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Thread: Why is liberal California the poverty capital of America?

  1. #1

    Exclamation Why is liberal California the poverty capital of America?

    Why is liberal California the poverty capital of America?

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...114-story.html

    Guess which state has the highest poverty rate in the country? Not Mississippi, New Mexico, or West Virginia, but California, where nearly one out of five residents is poor. That’s according to the Census Bureau’s Supplemental Poverty Measure, which factors in the cost of housing, food, utilities and clothing, and which includes noncash government assistance as a form of income.

    Given robust job growth and the prosperity generated by several industries, it’s worth asking why California has fallen behind, especially when the state’s per-capita GDP increased approximately twice as much as the U.S. average over the five years ending in 2016 (12.5%, compared with 6.27%).

    It’s not as though California policymakers have neglected to wage war on poverty. Sacramento and local governments have spent massive amounts in the cause. Several state and municipal benefit programs overlap with one another; in some cases, individuals with incomes 200% above the poverty line receive benefits. California state and local governments spent nearly $958 billion from 1992 through 2015 on public welfare programs, including cash-assistance payments, vendor payments and “other public welfare,” according to the Census Bureau. California, with 12% of the American population, is home today to about one in three of the nation’s welfare recipients.

    California Democrats have long been free to indulge blue-state ideology while paying little or no political price.

    The generous spending, then, has not only failed to decrease poverty; it actually seems to have made it worse.

    In the late 1980s and early 1990s, some states — principally Wisconsin, Michigan, and Virginia — initiated welfare reform, as did the federal government under President Clinton and a Republican Congress. Tied together by a common thread of strong work requirements, these overhauls were a big success: Welfare rolls plummeted and millions of former aid recipients entered the labor force.

    The state and local bureaucracies that implement California’s antipoverty programs, however, resisted pro-work reforms. In fact, California recipients of state aid receive a disproportionately large share of it in no-strings-attached cash disbursements. It’s as though welfare reform passed California by, leaving a dependency trap in place. Immigrants are falling into it: 55% of immigrant families in the state get some kind of means-tested benefits, compared with just 30% of natives.

    Self-interest in the social-services community may be at fault. As economist William A. Niskanen explained back in 1971, public agencies seek to maximize their budgets, through which they acquire increased power, status, comfort and security. To keep growing its budget, and hence its power, a welfare bureaucracy has an incentive to expand its “customer” base. With 883,000 full-time-equivalent state and local employees in 2014, California has an enormous bureaucracy. Many work in social services, and many would lose their jobs if the typical welfare client were to move off the welfare rolls.

    Further contributing to the poverty problem is California’s housing crisis. More than four in 10 households spent more than 30% of their income on housing in 2015. A shortage of available units has driven prices ever higher, far above income increases. And that shortage is a direct outgrowth of misguided policies.

    “Counties and local governments have imposed restrictive land-use regulations that drove up the price of land and dwellings,” explains analyst Wendell Cox. “Middle-income households have been forced to accept lower standards of living while the less fortunate have been driven into poverty by the high cost of housing.” The California Environmental Quality Act, passed in 1971, is one example; it can add $1 million to the cost of completing a housing development, says Todd Williams, an Oakland attorney who chairs the Wendel Rosen Black & Dean land-use group. CEQA costs have been known to shut down entire homebuilding projects. CEQA reform would help increase housing supply, but there’s no real movement to change the law.

    Extensive environmental regulations aimed at reducing carbon dioxide emissions make energy more expensive, also hurting the poor. By some estimates, California energy costs are as much as 50% higher than the national average. Jonathan A. Lesser of Continental Economics, author of a 2015 Manhattan Institute study, “Less Carbon, Higher Prices,” found that “in 2012, nearly 1 million California households faced … energy expenditures exceeding 10% of household income. In certain California counties, the rate of energy poverty was as high as 15% of all households.” A Pacific Research Institute study by Wayne Winegarden found that the rate could exceed 17% of median income in some areas.

    Looking to help poor and low-income residents, California lawmakers recently passed a measure raising the minimum wage from $10 an hour to $15 an hour by 2022 — but a higher minimum wage will do nothing for the 60% of Californians who live in poverty and don’t have jobs. And research indicates that it could cause many who do have jobs to lose them. A Harvard University study found evidence that “higher minimum wages increase overall exit rates for restaurants” in the Bay Area, where more than a dozen cities and counties, including San Francisco, have changed their minimum-wage ordinances in the last five years. “Estimates suggest that a one-dollar increase in the minimum wage leads to a 14% increase in the likelihood of exit for a 3.5-star restaurant (which is the median rating),” the report says. These restaurants are a significant source of employment for low-skilled and entry-level workers.

    Apparently content with futile poverty policies, Sacramento lawmakers can turn their attention to what historian Victor Davis Hanson aptly describes as a fixation on “remaking the world.” The political class wants to build a costly and needless high-speed rail system; talks of secession from a United States presided over by Donald Trump; hired former attorney general Eric H. Holder Jr. to “resist” Trump’s agenda; enacted the first state-level cap-and-trade regime; established California as a “sanctuary state” for illegal immigrants; banned plastic bags, threatening the jobs of thousands of workers involved in their manufacture; and is consumed by its dedication to “California values.” All this only reinforces the rest of America’s perception of an out-of-touch Left Coast, to the disservice of millions of Californians whose values are more traditional, including many of the state’s poor residents.

    With a permanent majority in the state Senate and the Assembly, a prolonged dominance in the executive branch and a weak opposition, California Democrats have long been free to indulge blue-state ideology while paying little or no political price. The state’s poverty problem is unlikely to improve while policymakers remain unwilling to unleash the engines of economic prosperity that drove California to its golden years.

    Kerry Jackson is the Pacific Research Institute’s fellow in California studies. This essay was adapted from the winter issue of City Journal.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    which factors in the cost of housing, food, utilities and clothing,
    In one word, there is the most important factor. Housing. The law of supply and demand can not be erased by edict, legislation, government spending or wishful thinking. And the demand side of the equation is made much worse by immigration and the lure of leftist handouts.

    Simple analogy: bleeding heart leftists in California complain about having a headache, and no matter how much harder and how much more often they hit themselves in the head with a hammer, the headache won't go away.
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  5. #4
    I have posted about this a number of times for a long time. I am glad to see this is being covered in the news. California is a failed mess. This should be brought constantly. I think I hit all the points that author did. She must be reading my highly astute Ron Paul Forums posts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    When you adjust for cost of living, 23.8% of people in California live in poverty. To put that in perspective states that are typically considered poor have much lower poverty rate. Kentucky 13.6%, Alabama 13.5 Mississippi- 16.1% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_poverty_rate

    California's "compassion" for the poor with their highest in the country top tax rate and "concern" for the Mother Earth has resulted in the highest poverty rate in the nation. California is what you get when you have smug people who make policy in the name of the public good but really act in their own crony interests. They say they are protecting the environment by restricting housing development but are really just keeping supply low to drive home prices up.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 01-14-2018 at 07:46 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    In one word, there is the most important factor. Housing. The law of supply and demand can not be erased by edict, legislation, government spending or wishful thinking. And the demand side of the equation is made much worse by immigration and the lure of leftist handouts.
    The market can take care of housing demands just fine. The problem here isn't that they're trying to erase supply and demand by edict. The trouble is that they're making it increasingly difficult, by edict, to fulfill the demands, so the supply is much lower than market forces would dictate.

    We have a similar situation around DC: in DC there is a fatwa regarding building height that has been in place for more than a century, so very little of this area is properly urbanized. As a result all the jobs are in town and all the people who work them live well outside the city.

    LA has a bigger issue in that on top of ridiculous hurdles to building anything, they also have natural disasters to contend with. I think if both DC and LA both eliminated all building codes tomorrow, LA would soon take the trophy as the most expensive place to live, and would remain the most congested. It would likely be much, much better, but we have to remember that it sure seems like God really doesn't want that many people to live there.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  7. #6
    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...ate-in-america

    Support Calexit!


    1. One survey of business executives has ranked California as the worst state in America to do business for 8 years in a row.

    2. In 2011, the state of California ranked 50th out of all 50 states in new business creation.

    3. According to one recent study, California is the worst-governed state in the entire country.

    4. Thanks to Proposition 30, California now boasts the highest state income tax rate in the nation.

    5. Even though California just raised taxes dramatically on the wealthy, state revenues are falling like a rock. State revenue for November 2012 was 10.8 percent below projections.

    6. California has the highest sales tax rate in the United States.

    7. California has the 8th highest corporate income tax rate in the country.

    8. California has the highest “minimum corporate tax” in the country. Each corporation must pay at least $800 to the state even if a corporation does not make a single dollar of profit.

    9. California is tied with New York for the highest gasoline tax rate in the country.

    10. California is the only state in America that taxes carbon emissions.

    11. The state of California issues some of the most expensive traffic tickets in the nation. This is another form of taxation.

    12. As of October, only Nevada and Rhode Island had higher unemployment rates than California.

    13. The unemployment rate in California is more than 20 percent higher than the overall unemployment rate for the rest of the nation.

    14. The state of California requires licenses for 177 different occupations (the most in the nation). The national average is only 92.

    15. California teachers are the highest paid in the nation, but California students rank 48th in math and 49th in reading.

    16. California accounts for 12 percent of the U.S. population, but a whopping 33 percent of Americans that receive TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) live there.

    17. Only the state of Illinois has a lower bond rating than the state of California does.

    18. Including unfunded pension liabilities, the state of California has more than twice as much debt as any other state does.

    19. Average pay for California state workers has risen by more than 100 percent since 2005. That is good news for those state employees, but it is bad news for the taxpayers that have to pay their salaries.

    20. More than 5,000 California state troopers made more than $100,000 last year.

    21. One highway patrol officer ended up bringing home almost $484,000 in 2011.

    22. One state psychiatrist in California was paid $822,000 in 2011.

    23. Since 2007, the number of children living in poverty in the state of California has increased by 30 percent.

    24. Sadly, an astounding 60 percent of all students attending California public schools now qualify for free or reduced-price school lunches.

    25. The American Tort Reform Association has ranked the state of California as the worst “judicial hellhole” in America.

    26. Businesses all over the state of California are being absolutely suffocated to death by ridiculous regulations.

    27. According to the Milken Institute, operating costs for California businesses are 23 percent higher than the national average.

    28. According to CNN, the state of California had the worst “small business failure rate” in America in 2010. It was 69 percent higher than the national average.

    29. The number of people unemployed in the state of California is roughly equivalent to the populations of Nevada, New Hampshire and Vermont combined.

    30. Residential customers in California pay about 29 percent more for electricity than the national average.

    31. So many poor people and illegal aliens have taken advantage of the “free” healthcare at emergency rooms that many of them have been forced to shut down in California. As a result, the state of California now ranks dead last out of all 50 states in the number of emergency rooms per million people.

    32. Political correctness is totally out of control in California.

    33. One California town is actually considering making it illegal to smoke in your own backyard.

    34. The traffic around the big cities is horrific.

    35. Los Angeles

    36. San Francisco

    37. Oakland

    38. Stockton

    39. Sacramento

    40. The rampant gang activity in the state gets even worse with each passing year.

    41. Crime continues to rise all over the state.

    42. Just recently, the city attorney of San Bernardino, California told citizens to “lock their doors and load their guns” because there is not enough money to pay for adequate police protection any longer.

    43. The murder rate in San Bernardino is up 50 percent this year.

    44. In Oakland, burglaries are up 43 percent so far this year.

    45. Today, Oakland is considered the 5th most violent city in the United States.

    46. There have been more than 250 gold chain robberies in Stockton, California just since the month of April.

    47. In Stockton, the police budget cuts got so bad that the police union put up a billboard at one point with the following message: “Welcome to the 2nd most dangerous city in California. Stop laying off cops.”

    48. Jerry Brown.

    49. The absolutely insane California state legislature.

    50. Wildfires.

    51. Mudslides.

    52. The state of California lies directly along the infamous “Ring of Fire“. Approximately 90 percent of all the earthquakes in the entire world happen along the Ring of Fire and the “Big One” could hit the state at any moment.

    53. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 100,000 more people moved out of the state of California in 2011 than moved into it.

    54. During 2011, more than 58,000 people moved from California to the state of Texas.

    55. Overall, the state of California has experienced a net loss of about four million residents to other states over the past 20 years.
    Last edited by seapilot; 01-14-2018 at 09:48 PM.
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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by seapilot View Post
    +Rep
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  9. #8
    CalExit now .



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  11. #9
    I wonder the %age of those people living in poverty in CA are out of staters? I remember watching one of those late night MSNBC documentaries about the homeless people in CA and I was surprised to see that virtually all of them interviewed were transplants from other less prosperous states who failed in their attempt of making it in CA. They started using drugs, got comfortable with the welfare and got stuck there because even the $#@!ty lives in CA was better than what they had back home.

    I seriously wonder if they would be in a better shape if they had a better border control along with other regulation and welfare reforms.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I wonder the %age of those people living in poverty in CA are out of staters? I remember watching one of those late night MSNBC documentaries about the homeless people in CA and I was surprised to see that virtually all of them interviewed were transplants from other less prosperous states who failed in their attempt of making it in CA. They started using drugs, got comfortable with the welfare and got stuck there because even the $#@!ty lives in CA was better than what they had back home.

    I seriously wonder if they would be in a better shape if they had a better border control along with other regulation and welfare reforms.
    Considering LA County is near a 25 percent welfare rate , uh , yes they would be better off with zero welfare .

  13. #11
    California had a population of about 90K when it became a state ( 1850) . By 1900 , nearing 1.5 million . 1930 about 5 1/2 million . 1950 10 million . Since these times it has gone on and on and the poor land and resources are not meant to sustain the 30 million ( 1990) and 39 million ( 2015) or estimated , current 40 million . It will continue to have problems . The final solution is to exclude it from the union .

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Considering LA County is near a 25 percent welfare rate , uh , yes they would be better off with zero welfare .
    Very true but my question is this. Would CA be an even better state if it had the ability to control its border more than it has the ability to do now. Imagine if it could deport unproductive citizens and non citizens to whatever shytehole they came from.

    Not sure if she wants to do that but imagine if she could and has the desire to do so. It would be the greatest state ever

  15. #13
    Sometimes you have to be wise enough to step back and see destiny . California is destined to fail and become worse . They will continue to double down on the fail until they get there .

  16. #14
    Simply put: Wealth Redistribution always flows to the top and away from the bottom. They just play with the numbers to make it look like its going the other way.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Simply put: Wealth Redistribution always flows to the top and away from the bottom. They just play with the numbers to make it look like its going the other way.
    Not according to postmodern cultural marxists - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...dan-B-Peterson
    They were so close to getting it right this time.
    Last edited by timosman; 01-18-2018 at 03:19 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Simply put: Wealth Redistribution always flows to the top and away from the bottom. They just play with the numbers to make it look like its going the other way.
    What wealth is flowing away from the bottom? The bottom doesn't produce wealth. A better statement would be wealth flows from the middle to the bottom and to the politically connected top.



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  20. #17
    Middle class is all but gone. And for the record, it is those at the bottom (bottom 90%, which includes both middle and lower class) that always produced true value. True value is something of actual benefit to society such as goods or services. Those at the bottom are the ones that do the physical work to grow crops, fix cars, build apartments, houses and roads, make our smartphones (yes, mostly done in China or overseas), create our clothing, furniture, and every object and item that lasts both short term and long term. The people at the top produce nothing except policies that benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else lower than themselves on the food chain.

    It is the ones at the top that do produce one thing, a thing that is exceptionally destructive to any society as a whole, and that thing is DEBT. They do NOT loan us money they have, the make us BORROW that DEBT from nothing that existed before into existence and we are expected to repay something they never had to begin with. They have paywalled knowledge and wisdom and almost all information. We are dependent on them for everything we consume and produce even though we are the ones doing the work to create those things of actual value. We are also the ones that do the work to move it all around in a way that we have no power to negotiate prices. They have set up a system that if we produce something, we owe them even more than what we produced.

    This idea of "Wealth Redistribution", which is exactly what IS happening in California and HAS happened in other cities like DETROIT MICHIGAN causes the system to become so top heavy that eventually it will collapse under its own weight. So why is Liberal California the Poverty Capital of America? Because Wealth Redistribution and Socialist Programs always turn out the exact same way, those at the top benefit at the expense of the bottom. California is simply Detroit Michigan on a state wide scale. Perhaps it is a more fair question to ask how Liberal Policies are ANYTHING BUT Wealth Redistribution to benefit those at the top?

    Wealth Redistribution has ALWAYS benefitted those at the top at the expense of the poor, and has had many names. Even in the USSR, Communist Russia, people would be paid the same if you were a Farmer or Doctor, despite the most extreme polar opposites of necessary skills to do both jobs. Wealth Redistribution and a Fiat Currency took down the USSR, just as our Socialist loving Liberal policies destroyed Detroit, it WILL destroy California. It doesnt come as much of a surprise to me that California is splitting down the middle with the MSM push of New California.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    And for the record, it is those at the bottom (bottom 90%, which includes both middle and lower class) that always produced true value. True value is something of actual benefit to society such as goods or services. Those at the bottom are the ones that do the physical work to grow crops, fix cars, build apartments, houses and roads, make our smartphones (yes, mostly done in China or overseas), create our clothing, furniture, and every object and item that lasts both short term and long term. The people at the top produce nothing except policies that benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else lower than themselves on the food chain.
    Nothing about that entire paragraph is correct.

    Wealth is a product of the mind. Wealth comes from people who develop ways to make products better, cheaper, and faster. People 10000 years ago worked hard physically but had primitive standards of living. Most of the population farmed 200 years ago and the country was very poor. Now very few people farm because of technological innovation. A relatively small minority of people have created almost all of the wealth that we enjoy today.

    Or to put it more bluntly, here is what Ludwig von Mises wrote to Ayn Rand "You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the effort of men who are better than you."

  22. #19
    Q: Whats the difference between a Philosopher and a Pizza?
    A: A Pizza can feed a family for a night.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Or to put it more bluntly, here is what Ludwig von Mises wrote to Ayn Rand "You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the effort of men who are better than you."

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Or to put it more bluntly, here is what Ludwig von Mises wrote to Ayn Rand "You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the effort of men who are better than you."
    All of this could be accomplished without making the lives of the masses a living hell.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Nothing about that entire paragraph is correct.

    Wealth is a product of the mind. Wealth comes from people who develop ways to make products better, cheaper, and faster. People 10000 years ago worked hard physically but had primitive standards of living. Most of the population farmed 200 years ago and the country was very poor. Now very few people farm because of technological innovation. A relatively small minority of people have created almost all of the wealth that we enjoy today.

    Or to put it more bluntly, here is what Ludwig von Mises wrote to Ayn Rand "You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the effort of men who are better than you."
    There is a difference between the 1% most of whom produce wealth and the 0.1% most of whom do nothing but rob and tyrannize everyone below them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There is a difference between the 1% most of whom produce wealth and the 0.1% most of whom do nothing but rob and tyrannize everyone below them.
    Let's take a look at at the top .1%

    Who is Bill Gates robbing? I am very happy with Windows 10 as I type this. The employees at Microsoft (as far as a I know) make outstanding livings.

    Who is Charles Koch robbing? Koch Industries makes great products and employs 70,000 people in the US at high paying jobs. They employ a number people at some of the best jobs in the small town I grew up in.

    Jeff Bezos is the wealthiest person in the world. I have purchased a dozen books or so in the last couple of weeks from Amazon many of which I will read on a Amazon Kindle.

    I just went to Wal-Mart today. I bought some delicious Snapple that my more expensive local grocer doesn't carry. The Walton family isn't stealing from me. I thank them.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Let's take a look at at the top .1%

    Who is Bill Gates robbing? I am very happy with Windows 10 as I type this. The employees at Microsoft (as far as a I know) make outstanding livings.

    Who is Charles Koch robbing? Koch Industries makes great products and employs 70,000 people in the US at high paying jobs. They employ a number people at some of the best jobs in the small town I grew up in.

    Jeff Bezos is the wealthiest person in the world. I have purchased a dozen books or so in the last couple of weeks from Amazon many of which I will read on a Amazon Kindle.

    I just went to Wal-Mart today. I bought some delicious Snapple that my more expensive local grocer doesn't carry. The Walton family isn't stealing from me. I thank them.
    Their corrupt relationships with government have NOTHING to do with their wealth?

    Sorry buddy but most of the 0.1% rob and tyrannize everyone below them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Their corrupt relationships with government have NOTHING to do with their wealth?
    No. What corrupt relationship do the Koch's have? They get no special favors from government.

    Bill Gates became the wealthiest in the world without government. His distance from government is what lead the government to go after him in an antitrust case.

    What did government do for Sam Walton when he was building his business? What did the government do for Jeff Bezos?

    My life is much better off from the people I listed either because I use their products or in the case of the Koch's because they funded people like Murray Rothbard and FA Hayek.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Let's take a look at at the top .1%

    Who is Bill Gates robbing? I am very happy with Windows 10 as I type this. The employees at Microsoft (as far as a I know) make outstanding livings.

    Who is Charles Koch robbing? Koch Industries makes great products and employs 70,000 people in the US at high paying jobs. They employ a number people at some of the best jobs in the small town I grew up in.

    Jeff Bezos is the wealthiest person in the world. I have purchased a dozen books or so in the last couple of weeks from Amazon many of which I will read on a Amazon Kindle.

    I just went to Wal-Mart today. I bought some delicious Snapple that my more expensive local grocer doesn't carry. The Walton family isn't stealing from me. I thank them.
    Is this an attempt at humor?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Bill Gates became the wealthiest in the world without government.
    It was mostly his mom sitting on IBM board at the time - Mary Gates, 64; Helped Her Son Start Microsoft
    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/11/ob...microsoft.html

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    No. What corrupt relationship do the Koch's have? They get no special favors from government.

    Bill Gates became the wealthiest in the world without government. His distance from government is what lead the government to go after him in an antitrust case.

    What did government do for Sam Walton when he was building his business? What did the government do for Jeff Bezos?

    My life is much better off from the people I listed either because I use their products or in the case of the Koch's because they funded people like Murray Rothbard and FA Hayek.
    I don't know about the Koch's or Walton but Bezos and Gates are creations of the deep state despite any phony "fights" they may pretend to have withe the government from time to time.
    I keep leaving room for some 0.1%ers to be honest but almost all of them rob us and tyrannize us.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    It was mostly his mom sitting on IBM board at the time - Mary Gates, 64; Helped Her Son Start Microsoft
    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/11/ob...microsoft.html
    So? What does have to do with government or producing good products?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    So? What does have to do with government or producing good products?
    IBM is deepstate, without the deepstate connection Gates would never have gone anywhere, they gave us Microsoft so they could spy on us.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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