigger and smaller govt. Each side thinks that their own intention is for "better" govt. Trouble is that the actual associations with the terms Left and Right are not always for "better" govt, since "better" is a very subjective term. Another typical association is that "better" also means "smaller" govt, yet what both sides actually end up achieving is BOTH Left and Right calling for BIGGER govt in the long run. In order to move forward, people need to have a very clear understanding of what those associations truly result in as opposed to what they "think" it means.

    "Its not what you dont know that gets you into trouble, its what you absolutely know that simply aint so."
    - Mark Twain

    Every collective group typically has a leader, and the opinions of the people are typically given to the people instead of the other way around. Democracy is not about who has the best or most efficient or moral ideas, but the ideas of the person who can shout the loudest. Thing is, usually only one voice is put in front of everyone, and the easiest way to make sure that persons voice is heard over all other truly good ideas is to fund the person with the ideas that suit the Status Quo. This is how both the Left and Right can be controlled. Democrats and Republicans are two wings of the same bird that together, or in a bipartisan effort, continues to $#@! right on the windshield of Freedom. Once either side has been assigned a leader of either group, those leaders are then expected to assign their belief system to all other members of that group. This allows for those groups to be easily dismantled when they are no longer useful. Look at what happened to the whole "Occupy" movement. They were given a voice thru MSM recognition, then quickly dismantled after their respective elections. This happens over and over again, but always results in bigger govt, despite the people expressing Doublethink, where both sides say they want "better" or "smaller" govt and end up with "bigger" and "worse" govt.

    One of the biggest reason both the Left and Right continue to fail to achieve their goals is that they are both born of the idea that "Power comes from a Collective". It is this very Collective Mindset that allows people to be spoonfed their opinions and told what to think. The only real way to effectively resist a Collective Govt is to recognize that Collective People will always result in the same outcome. It is the Collective itself that people need to free themselves from, which means walking away from both Collective Govt and Collective Resistance. People need to retain their Individuality and dismiss any and all of the Collectivist ideas that created this current paradigm. In short, do not let others, even me, tell you what to think or how to think. Think for yourself, draw your own conclusions. Question everything.

    The next problem is that some form of government is a necessary force. Govt is a dangerous servant and as a master, a force to be absolutely terrified of. There are those in our society that will always cause harm to others. The idea of govt comes from the result of the recognition of these types of people, and our desire to either hold them accountable for their actions, or exclude them from a society of free individuals. Without any form of government at all, those harmful individuals are just as free to rob, steal, and cause harm to everyone as much as the individual is free to live the rest of their lives as they see fit. Without some form of government, the free individual is actually less free because they are not free to leave their homes and must spend their time and resources defending what they have. Too little government makes us just as less free as too much government.

    "The Essence of Freedom is the PROPER Limitation of Government."



    People will never be free so long as they support the paradigm of Collectivism that is not in balance with the true freedom of the individual. Today, we have a society that only concerns itself with the wellbeing of the society as a whole and has little to no regard for the individual to be free to both succeed and fail by their own will. Corporations have taken control of our Group Think by using our own minds against us and have effectively privatized their profits and subsidized their losses to be incurred by everyone else. Those large organized groups are the same as our resistance minded collective groups and have found it easier to create wealth for themselves by destroying what we survive on. This can only lead to the death of society as a whole, and in the end, the few people that are left may slowly regain their sanity by once again recognizing their own individuality and abandoning the collectivist mentality that has enslaved us all in some form.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgiaboy View Post
    Oh ye of little faith.
    Not a matter of faith, but of objective conclusions based on the standard of thousands of years of human history where the behavior is so predictable, one can set his watch by it and never err.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    This. We will never be organized because we cannot agree on five key talking points. We are not an inclusive movement, and unless that changes, we will never be organized enough to get a real, electable liberty candidate.
    Actually, it's that Liberty minded people have a need to make sense, think critically and form own opinions. Most Americans don't care about any of that. Listen to a segment of CSPAN callers and you'll see quickly why intelligent people are not who politicians talk to.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    First thing I notice is the terms Left and Right.
    But also notice that in every usage, the terms are enclosed in quotes, which I do very purposefully. I do not like the left/right paradigm, but use it for the sake of being more readily conversational. Otherwise, I spend 3x again as much text explaining and defining precise meanings. That is appropriate for a philosophical treatise, and even for many far more casual discussions, but I sometimes I just don't want to explain the same thing for the 5001st time. People generally understand "left" and "right" and I decided to let it go at that. Loosely goosey, but good enough for the present purposes.

    Just wanted to be clear on that point.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    But also notice that in every usage, the terms are enclosed in quotes, which I do very purposefully. I do not like the left/right paradigm, but use it for the sake of being more readily conversational. Otherwise, I spend 3x again as much text explaining and defining precise meanings. That is appropriate for a philosophical treatise, and even for many far more casual discussions, but I sometimes I just don't want to explain the same thing for the 5001st time. People generally understand "left" and "right" and I decided to let it go at that. Loosely goosey, but good enough for the present purposes.

    Just wanted to be clear on that point.
    No worries. I typically avoid the terms just to also quickly clarify as both left and right can be bent and manipulated to want bigger govt, so I just describe it as the people that want bigger govt or the people that want smaller govt. Easiest way I can think of, like you said, so we dont overexplain again and again...

    ... and again

    ... and yet again

    ... and again

    ... are we there yet

    ... I have to pee

    ... and again
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    "The Essence of Freedom is the PROPER Limitation of Government."
    I must depart here. The essence of freedom is freedom.

    It was doing well until it came to describing anarchy. Pretty big FAIL there. "Without Law there can be no freedom" is cited of the Greeks, the implication being that only government brings Law. This is nonsense. For an aeon the man of this world lived anarchically and freely and with Law. Natural Law. The Law that is obvious to any man whose thoughts and soul have not been polluted by fouling notions such as "the state", "government", "the people", "collective rights", "king", and so forth; all of which are the products of the single most destructive of all human inventions: Empire.

    "Some about of governMENT is a necessary force in any civilized, orderly society." FAIL^FAIL. GovernANCE is the proper word here, for it makes no assumption about how, exactly, governance is to be carried forth into practice. GovernMENT implies facts not in evidence, and as human history shows with virtual universality, those assumptions always bring misery, poverty, disease, death, and destruction to people. Words are important.

    It then goes on to imply the misery of anarchy where everyone must expend energy guarding life, limb, and property. GovernMENT is once again peddled as the solution for those too lazy to look after their own interests. "Oh, but people should not have to live in fear of their fellows just to keep from being mugged by them...": that is the dreary, clapped-out rejoinder of those corrupts who clamor for governMENT; those who want to pimp off their individual responsibilities to themselves onto the shoulders of others. How often do they consider that nothing has changed, save the particular of the societal order in that now they have to worry about being mugged by governMENT.

    Words are important^2.

    "The proper AMOUNT of governMENT MAKES everyone FREER." FAIL^4. Quality over quantity. The right KIND of goverNANCE KEEPS everyone FREE.

    There are no degrees of freedom, but only of servitude. One is either free, or is something else. One doesn't MAKE another free; we are born that way. One can only RESTORE the freedom that was violated by others.

    Words are important^3

    "Anarchy isn't a stable form of government". Yeah, because it is not a form of governMENT at all.

    Words are important ^4

    "[Anarchy] is a temporary condition". Oy... ALL conditions are temporary. That aside, and if we dial back our thinking to more conventional norms, anarchy stood as the ONLY form of governance for the existences of entire peoples. Doesn't seem so temporary to me. Most of human history, so far as anyone can tell, saw anarchy as the nearly universal means of living among one's fellows. It was not until people began to conglomerate into larger groups that Empire arose and the wholesale destruction of freedom began.

    Beyond this, the video is good.

    The issue is not who discharges the duties of governance, but what those duties are and how they are discharged. GovernMENT is the worst possible instrument of goverNANCE. It is never sufficient because it is by its nature tyrannical, and that because of the subtle nature of the term and the often tacit notions to which it gives rise; false notions that have lead men into servitude in every case to date. This is because governMENT does not exist, in sť. It is a phony balony term used to describe that which has no reality of its own, but the nature of which implies falsehoods as truths and, being nonexistent, allows men with designs upon the freedoms of their fellows to paint whatever picture they may to the edges of the tolerance of those same fellows. This brand of flim-flammery is one of the greatest works of evil genius to ever issue and find endless reuse from and by the befouled souls of rotten men.

    Words matter. If we are serious about ending slavery, we'd better get a handle on words, their use, and all the consequences of it.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.








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