Chosen, From The Beginning Of Time

[Sola_Fide]

OK, fine...but I could just as easily go worship a tree instead, because if I'm not chosen, there is nothing I can do about it.

Not acts, deeds, repentance, baptism or asking for and receiving salvation, grace and eternal life by accepting Christ.

None of that will do any good.

If I'm damned by God, not a chosen one in other words, then nothing I can do will change that.

OK, but why the focus on that? If you repent and believe the gospel, then it's not because you were smarter or more spiritual than someone else. We are all in the same lowly estate when we are born... Slaves to sin. If you turn to Him, it was because God loved you and saw to it that you would turn to Him.

So there's no need to focus on the hidden councils of God. It's for Him to know and it's for His purposes.

[Jamesiv1]

This thread would be a lot better if it had a couple of polls.

[donnay]

Right. This is the Kenite heresy. This heresy is ridiculous because Romans chapter 4 clearly says that one is a child of Abraham by FAITH, not lineage.

It's hilarious, because the Black Hebrew Israelite cult uses the same arguments that you do, except they think you are the white devil seed and they are the true Jews.

The truth is, both of you are wrong because a person is a child of Abraham by faith, not lineage, no matter what race they are. This is the glory of the gospel, that Jesus purchased with His blood men from every tribe, tongue, and nation.

You are so baffled with your own BS you have taken this conversation away from Adam's genealogy and avoided answering a simple question about it. Why is that? Because you cannot deny that there are two separate genealogy's.

God made a covenant with Abraham to be the father of many nations, I have already pointed that out. The twelve tribes were scattered and went over the Caucasus Mountains and settle in parts of Europe, Canada and America which consist of the House of Israel. Yet again, you clearly ignored.

Just a quick note: God is the Judge and it is a sin to judge people as you so aptly do.

James 4:11 - 4:12 (KJV)

11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

[donnay]

OK, fine...but I could just as easily go worship a tree instead, because if I'm not chosen, there is nothing I can do about it.

Not acts, deeds, repentance, baptism or asking for and receiving salvation, grace and eternal life by accepting Christ.

None of that will do any good.

If I'm damned by God, not a chosen one in other words, then nothing I can do will change that.

God is not a respecter of persons.

Acts 10:34 (KJV)

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 (KJV)

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.



1 John 1:9 - (KJV)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


John 3:16 (KJV) -

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[AZJoe]

[georgiaboy]

God is not a respecter of persons.

Acts 10:34 (KJV)

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 (KJV)

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.



1 John 1:9 - (KJV)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


John 3:16 (KJV) -

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And likewise

2 Peter 3:9 (NIV) -

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

[donnay]

And likewise

2 Peter 3:9 (NIV) -

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Indeed.

[Anti Federalist]

John 3:16 (KJV) -

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Well, exactly...one of the few things that are very clear in the bible, and what Christianity is based on: the understanding that eternal life and salvation is available to anybody who repents of their sins, asks forgiveness of those sins and accepts Jesus Christ as the one and only living son of God on earth and savior of all mankind.

According to Sola, this verse does not mean what it says, especially the "whosoever" bit.

[Anti Federalist]

OK, but why the focus on that? If you repent and believe the gospel, then it's not because you were smarter or more spiritual than someone else. We are all in the same lowly estate when we are born... Slaves to sin. If you turn to Him, it was because God loved you and saw to it that you would turn to Him.

So there's no need to focus on the hidden councils of God. It's for Him to know and it's for His purposes.

So there is no such thing as free will?

If I decided to run amok in the next hour, go rob the convenience store, shoot the clerk, rape some women and rob banks in the morning, God saw that, knew it was coming and it serves his plan in some way?

He made me do that?

[heavenlyboy34]

So there is no such thing as free will?

If I decided to run amok in the next hour, go rob the convenience store, shoot the clerk, rape some women and rob banks in the morning, God saw that, knew it was coming and it serves his plan in some way?

He made me do that?

Know what's interesting? Nowadays people like Sola find themselves on the side of atheists and secularists who "do" scientism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7008181.html

Free will could all be an illusion, scientists suggest after study shows choice may just be brain tricking itself

Research adds to evidence suggesting 'even our most seemingly ironclad beliefs about our own agency and conscious experience can be dead wrong'


Free will might be an illusion created by our brains, scientists might have proved.

Humans are convinced that they make conscious choices as they live their lives. But instead it may be that the brain just convinces itself that it made a free choice from the available options after the decision is made.

The idea was tested out by tricking subjects into believing that they had made a choice before the consequences of that choice could actually be seen. In the test, people were made to believe that they had taken a decision using free will – even though that was impossible.

The idea that human beings trick themselves into believing in free will was laid out in a paper by psychologists Dan Wegner and Thalia Wheatley nearly 20 years ago. They proposed the feeling of wanting to do something was real, but there may be no connection between the feeling and actually doing it.

The new study builds on that work and says that the brain rewrites history when it makes its choices, changing our memories so that we believe we wanted to do something before it happened.



In one of the studies undertaken by Adam Bear and Paul Bloom, of Yale University, the test subjects were shown five white circles on a computer monitor. They were told to choose one of the circles before one of them lit up red.
The participants were then asked to describe whether they’d picked the correct circle, another one, or if they hadn’t had time to actually pick one.

Statistically, people should have picked the right circle about one out of every five times. But they reported getting it right much more than 20 per cent of the time, going over 30 per cent if the circle turned red very quickly.

The scientists suggest that the findings show that the test subjects’ minds were swapping around the order of events, so that it appeared that they had chosen the right circle – even if they hadn’t actually had time to do so.

The idea of free will may have arisen because it is a useful thing to have, giving people a feeling of control over their lives and allowing for people to be punished for wrongdoing.
But that same feeling can go awry, the scientists wrote in the Scientific American magazine. It may be important for people to feel they are control of their lives, for instance, but distortions in that same process might make people feel that they have control over external processes like the weather.

The scientists cautioned that the illusion of choice might only apply to choices that are made quickly and without too much thought. But it might also be “pervasive and ubiquitous — governing all aspects of our behaviour, from our most minute to our most important decisions”.

“Whatever the case may be,” they write, “our studies add to a growing body of work suggesting that even our most seemingly ironclad beliefs about our own agency and conscious experience can be dead wrong.”
The work is published in the journal Psychological Science.

[pcosmar]

So there is no such thing as free will?

If I decided to run amok in the next hour, go rob the convenience store, shoot the clerk, rape some women and rob banks in the morning, God saw that, knew it was coming and it serves his plan in some way?

He made me do that?

Having been there and done that,,,

I was not following God,I was rejecting Him,, and I was making very bad choices. It was a habit,

The accepting the free Gift He offered was the only good choice I made.

[Sola_Fide]

So there is no such thing as free will?

If I decided to run amok in the next hour, go rob the convenience store, shoot the clerk, rape some women and rob banks in the morning, God saw that, knew it was coming and it serves his plan in some way?

He made me do that?

God knew it, predestined it, and purposed it for His own glory.

God works out all things after the council of His will. This is Ephesians 2.

God decided from eternity that He would glorify Himself by saving an evil undeserving people, and also judging the wickedness of evil men.

This is Romans 9. It's all there in the Bible if you care to read it.

[donnay]

Scripture lawyer

[Sola_Fide]

Scripture lawyer

Ma'am, I've never understood that attack on me. You don't understand the Scriptures enough to even be a student of it. Your mind is wrapped up in a cult that teaches the serpent seed heresy and white supremacism. I feel for anyone that is so deluded.

[Anti Federalist]

God knew it, predestined it, and purposed it for His own glory.

God works out all things after the council of His will. This is Ephesians 2.

God decided from eternity that He would glorify Himself by saving an evil undeserving people, and also judging the wickedness of evil men.

This is Romans 9. It's all there in the Bible if you care to read it.

OK, just wanted to make certain I knew where you stood on this.

And it is just because of things like this, how intelligent people can read the same book and come away with meanings 180 degrees out from one another, on the single most important item in the book, leads me to believe that this is all nothing but humbuggery.

Seems to me the Supreme Being could have written a more clear instruction manual.

This constant haranguing brings strife here, in my home, in my marriage, all of this is nothing more than irritation, noise and static and far from peace.

I bid you all adieu.

[TER]

OK, just wanted to make certain I knew where you stood on this.

And it is just because of things like this, how intelligent people can read the same book and come away with meanings 180 degrees out from one another, on the single most important item in the book, leads me to believe that this is all nothing but humbuggery.

Seems to me the Supreme Being could have written a more clear instruction manual.

This constant haranguing brings strife here, in my home, in my marriage, all of this is nothing more than irritation, noise and static and far from peace.

I bid you all adieu.

And that, my friend, is exactly why Christ established a Church, and not a book, to the be pillar and foundation of the truth. It is only with consensus amongst holy, devout and faithful people, seeking unity in mind and spirit with God and one another, wherethrough the Holy Spirit works and the truth is reliably revealed. ‘For where there is two or three, I am amongst them’.

The greatest heretics have come from those who use their interpretation of the Scriptures to be correct against the age old witness of the Church, putting their individual and minority view against the consistent voice of the Saints which have piously and devoutly handed down the teachings of the fathers before them.

When St. Paul converted and before he went out to be the great Apostle to the Gentiles, he went first to the leaders of the Church in Jerusalem to make sure he had the right handle on the beliefs and wasn’t just interjecting his own opinions and made up theories.

This is the Christian way.

When the first council in Jerusalem occurred, it was the leaders (the hierarchy) coming together in prayerful deliberation whereby the Holy Spirit acted and the truth and the will of God was revealed. This has always been the mechanism established by God whereby differences in theological opinion was sorted out within the believers so that the truth may be manifest.

This is the Christian way.

What is definitely not the Christian way is ‘me and my bible’. That is an innovation of the past few generations and has never been a principle to the faith or taught by any Christian Saint. It is a complete misunderstanding of how we, as Christians, find assurance of truth within this difficult world. Many archheretics have used the Scriptures apart from the mind of the Church to start their own ‘churches’ and led others astray.


Do not lose hope! Do not be discouraged! There have always been those who have twisted the Scruptures and the teachings of Christ (even since the beginning) to fit their own philosophies or for other selfish and prideful reasons. But God has not abandoned us to the wolves! No, He has established His Body upon the earth of likeminded baptized believers to be the light of the world and the salt of the world to both carry down and defend the Apostolic teachings and traditions as well as preserve the truths which God through the Holy Spirit has revealed.

Do not allow the waves of heresies which surround us in the deep to overtake us or cause us to become despondent, for there are dangers everywhere when we are alone and drift farther into the unknown, but rather, come to the safe harbor of the Church which God established for our shelter, and the teachings of the beloved Saints which He has graced for our benefit, and who have made the journey before us and have helped in keeping the ship safe within the harbor of orthodoxy and truth.

If joining the Orthodox Church therefore seems too much of a jump and leap of faith at this time, then at least prayerfully read and consult the Fathers of the Church who are the reliable witnesses through time of the Holy Spirit amongst the faithful in Christ. In their writings you will hear the voice of God much more reliably than what us greater sinners may be hearing within our own fallible and fallen minds. Ignore the cacophony of men’s opinions which lack consistent witness and tradition as the teachings and Christians practices carried through time and space do. For what seems new and shiny is often the first to break down and rust when exposed to the elements. Seek the Pearl of Great Price which does not wither away and turn to dust.

[Sola_Fide]

TER said:

It is only with consensus amongst devout and faithful people, seeking unity in mind and spirit with God and one another, wherethrough the Holy Spirit works and the truth is reliably revealed.

No TER, truth is not based on consensus of any group of people, it is based on the revealed propositions of God.

[Sola_Fide]

OK, just wanted to make certain I knew where you stood on this.

And it is just because of things like this, how intelligent people can read the same book and come away with meanings 180 degrees out from one another, on the single most important item in the book, leads me to believe that this is all nothing but humbuggery.

Seems to me the Supreme Being could have written a more clear instruction manual.

This constant haranguing brings strife here, in my home, in my marriage, all of this is nothing more than irritation, noise and static and far from peace.

I bid you all adieu.

Well, the alternative to who God really is, is a god who creates purpose-less evil. Why would you worship a God that created a world where evil has no redemptive purpose? I wouldn't do it. Can you imagine a world where there is no purpose for the evil that occurs? What a bleak worldview that would be.

But the Bible presents the view that even evil serves Him. He is sovereign over the evil of men, and no evil occurs that doesn't serve His glorious plan of redemption.

The greatest evil in the world, the crucifixion of the sinless Son of God, was predestined and purposed by God. This is in the book of Acts, if you care to read it.

[donnay]

Ma'am, I've never understood that attack on me. You don't understand the Scriptures enough to even be a student of it. Your mind is wrapped up in a cult that teaches the serpent seed heresy and white supremacism. I feel for anyone that is so deluded.

In the latter days there are floods, and those are floods of lies--because Satan knows he has but a short time. Many will be deceived, unfortunately, because of the lies, but remember this; Judgment begins with those who teach the lies.

1 Peter 4:17
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 John 4:1 - KJV
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Proverbs 6:16 - 6:19
16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

2 Timothy 3:13 - KJV
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Ephesians 6:11 - KJV
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Titus 1:15 - 1:16 KJV
15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Corinthians 11:13 - 11:14 KJV
13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - 6:11 KJV
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Timothy 4:1 - KJV
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

James 1:22 - KJV
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 - KJV
For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Zechariah 8:17 - KJV
And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these [are things] that I hate, saith the LORD.

[Sola_Fide]

In the latter days there are floods, and those are floods of lies--because Satan knows he has but a short time. Many will be deceived, unfortunately, because of the lies, but remember this; Judgment begins with those who teach the lies.

1 Peter 4:17
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 John 4:1 - KJV
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Proverbs 6:16 - 6:19
16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

2 Timothy 3:13 - KJV
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Ephesians 6:11 - KJV
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Titus 1:15 - 1:16 KJV
15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Corinthians 11:13 - 11:14 KJV
13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - 6:11 KJV
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Timothy 4:1 - KJV
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

James 1:22 - KJV
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 - KJV
For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Zechariah 8:17 - KJV
And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these [are things] that I hate, saith the LORD.

None of those verses are about white supremacy or serpent people. But this is what cults do to people's minds. They conjure up grand umbilical schemes and then try to fit verses in to that grand scheme. They don't begin with the Bible and let it speak. None of the Biblical writers or the recipients of the letters in the Bible ever believed in white supremacy or serpent people. It's just nuts... And you have taken the bait.

[donnay]

None of those verses are about white supremacy or serpent people. But this is what cults do to people's minds. They conjure up grand umbilical schemes and then try to fit verses in to that grand scheme. They don't begin with the Bible and let it speak. None of the Biblical writers or the recipients of the letters in the Bible ever believed in white supremacy or serpent people. It's just nuts... And you have taken the bait.

SMH. White supremacy? Are you kidding me? Serpent people? Where'd that come from. Explain so we can discuss or I'll know you are just simply here to deceive people and nothing more.

[Sola_Fide]

SMH. White supremacy? Are you kidding me? Serpent people? Where'd that come from. Explain so we can discuss or I'll know you are just simply here to deceive people and nothing more.

Don't you believe that the serpent had physical sex with Eve? Don't you believe white Europeans are the twelve tribes of Israel?

[pcosmar]

Don't you believe that the serpent had physical sex with Eve? Don't you believe white Europeans are the twelve tribes of Israel?

Yet more from an accusing spirit.

it should start becoming obvious

[donnay]

Don't you believe that the serpent had physical sex with Eve?

The serpent is just another name for Satan. You will find Satan has many names throughout the Bible.

One example:

Rev 12:9 KJV
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[Sola_Fide]

How can an immaterial, spiritual being have physical sex with a human and produce offspring? Does Satan have semen?

Have you ever thought about how ridiculous your cult is?

[donnay]

How can an immaterial, spiritual being have physical sex with a human and produce offspring? Does Satan have semen?

Have you ever thought about how ridiculous your cult is?

Do you believe there were giants on the earth as it states in Genesis 6? The Nephilim?

[Sola_Fide]

Do you believe there were giants on the earth as it states in Genesis 6? The Nephilim?

Would you answer the question?

Does Satan have semen? Yes or no?

[donnay]

Would you answer the question?

Does Satan have semen? Yes or no?

Did God say we will make Adam in His and the Angel's image? (Genesis 1)

ETA:

Did the people following Moses out of Egypt not eat Manna from Heaven? Manna is Angels food. (Exodus 16)

[pcosmar]

Do you believe there were giants on the earth as it states in Genesis 6? The Nephilim?

He hasn't read that part of the bible.

The unholy half breeds are unfathomable to him.. Or he wishes to keep their existence quiet. (most likely)

[donnay]

He hasn't read that part of the bible.

The unholy half breeds are unfathomable to him.. Or he wishes to keep their existence quiet. (most likely)

It is becoming increasingly obvious to me now.