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Thread: The Long Term Decline in Violence in Europe - What Caused It?

  1. #1

    The Long Term Decline in Violence in Europe - What Caused It?



    Discuss



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  3. #2
    Submission culture, like most things you needs some but not too much.

    Too little and you have the law of the jungle too much and you get sheeple.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post


    Discuss
    I guess killing people via war or genocide doesn't count as homicide?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I guess killing people via war or genocide doesn't count as homicide?
    Those figures include war and genocide deaths.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Those figures include war and genocide deaths.
    Really? because the uptick seems to be after 1950.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Really? because the uptick seems to be after 1950.

    And they were really good at keeping track of homicides before 1900...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Really? because the uptick seems to be after 1950.
    Note that the chart is per 100,000.

    The 20th century was by far the most murderous in absolute numbers, but not even close relative population.

  9. #8
    Anyway, as to the cause of the decline:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Submission culture, like most things you needs some but not too much.

    Too little and you have the law of the jungle too much and you get sheeple.
    It's always got to be culture with you...

    But, yes, if by "submission culture," you mean the emergence of strong states from the quasi-anarchy of the earlier period, that's the cause.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 01-24-2018 at 06:53 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Anyway, as to the cause of the decline:



    It's always got to be culture with you...

    But, yes, if by "submission culture," you mean the emergence of strong states from the quasi-anarchy of the earlier period, that's the cause.

    The reason people are laughing is because there doesn't seem to be an uptick for WWI or WWII in the graph, wars caused by these "strong states" you seem to be worshiping.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The reason people are laughing is because there doesn't seem to be an uptick for WWI or WWII in the graph, wars caused by these "strong states" you seem to be worshiping.
    Once again, the chart shows homicides **relative population**.

    And, as you may or may not know, the population of W. Europe exploded in the 19th and 20th centuries.

    The world wars shouldn't be prominent on this chart.

    ...not mention that most of the causalities of those wars occurred outside W. Europe.

  13. #11
    The invention of the Firearm.

    Wars have been less bloody ever since.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  14. #12
    War deaths (relative population) have remained fairly constant, say about 5-10 per 100,000 on average.

    The enormous drop in overall deaths is a result of less petty violence: e.g. medieval feuding, banditry, etc.


  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I guess killing people via war or genocide doesn't count as homicide?
    On second thought, a little back of the napkin math tells me you must be right.

    The rate's too low for it to include war deaths, even if it's a long-term average.

    So, the first chart shows ordinary homicides (dramatically declining), the chart I just posted above shows war deaths (about constant).

    In any event, the overall trend is the same.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    The Long Term Decline in Violence in Europe - What Caused It?
    I think its clear that since the uptick starts almost immediately after the founding of the United Nations
    The UN Charter was drafted at a conference between April–June 1945 in San Francisco, and was signed on 26 June 1945 at the conclusion of the conference;[4][5] this charter took effect 24 October 1945, and the UN began operation. The UN's mission to preserve world peace...
    So obviously the UN is to blame. "preserve world peace" by getting people to kill each other.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I think its clear that since the uptick starts almost immediately after the founding of the United Nations

    So obviously the UN is to blame. "preserve world peace" by getting people to kill each other.
    Europe saw a pretty large uptick in ordinary murders from about 1960-1990 (then it declined again), much like the US.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It's always got to be culture with you...
    Because it usually is.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    But, yes, if by "submission culture," you mean the emergence of strong states from the quasi-anarchy of the earlier period, that's the cause.
    I mean that the church and the nation state did a good job (too good actually) training people to submit to authority, follow the rules and not take the law into their own hands, "Law and Order" is one of the pillars of western culture. (an overgrown pillar)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post


    Discuss
    Long term decline with a disturbing uptick in violent crimes in Europe. That map if true is not good for anyone. Especially considering that violent crime is in decline in many other places.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Long term decline with a disturbing uptick in violent crimes in Europe. That map if true is not good for anyone. Especially considering that violent crime is in decline in many other places.

    Does that graph really have any meaning? Accurate tallies of homicides in the 1300 and 1400’s? Really?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


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    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Europe saw a pretty large uptick in ordinary murders from about 1960-1990 (then it declined again), much like the US.
    In 1960 it was still fairly easy to rob a bank or murder someone and get away with it .

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    In 1960 it was still fairly easy to rob a bank or murder someone and get away with it .
    Family history?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Family history?
    I could smoke cigarettes on a commercial flight with my pockets full of loaded weapons too .....

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I could smoke cigarettes on a commercial flight with my pockets full of loaded weapons too .....
    Every passengers worst nightmare, a loaded Injun onboard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  26. #23
    Stefan Molyneux answers it here at 14:20 - 15:15




    This was last weekend at a Night for Freedom where a man in his mid 50s was attacked by Antifa while on his way back out to his car and ended up in the hospital.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ls-Last-Minute
    Last edited by dannno; 01-25-2018 at 01:55 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    The invention of the Firearm.

    Wars have been less bloody ever since.
    Bingo.

    An armed society is a polite society.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Every passengers worst nightmare, a loaded Injun onboard.
    You want to make America Great don't you ?

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I mean that the church and the nation state did a good job (too good actually) training people to submit to authority, follow the rules and not take the law into their own hands, "Law and Order" is one of the pillars of western culture. (an overgrown pillar)
    Would you agree that it was the emergence of stronger, stabler, more centralized states that enabled this "domestication"?

    If not, what did?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Would you agree that it was the emergence of stronger, stabler, more centralized states that enabled this "domestication"?
    Absolutely.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Would you agree that it was the emergence of stronger, stabler, more centralized states that enabled this "domestication"?

    If not, what did?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Stefan Molyneux answers it here at 14:20 - 15:15




    This was last weekend at a Night for Freedom where a man in his mid 50s was attacked by Antifa while on his way back out to his car and ended up in the hospital.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ls-Last-Minute

    Separation of church and state.


    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Absolutely.
    Well alright...

    An internet debate has ended quickly and in complete agreement; someone check outside for flying pigs.



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