Create a problem then offer the solution?
Reply With Quote
Site Information
About Us
- RonPaulForums.com is an independent grassroots outfit not officially connected to Ron Paul but dedicated to his mission. For more information see our Mission Statement.
Create a problem then offer the solution?
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
I didn't think libel was a thing anymore. If it were, every liberal news writer would be sued penniless.
Originally Posted by timosman
This is getting silly.T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Washington heard you didn't like fake news, why don't you want them to fix it for you?
What problem did he create?
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Censorship is the problem he is creating to solve another problem.
What is he censoring?
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Censoring some stuff is okay I guess, if its stuff I don't like.
You didn't answer my question: What is he censoring?
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
If you don't understand that ideas have consequences then you don't understand what Ron Paul has been doing all these years. The establishment understands that ideas have consequences and BAD ideas have BAD consequences.
Dr. Paul also repeats a Victor Hugo quote: "All the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come."
So should people be allowed to smear another person's name endlessly without consequences?
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
What gives the federal government the right to do anything about it?
I don't know if he's succeeded yet. But he has definitely endorsed censorship and attempted it.
https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speec...ess-disgusting
That list is a few months old. So it doesn't include his threat to sue the publisher of Fire and Fury, or his more recent claim that he would change the country's libel laws that the OP mentions.
It would take President Trump an awful lot to try to change the libel laws. It won't happen and there are too many safe guards in place, as it should be, to allow a President to do such. He was just blowing off steam, which I don't blame him with this latest piece of fiction Michael Wolff wrote. He is getting hit from all sides with lies on a daily basis.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
For one thing, libel laws aren't federal, they're state.
But apparently Trump doesn't grasp that.
Trump wants to be able to sue anybody who says something he doesn't like. In England it is easier to do that.
Libel laws discourage free speech. In this case, the publishers and author of that Michael Wolf book critical of him.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-11-2018 at 12:42 PM.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...l-laws-w515331
Trump Still Has No Clue About Libel Laws
It's a day of the week that ends in y, so that means that President Trump must be upset about the media again. This week he's sounding a familiar theme: That he's going to do something about libel laws. And, like every time he's made these comments before, he's showing that he's as idiotic as he is thin-skinned.
This started almost two years ago, when on the campaign trail President Trump promised, if elected, to "open up our libel laws." He was, as he still is, upset about newspapers and others in the media who "write purposely negative and horrible and false articles." He wanted, and still does, to be able to sue them "and win lots of money."
As anyone who follows the news knows, Trump has continued to rail against the media throughout his presidency, but this has taken on new relevance in light of the publication of Michael Wolff's Fire and Fury. The president demanded the book not be published and has threatened to sue now that it has.
Rather than let the firestorm around the book peter out on its own, Trump has continued in his crusade against both the book and the media generally. In doing so, he went back to his favorite topic, libel laws. "Our current libel laws are a sham and a disgrace and do not represent American values or American fairness. So we're going to take a strong look at that. You can't say things that are false, knowingly false and be able to smile as money pours into your bank account."
As with every other time he's talked about libel laws, Trump again proved that he has absolutely no clue what he's talking about. It's impossible to overstate how idiotic these comments are for one simple reason: the president has nothing to do with American libel law.
This is the stuff of Law 101. Libel laws allow people to sue for written defamatory comments. Every state has its own body of law around libel. In contrast, the federal government has no law governing libel. This is one of those many areas of law – like almost all aspects of personal injury law – that the federal government has no say over. Rather, libel law is controlled by the law of 50 different states.
Maybe President Trump understands this and thinks that he has some say in state law? If so, he fails an even more basic aspect of Law 101 – that the president has no say in what laws states have. State governors, state legislatures and state courts do. The president can use his bully pulpit to talk about the issue, but no one has to listen.
That being said, there are two very tangential ways in which the federal government does or can have some say in libel law. First, the federal Constitution protects freedom of speech and press. In 1964, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Constitution protects the press from libel lawsuits by public officials unless the public official can prove that the press acted with "actual malice," meaning that the press knew the statement was true but published it anyway.
This ruling has formed a bedrock principle of American law for over half a century now. Giving Trump the most unwarranted benefit of the doubt ever in history, it's possible he wants to revisit that ruling from the Supreme Court. But, to do so would require a really convoluted legal path that would be difficult to imagine happening for many reasons, not the least of which is that it would require Trump to open himself up to the revelations that come from a lawsuit. It would also require the Supreme Court to go back on this principle, something it has never shown an interest in doing. Alternatively, Trump could try to amend the Constitution to water down the First Amendment, but he's more likely to have success building a wall to keep Canadians from crossing our northern border.
Second, Trump could persuade Congress to pass a law conditioning the receipt of federal money on states changing their libel laws to make it easier to sue the press. Congress is allowed to do this as long as it is not putting too much pressure on the states and the law is related to a federal interest. But this route is almost as unlikely as changing the Supreme Court. No one in Congress is going to have the appetite to push to change libel laws because, among other reasons, this area of the law is completely unrelated to federal interests.
In other words, there’s absolutely nothing doing here. Trump saying that he is going to "open up" libel laws or take a "strong look" at them is pure and utter nonsense that once again shows how utterly ignorant he is about basic points of American law.
FIFY
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
An accusation,, but no link..
Oh,,No's,, ensue
I had been thinking about media misrepresentations,, and NGO disinformation.
Lies really..
and about nearly every subject..
who is accountable,, and does free speech apply to deliberate lies?
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Do you have the entire passage and not just bits and pieces?
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
Trump is the only President in America's history to do the right thing regarding libel laws and free speech.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
Keep apologizing for Leviathan. It won't mean you didn't sell your birthright for porridge, but it'll make you feel better about it.
Of course he doesn't. The man hasn't ever read the Constitution and when someone tried he got bored and couldn't pay attention. The word TRUMP wasn't in it enough I guess.
This is a worthless post.
Without any source to tell us what DJTvsg is doing how are we supposed to decide whether it is good or bad?
There need to be libel laws but they shouldn't be overly restrictive, it is a delicate balance and impossible to discuss without details.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Thank you for the Fake News update.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
The adulterous pornographer would have to have a good name to smear first.
And yes, people are allowed to say what they wish. That is what "freedom of speech" is all about- the freedom for me to use speech in any way I choose and you have no power to use violence to limit me.
Yes. That's all Trump was doing, trying to add a delicate balance of nuance to a complicated issue via a Twitter post. And the stupid media just needs to oversimplify everything because they don't look into it as deeply as Trump does.
Even though Trump doesn't know that the libel laws he's supposedly going to change are state matters that are outside his purview as president.
But still, aside from that, "delicate" is precisely the right word for his pontificating.
What are you talking about? I didn't link Breitbart or Fox News in my post.
Are you going to link to his tweet so we can discuss it? (The ACLU article doesn't count)
In any case Trump's tweets are meaningless, he deliberately says hyperbolic things to get his enemies to run around in circles, tell me if he DOES something and we can discuss whether it is good or not.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
I take it back, this latest one apparently wasn't a tweet.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/b...laws.html?_r=0“We are going to take a strong look at our country’s libel laws, so that when somebody says something that is false and defamatory about someone, that person will have meaningful recourse in our courts,” Mr. Trump said during a public portion of a cabinet meeting in the White House.
The president added, “Our current libel laws are a sham and a disgrace and do not represent American values or American fairness.”
On previous occasions he has used Twitter to express his delicately honed views on this complex matter though. This article has an example from October.
https://www.npr.org/2018/01/10/57710...them-as-a-sham
Firstly I don't see any specifics to debate, when he makes a suggestion of what he wants changed we can discuss it.“We are going to take a strong look at our country’s libel laws, so that when somebody says something that is false and defamatory about someone, that person will have meaningful recourse in our courts,” Mr. Trump said during a public portion of a cabinet meeting in the White House.
The president added, “Our current libel laws are a sham and a disgrace and do not represent American values or American fairness.”
Secondly when he says "We" he didn't define it or say that the changes would or could be made at the federal level, let me know when he tries to have a change made at the federal level or the state level.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Posting Permissions
Connect With Us