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Thread: Mexico murder rate reaches a stunning 19.8 per 100,000 in 2017

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Bribery is a way of life in Mexico and they have been a Bandido/Tyrant state since the Spanish lost control. (The Spanish were no great shakes themselves)

    And as I said it was caused by many bad decisions by the people and their leaders.
    My point is that it sounds like you're identifying the bad outcome with the bad culture.

    That's not really an explanation, is it? It's like saying that the cause of Americans watching too much TV is that they like to watch too much TV.

    Why is bribery rampant, do you think? How did that come into being?

    ...hint: who do you think is more likely to accept a bribe, the well or the poorly paid official?
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 01-22-2018 at 01:02 AM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    My point is that it sounds like you're identifying the bad outcome with the bad culture.

    That's not really an explanation, is it? It's like saying that the cause of Americans watching too much TV is that they like to watch too much TV.

    Why is bribery rampant, do you think? How did that come into being?

    ...hint: who do you think is more likely to accept a bribe, the well- or poorly-paid official?
    Some things are their own cause like gluttony or greed or almost any other basic vice, but even those that are affected by other factors are the result of the bad decisions that create those other factors like poorly paid officials.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Some things are their own cause like gluttony or greed or almost any other basic vice
    If you're not arguing for an environmental cause, you're arguing for a genetic cause...?

    but even those that are affected by other factors are the result of the bad decisions that create those other factors like poorly paid officials.
    The Mexican state didn't wake up one day and say "You know what, we don't want our agents to actually carry out our policies, we want them to be corrupt, so let's pay them as little as possible so that they have to extort bribes to pay the rent." The Mexican state pays little because it has little to pay, because Mexico is poor. It's the same the world over (it was also the case historically in now wealthy countries); the poorer the country, the closer to subsistence the pay for state employees, the more bribery. As a country develop and the state has more resources, it increases pay (and improves discipline, which oversight also costs); this happened in the now developed world and it'll eventually happen in the third world. It has nothing to do with culture. It's people responding to their environment on the basis of rational self-interest.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Is it something inherent in the people...

    ...or maybe something about the political environment?
    I don't give a $#@! anymore.

    The people are either inured to this, want this, or are part of it.

    I don't want to live in an even more corrupt police state, where bribery, extortion and rotting corpses hung daily from highway overpasses is considered a daily part of life, and then have the same people that brought that here march in the streets and demand that I GTFO and die.

    $#@! them, I don't care why their $#@!hole countries ended up like that or how to fix it or how to sort out "good" from "bad".

    Let them piss off back to wherever they came from: this country is broke and full.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I don't give a $#@! anymore.
    Well, if the problem is environmental, your anti-immigration argument makes no sense.

    But, alright, carry on...
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If you're not arguing for an environmental cause, you're arguing for a genetic cause...?



    The Mexican state didn't wake up one day and say "You know what, we don't want our agents to actually carry out our policies, we want them to be corrupt, so let's pay them as little as possible so that they have to extort bribes to pay the rent." The Mexican state pays little because it has little to pay, because Mexico is poor. It's the same the world over (it was also the case historically in now wealthy countries); the poorer the country, the closer to subsistence the pay for state employees, the more bribery. As a country develop and the state has more resources, it increases pay (and improves discipline, which oversight also costs); this happened in the now developed world and it'll eventually happen in the third world. It has nothing to do with culture. It's people responding to their environment on the basis of rational self-interest.
    I isn't genetic but it is human, we all suffer temptations but we don't all give into them or even when we do it it is not to the same degree, not all poor countries are as crime ridden as Mexico, their problem is the result of centuries of cascading bad choices by uncounted people.

    Even if poverty was the cause that would just mean that we can't let in people from countries that are poorer than a certain threshold, they will just have to build wealth in their own countries until they pass that threshold.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    @r3volution 3.0

    Would you want to let a horde of wild eyed Athenian Democrats move into your ideal kingdom?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, if the problem is environmental, your anti-immigration argument makes no sense.

    But, alright, carry on...
    Do we have the same culture here? No
    Do they bring it with them when they come? Yes
    Will we have that culture here if we let too any in? Yes

    If the problem is poverty then letting in hordes of people poorer than us will make the problem worse.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I isn't genetic but it is human, we all suffer temptations but we don't all give into them or even when we do it it is not to the same degree
    But the question is why there is this difference across countries (or individuals within a country, for that matter).

    There are only two possible explanations: environmental and genetic.

    not all poor countries are as crime ridden as Mexico, their problem is the result of centuries of cascading bad choices by uncounted people.
    There's a very strong correlation between wealth and corruption.

    https://www.transparency.org/news/fe...ons_index_2016

    Even if poverty was the cause that would just mean that we can't let in people from countries that are poorer than a certain threshold, they will just have to build wealth in their own countries until they pass that threshold.
    The corruption is caused by the poverty of the official extorting the bribe, not the schmuck paying it.

    Think about the rise of professional armies and bureaucracies in Europe, 1600-1900. At one time, they were unpaid (either as a matter of mutually understood policy, or by default, for lack of money), the expectation being that they would remunerate themselves at the expense of the population. This changed once states had the resources to pay their agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Do we have the same culture here? No
    Do they bring it with them when they come? Yes
    Will we have that culture here if we let too any in? Yes
    Mexicans certainly have a different culture, but love of bribery isn't part of it; that is environmental.

    There's no reason to expect them to behave that way in our environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    @r3volution 3.0

    Would you want to let a horde of wild eyed Athenian Democrats move into your ideal kingdom?
    Very few people are ideological zealots. Most people are just reacting to their environment. That a person comes from a socialist/democratic/Islamist country doesn't mean they're zealous socialists/democrats/Islamists. They almost certainly aren't. So, to answer your question; there'd be no reason to refuse people simply because they came from a place whose government is an abomination. Refusing actual zealous, some revolutionary cadre ala the bolsheviks that repatriated to Russia during WWI, is another matter, and might well be justified in the interest of security.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 01-22-2018 at 02:00 AM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    But the question is why there is this difference across countries (or individuals within a country, for that matter).

    There are only two possible explanations: environmental and genetic.
    Free will doesn't exist? Because I'm pretty sure it has been involved when I resisted temptation and when I gave into it as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    There's a very strong correlation between wealth and corruption.

    https://www.transparency.org/news/fe...ons_index_2016



    The corruption is caused by the poverty of the official extorting the bribe, not the schmuck paying it.
    And you said that the poverty of the official was caused by the people's poverty and inability to pay him a decent wage.

    In any case the corruption is endemic in the culture and they bring it with them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Free will doesn't exist? Because I'm pretty sure it has been involved when I resisted temptation and when I gave into it as well.
    No comprendo

    How does free will (which presumably both peoples enjoy) explain the difference in their behavior...?

    And you said that the poverty of the official was caused by the people's poverty and inability to pay him a decent wage.
    Again, not following...

    1. Poor Mexican arrives in the US.
    2. ...?
    3. The US government can't afford to pay the police.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Very few people are ideological zealots. Most people are just reacting to their environment. That a person comes from a socialist/democratic/Islamist country doesn't mean they're zealous socialists/democrats/Islamists. They almost certainly aren't. So, to answer your question; there'd be no reason to refuse people simply because they came from a place whose government is an abomination. Refusing actual zealous, some revolutionary cadre ala the bolsheviks that repatriated to Russia during WWI, is another matter, and might well be justified in the interest of security.
    Ask anybody whose state has been "Californicated" or flooded with "half backs" or "Massholes" if that statement is true or not.

    Or better yet, ask these guys how allowing millions and millions of immigrants that were hostile to them, their way of life, customs and traditions to just waltz on in...ask them how it worked out for them:


  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, if the problem is environmental, your anti-immigration argument makes no sense.

    But, alright, carry on...
    Why not?

    If it is your "culture" to $#@! in the streets, and abstain from using sanitary plumbing, if you bring tens of millions of people here who believe that, then you will have cholera and typhoid and hepatitis pandemics.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    No comprendo

    How does free will (which presumably both peoples enjoy) explain the difference in their behavior...?
    Each individual uses his free will to reject or succumb to temptation, randomly some groups contain more people who succumb to more temptations than other groups, the groups with a worse rate develop a worse culture.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Again, not following...

    1. Poor Mexican arrives in the US.
    2. ...?
    3. The US government can't afford to pay the police.
    1. Poor Mexicans arrive in the US.
    2. They increase the need for police through their numbers and their greater crime rate.
    3. The US government can't afford to pay the police enough to keep them from going corrupt.
    4. The government hires corrupt Mexicans to be the police because they will work cheap because they expect to get bribes.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Each individual uses his free will to reject or succumb to temptation, randomly some groups contain more people who succumb to more temptations than other groups, the groups with a worse rate develop a worse culture.
    Somehow I found that explanation less than compelling...

    1. Poor Mexicans arrive in the US.
    2. They increase the need for police through their numbers and their greater crime rate.
    3. The US government can't afford to pay the police enough to keep them from going corrupt.
    4. The government hires corrupt Mexicans to be the police because they will work cheap because they expect to get bribes.
    Among the many problems with that scenario, do you have any evidence that Mexican immigrants cost more in policing than they pay in taxes?
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Somehow I found that explanation less than compelling...
    At some point in history all cultures started on a level playing field, how do you think they became different if it wasn't the choices of the people who were in them?



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Among the many problems with that scenario, do you have any evidence that Mexican immigrants cost more in policing than they pay in taxes?
    The crime rates in sanctuary cities.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    At some point in history all cultures started on a level playing field, how do you think they became different if it wasn't the choices of the people who were in them?
    The point is that choices aren't made in a vacuum.

    Behavior isn't random.

    It's a product of environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0
    do you have any evidence that Mexican immigrants cost more in policing than they pay in taxes?
    The crime rates in sanctuary cities.
    So that's a no...
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The point is that choices aren't made in a vacuum.

    Behavior isn't random.

    It's a product of environment.
    There is some environmental influence and some choice which is deliberate on the part of the individual and random as far as everyone else is concerned.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    I hope that no one here is judging all Mexicans by the few who who break the law by crossing the border illegally, or the ones involved with drug cartels. That would be similar to judging all Americans by a criminal street gang.

    I've lived in Mexico for more than seven years, and one of the things I like the most about living in Mexico is the people. In my experience they are very down to earth, respectful, decent people… and very family oriented. But of course people are individuals, and like with any country, you have all types, including good and bad. I'm just sharing my own experience living South of the border. One thing I've noticed is that when you drive in Mexico, at least where I live, people are super courteous and will always let you go first… so different than how it is in the US (in my experience) where people get really nasty on the roads, ha ha.

    Also, I think I've shared this before, but in all my years living in Mexico, I've been pulled over twice (both times for doing something I shouldn't have done) And both times the cops were super nice and let me go with no ticket. I can't imagine that happening in the US, the way cops are these days.
    ďI have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.Ē

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I hope that no one here is judging all Mexicans by the few who who break the law by crossing the border illegally, or the ones involved with drug cartels. That would be similar to judging all Americans by a criminal street gang.

    I've lived in Mexico for more than seven years, and one of the things I like the most about living in Mexico is the people. In my experience they are very down to earth, respectful, decent peopleÖ and very family oriented. But of course people are individuals, and like with any country, you have all types, including good and bad. I'm just sharing my own experience living South of the border. One thing I've noticed is that when you drive in Mexico, at least where I live, people are super courteous and will always let you go firstÖ so different than how it is in the US (in my experience) where people get really nasty on the roads, ha ha.

    Also, I think I've shared this before, but in all my years living in Mexico, I've been pulled over twice (both times for doing something I shouldn't have done) And both times the cops were super nice and let me go with no ticket. I can't imagine that happening in the US, the way cops are these days.
    I would never judge every individual Mexican based on anything, but their culture overall is riddled with corruption in spite of those facets where they may surpass ours, immigration is a question of groups and as a group we can't afford to let in too many people from their group.(or almost any other group in the world)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There is some environmental influence and some choice which is deliberate on the part of the individual and random as far as everyone else is concerned.
    Well, that's progress, but I'll just say again:

    Free will by definition doesn't determine behavior; it can't be a cause of behavior. The fact that I'm free to choose Coke or Pepsi cannot explain why I choose Coke. As for randomness, that's not an explanation but the absence of one. If I say the outcome of the coin flip is random, that doesn't mean it lacks a cause, that means I have no idea what the cause is. The only explanations for human behavior are environmental or genetic (and I know you don't buy the genetic explanation, as I don't).

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I hope that no one here is judging all Mexicans by the few who who break the law by crossing the border illegally, or the ones involved with drug cartels. That would be similar to judging all Americans by a criminal street gang.

    I've lived in Mexico for more than seven years, and one of the things I like the most about living in Mexico is the people. In my experience they are very down to earth, respectful, decent people… and very family oriented. But of course people are individuals, and like with any country, you have all types, including good and bad. I'm just sharing my own experience living South of the border. One thing I've noticed is that when you drive in Mexico, at least where I live, people are super courteous and will always let you go first… so different than how it is in the US (in my experience) where people get really nasty on the roads, ha ha.

    Also, I think I've shared this before, but in all my years living in Mexico, I've been pulled over twice (both times for doing something I shouldn't have done) And both times the cops were super nice and let me go with no ticket. I can't imagine that happening in the US, the way cops are these days.
    It's funny, Mexicans (and Hispanics in general) would be a natural GOP constituency if the GOP weren't so hostile to them.

    The GOP's social agenda fits nicely with their culture (their real culture, which isn't about bribe-taking and decapitating people...).
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, that's progress, but I'll just say again:

    Free will by definition doesn't determine behavior; it can't be a cause of behavior. The fact that I'm free to choose Coke or Pepsi cannot explain why I choose Coke. As for randomness, that's not an explanation but the absence of one. If I say the outcome of the coin flip is random, that doesn't mean it lacks a cause, that means I have no idea what the cause is. The only explanations for human behavior are environmental or genetic (and I know you don't buy the genetic explanation, as I don't).
    What you are describing isn't free will, it is man the machine, maybe a complex machine that is harder to understand than a computer but a machine none the less.
    It is a false view of the world, when I make a choice it is not the inevitable outcome of various inputs processed through my "hardware" and "software", they play a part but they are just the beginning of the process, they present me with a set of feelings and ideas and then I CHOOSE between the options that are apparent to me, some times I follow the influence of my "hardware" and "software" and sometimes I deliberately go against them or when they are inconclusive I make an arbitrary decision.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It's funny, Mexicans (and Hispanics in general) would be a natural GOP constituency if the GOP weren't so hostile to them.

    The GOP's social agenda fits nicely with their culture (their real culture, which isn't about bribe-taking and decapitating people...).
    The Socialism kind of gets in the way, or rather it drags them like a magnet into the arms of the Demoncrats no matter how much they offend against the Hispanics social beliefs.

    And the crime and corruption are a greater part of their culture than ours.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I would never judge every individual Mexican based on anything, but their culture overall is riddled with corruption in spite of those facets where they may surpass ours, immigration is a question of groups and as a group we can't afford to let in too many people from their group.(or almost any other group in the world)
    Unless I'm reading this wrong… It appears that the total crime rate overall per capita is actually higher in the US than in Mexico: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...d-States/Crime

    The homicide rate is higher in Mexico. But I'm pretty sure most of it occurs in Juarez, due to the drug cartels.

    There is corruption all over the world. In fact, Mexico doesn't even make the top 10 list.

    I'm not sure how accurate this is, but according to this list they are #91: https://www.ranker.com/list/the-most...rld/info-lists
    ďI have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.Ē

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Unless I'm reading this wrong… It appears that the total crime rate overall per capita is actually higher in the US than in Mexico: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...d-States/Crime

    The homicide rate is higher in Mexico. But I'm pretty sure most of it occurs in Juarez, due to the drug cartels.
    I don't buy those statistics, there is a lot more crime in Mexico that doesn't get reported, and America's crime rates would be a lot lower if we hadn't flooded our big cities with 3rd world immigrants for decades.



    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    There is corruption all over the world. In fact, Mexico doesn't even make the top 10 list.

    I'm not sure how accurate this is, but according to this list they are #91: https://www.ranker.com/list/the-most...rld/info-lists
    And the US is #161, we don't need to get dragged down to their level.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't buy those statistics, there is a lot more crime in Mexico that doesn't get reported, and America's crime rates would be a lot lower if we hadn't flooded our big cities with 3rd world immigrants for decades.
    I've heard the same stats from other sources too.

    And the US is #161, we don't need to get dragged down to their level.
    I am totally against illegal immigration, so we are in agreement there. I was just saying that there are lots of countries that are more corrupt than Mexico that no one is talking about... And also to imply that Mexicans in general are the same as the ones who cross the border illegally or come to the US with bad intentions, is simply incorrect. As r3v alluded to, many Hispanic immigrants are very conservative, actually. And love the principles that our country stands for. Of course I'm not talking about the illegals.
    Last edited by lilymc; 01-22-2018 at 04:52 AM.
    ďI have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.Ē

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What you are describing isn't free will, it is man the machine, maybe a complex machine that is harder to understand than a computer but a machine none the less.

    It is a false view of the world, when I make a choice it is not the inevitable outcome of various inputs processed through my "hardware" and "software", they play a part but they are just the beginning of the process, they present me with a set of feelings and ideas and then I CHOOSE between the options that are apparent to me, some times I follow the influence of my "hardware" and "software" and sometimes I deliberately go against them or when they are inconclusive I make an arbitrary decision.
    Country A and Country B are identical, except in Country A widgets cost $50, while in Country B they cost $100.

    It is observed that demand for widgets in Country A is higher.

    What is the better explanation for this phenomenon:

    (1) The price of widgets is inversely related to demand.

    (2) The residents of both countries have free will, and the difference is random.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't buy those statistics, there is a lot more crime in Mexico that doesn't get reported, and America's crime rates would be a lot lower if we hadn't flooded our big cities with 3rd world immigrants for decades.





    And the US is #161, we don't need to get dragged down to their level.
    No.

    America's crime rates would be a lot lower if we got rid ot the WoD & the Wot- unfortunately this is a huge profit machine for the alphabets & MIC.

    Most US crime isn't immigrant based- it's "victimless crime" based- meaning years in jail for smoking a joint.
    There is no spoon.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I hope that no one here is judging all Mexicans by the few who who break the law by crossing the border illegally, or the ones involved with drug cartels. That would be similar to judging all Americans by a criminal street gang.

    I've lived in Mexico for more than seven years, and one of the things I like the most about living in Mexico is the people. In my experience they are very down to earth, respectful, decent people… and very family oriented. But of course people are individuals, and like with any country, you have all types, including good and bad. I'm just sharing my own experience living South of the border. One thing I've noticed is that when you drive in Mexico, at least where I live, people are super courteous and will always let you go first… so different than how it is in the US (in my experience) where people get really nasty on the roads, ha ha.

    Also, I think I've shared this before, but in all my years living in Mexico, I've been pulled over twice (both times for doing something I shouldn't have done) And both times the cops were super nice and let me go with no ticket. I can't imagine that happening in the US, the way cops are these days.
    Been to Mexico a lot and they are wonderful people.

    Have US friends that will only go to dentists & doctors in Mexico because the care is excellent & the low prices are unbelievable.
    There is no spoon.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Country A and Country B are identical, except in Country A widgets cost $50, while in Country B they cost $100.

    It is observed that demand for widgets in Country A is higher.

    What is the better explanation for this phenomenon:

    (1) The price of widgets is inversely related to demand.

    (2) The residents of both countries have free will, and the difference is random.
    Both, the people of country A have CHOSEN to desire more widgets and therefore to pay more for them, from an outsider's perspective that choice was random.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 01-22-2018 at 01:27 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    No.

    America's crime rates would be a lot lower if we got rid ot the WoD & the Wot- unfortunately this is a huge profit machine for the alphabets & MIC.

    Most US crime isn't immigrant based- it's "victimless crime" based- meaning years in jail for smoking a joint.
    That is another large factor on which I agree with you, but the 3rd world flood also contributes to our crime rates.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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