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Thread: Trump contradicts self repeatedly in immigration meeting

  1. #1

    Default Trump contradicts self repeatedly in immigration meeting

    http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/politi...ons/index.html

    Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump appeared to contradict himself multiple times in a meeting on immigration with a bipartisan group of lawmakers Tuesday -- a reflection of growing frustration from Capitol Hill about the lack of direction from the White House on the issue.

    The President at times suggested he would be looking to sign everything from a stand-alone fix for the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program -- set to expire in March -- to comprehensive immigration reform, often appearing to being guided by lawmakers in the room to modify his positions.

    The comments came during a nearly hour-long conversation between the roughly two dozen lawmakers, the President and White House staff that the press was allowed to record -- a window into the difficult negotiations that still surround the issue of replacing DACA, which protected young undocumented immigrants who came to the US as children from deportation, and border security.

    At the end of the session, Trump suggested that ultimately, he would sign whatever he was presented with.

    "I think my positions are going to be what the people in this room come up with," Trump said. "If they come to me with things I'm not in love with, I'm going to do it. Because I respect them."

    Sens. Jeff Flake and James Lankford after the meeting both said the meeting was surprisingly helpful and they appreciated the President adding some clarity to the discussions, while noting hammering out the details remains to be worked out.

    Lankford acknowledged that the meeting got "confusing," saying though Trump at the beginning defined "DACA" as a deal that included DACA plus border security and two other areas of reform, it was unclear during some parts of the meeting.

    "It got confusing at times, in fact he said later, 'I just want a clean DACA and we'll do a comprehensive later,' and some of us said, 'Whoa, what do you mean by that?' And he came back to those four items," the Oklahoma Republican told reporters afterward.

    The White House declared the meeting a success in a statement released Tuesday afternoon.

    "President Donald J. Trump just concluded a successful bipartisan and bicameral meeting on immigration reform," press secretary Sarah Sanders said in the statement. "During the closed-door portion of the meeting, they reached an agreement to negotiate legislation that accomplishes critically needed reforms in four high-priority areas: border security, chain migration, the visa lottery, and the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy."

    Trump's equivocation was the opposite of what lawmakers have long sought from the President. Republicans especially have pushed for the administration to draw clear lines around what would be a doable deal, giving them cover with the base to compromise and giving them leverage with Democrats to move the debate forward.

    Asked if Tuesday provided the clarity that lawmakers have been asking for, Lankford said there was still more to be done.

    "Oh no, there's still some room to go on it," he said. "They're continuing to get more and more clear on what they're putting out, we're getting closer and closer."

    Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn made the point directly to Trump during the meeting, saying that House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell both told the President at a legislative retreat with Republicans over the weekend that only a bill with Trump's support would move forward for a vote.

    "So, that's I think the picture that we need to be looking through, the lens we need to be looking through, not only what can we agree to among ourselves on a bipartisan basis, but what will you sign into law," Cornyn said. "Because we all want to get to a solution here and we realize the clock is ticking."

    But details in the meeting were still hard to come by.
    More at link.

    At one point, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, suggested to Trump that Congress could pass the "Dream Act" alone, which would provide a path to citizenship for DACA recipients and which has been Democrats' starting point demand, and then turn to comprehensive reform.

    When Trump indicated he would agree to that, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy said border security would have to be part of the package, prompting Trump to say that's what he thought Feinstein meant, and then a flurry of clarifications.

    Trump said his version of a "clean" deal would include DACA, border security, ending "chain migration" or family-based migration, and ending the diversity visa lottery. But those issues are commonly thought to only be achievable in a comprehensive immigration deal.
    Trump then both endorsed doing comprehensive immigration reform sooner and later.


    Lawmakers working on a DACA deal have long fought to keep the bill narrow, saying adding more into it would only make it collapse under its own wait.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-09-2018 at 04:22 PM.



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  3. #2

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    President Donald Trump appeared to contradict himself...

    I stopped reading after this first line of equivocation.


    ap·pear
    əˈpir/
    verb

    seem; give the impression of being.
    Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 01-09-2018 at 04:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I do think that ID should be required for certain things like carrying a concealed weapon...




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  4. #3

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    Last time I saw a ghost appear was on trick or treat.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I do think that ID should be required for certain things like carrying a concealed weapon...




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  5. #4

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    Zippy citing CNN.....
    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

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    deja vu? I'm sure I've seen this exact thread and these responses on this forum before...
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    deja vu? I'm sure I've seen this exact thread and these responses on this forum before...
    The televised meeting today caught the left off-guard. It was an all hands red-alert to all operatives to put a negative spin on it. Thus Zippy went into action. They should come up with something better by tomorrow.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7

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    Lawmakers working on a DACA deal have long fought to keep the bill narrow, saying adding more into it would only make it collapse under its own wait.
    No time for proof reading on this one. Rush job.

    Kind of ironic though. The immigration debate is all about waiting. Wait long enough, and there will be no way to deport anyone. Today's illegal immigrant is a long established resident in ten years. Can't deport them, it would be cruel.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    No time for proof reading on this one. Rush job.

    Kind of ironic though. The immigration debate is all about waiting. Wait long enough, and there will be no way to deport anyone. Today's illegal immigrant is a long established resident in ten years. Can't deport them, it would be cruel.
    Ron agrees.

    http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm

    Give illegals limbo status: a green card with an asterisk

    Immigrants who can't be sent back due to the magnitude of the problem should not be given citizenship--no amnesty should be granted. Maybe a "green card" with an asterisk could be issued. This in-between status, keeping illegal immigrants in limbo, will be said that it will create a class of 2nd-class citizens. Yet it could be argued that it may well allow some immigrants who come here illegally a beneficial status without automatic citizenship--a much better option than deportation.

    Source: Liberty Defined, by Rep. Ron Paul, p.156 , Apr 19, 2011

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    Give illegals limbo status: a green card with an asterisk

    Immigrants who can't be sent back due to the magnitude of the problem should not be given citizenship--no amnesty should be granted. Maybe a "green card" with an asterisk could be issued. This in-between status, keeping illegal immigrants in limbo, will be said that it will create a class of 2nd-class citizens. Yet it could be argued that it may well allow some immigrants who come here illegally a beneficial status without automatic citizenship--a much better option than deportation.

    Source: Liberty Defined, by Rep. Ron Paul, p.156 , Apr 19, 2011
    Your reading comprehension sucks, Zippy.

    Ron clearly means that the illegals should not be given any form of amnesty.

    He has said many times that they will self-deport if we deny them services and status.

    Why don't you emigrate to El Salvador or Nicaragua, Zippy.

    They could use some of your genius.
    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    Give illegals limbo status: a green card with an asterisk



    Your reading comprehension sucks, Zippy.

    Ron clearly means that the illegals should not be given any form of amnesty.

    He has said many times that they will self-deport if we deny them services and status.

    Why don't you emigrate to El Salvador or Nicaragua, Zippy.

    They could use some of your genius.
    A document which allows them to stay is a form of amnesty.

    It’s an economic issue more than anything. If our economy was in good health, I don’t think there’d be an immigration problem. We’d be looking for workers and we would be very generous.
    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

    "I believe Hispanics have been used as scapegoats, to say, they're the problem instead of being a symptom maybe of a problem with the welfare state," Paul told the group. "In Nazi Germany they had to have scapegoats to blame and they turned on the Jews.

    "Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

    Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

    What the country does need, he said, is "a much better immigration service" fed by more resources. Not that he'd "vote for extra money." But he does, he told the crowd, have a plan.

    https://mises.org/blog/ron-paul-sums...ws-immigration

    On Trump's plan to round up and deport 15 million people:

    Ron Paul: How practical do you think this would be to round up 15 million people without any consideration for due process?

    McAdams: You’d essentially need a police state because you’d practically have to be going to go door to door almost, because they don’t keep track of these people.

    Ron Paul: I think it’s impossible.
    On building a wall and controlling labor:

    Daniel McAdams: When we worked on immigration in your office, you were generally friendly with people who wanted some controls on the border. But we ran into terrible troubles with the extreme on [the conservative] side which wanted an authoritarian state here. They wanted "E-Verify" which means every American would have to prove he has a right to work in his own country. And then there's the wall they want.

    Ron Paul: You’ll need a really efficient wall and a coast guard that goes up and down the coast blowing boats out of the water…The idea of building walls around the country, I think it’s a joke. I could never take a position that we need more barbed wire to solve this problem.
    This position, of course, is consistent with Paul's usual laissez-faire positions in that it rejects government solutions in the form of ID cards, surveillance, regulation, and walls. At the same time, it calls for real reductions in government’s size and scope by reducing government controls on employment and labor, while reducing the welfare state. Limitations on citizenship are also consistent with this position since limiting citizenship (ceteris paribus) does not require an expansion of the state or intrusions in the free exercise of private property.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-09-2018 at 08:29 PM.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    You really are mentally retarded, aren't you , Zippy.

    They must get you guys from the group home to troll and pay you by the word.
    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

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    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ation-problem/

    How to Solve the Illegal Immigration Problem
    written by ron paul

    Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s recent speech on immigration really missed the point. I understand Trump’s frustration over the US government’s inability to control the US borders and keep out those who would come to this country illegally. Trump was right that the media ignore legitimate questions we have on our immigration policy and he is right that special interests have a great interest in maintaining the status quo.

    However when it comes to really solving the immigration problem he gets it all wrong. And instead of making us more free and prosperous, his solutions will accelerate our downward slide toward authoritarianism.

    First let’s consider his idea of building a big wall between the US and Mexico. It is said that all one needs to get over an eight foot fence is a nine foot ladder. Or perhaps a shovel. So walls are never very good at keeping people out. But they are very good at keeping people in. Just ask the East Germans. The communist government claimed in 1961 that it had to build a wall around the portion of Berlin it controlled to keep the population safe from the evil capitalist wreckers and saboteurs. It didn’t take long for the world to realize that the real threat to the East German leaders was that the people trapped in East Berlin would try to get out. We have all seen the horrific videos of East German civilians risking – and losing – their lives to escape that prison of razor wire and cinder block.

    Is this really what we want for our own future?

    What a wild conspiracy theory, some may claim. The wall would never be meant to keep us from leaving. Well ask the IRS. Under a tax enforcement provision passed in 2015, the US government claimed the right to cancel any American citizen’s passport if Washington claims it is owed money.

    Trump also made E-Verify the center of his immigration speech. He said, “We will ensure that E-Verify is used to the fullest extent possible under existing law, and we will work with Congress to strengthen and expand its use across the country.”

    While preventing those here illegally from being able to gain employment may appeal to many who would like to protect American jobs, E-Verify is the worst possible solution. It is a police state non-solution, as it would require the rest of us legal American citizens to carry a biometric national ID card connected to a government database to prove that the government allows us to work. A false positive would result in financial disaster for millions of American families, as one would be forced to fight a faceless government bureaucracy to correct the mistake. Want to put TSA in charge of deciding if you are eligible to work?

    The battle against illegal immigration is a ploy to gain more control over our lives. We are supposed to be terrified of the hoards of Mexicans streaming into our country and thus grant the government new authority over the rest of us. But in fact a Pew study found that between 2009 and 2014 there was a net loss of 140,000 Mexican immigrants from the United States. Yes, this is a government “solution” in search of a real problem.

    How to tackle the real immigration problem? Eliminate incentives for those who would come here to live off the rest of us, and make it easier and more rational for those who wish to come here legally to contribute to our economy. No walls, no government databases, no biometric national ID cards. But not a penny in welfare for immigrants. It’s really that simple.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-09-2018 at 08:39 PM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Sorry, you spun that one right into a falsehood. Ron said due to the magnitude of the problem, not cruelty. But the left loves to use emotionalism and bleeding heartism to get their way. The strategy is to delay long enough that enforcement seems too late.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Sorry, you spun that one right into a falsehood. Ron said due to the magnitude of the problem, not cruelty. But the left loves to use emotionalism and bleeding heartism to get their way. The strategy is to delay long enough that enforcement seems too late.
    He mentions the cruelty as well.

    http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm

    Sending 12M illegals home won't & shouldn't happen

    Even with a healthy economy and stricter border controls, the issue of what to do with twelve-million-plus illegals already here would persist. One side says use the U.S. Army, round them up, and ship them home. The other side says give them amnesty, make them full-fledged citizens, and reward the lawbreakers, thus insulting and unfairly penalizing those who have patiently waited and obeyed our immigration laws. The first choice--sending twelve to fifteen million illegals home--isn't going to happen and should not happen. Neither the determination or the ability to accomplish it exists. Besides, if each case is looked at separately, we would find ourselves splitting up families and deporting some who have lived here for decades, if not their entire life, and who never lived for any length of time in Mexico.
    Source: Liberty Defined, by Rep. Ron Paul, p.153 , Apr 19, 2011

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Sorry, you spun that one right into a falsehood. Ron said due to the magnitude of the problem, not cruelty. But the left loves to use emotionalism and bleeding heartism to get their way. The strategy is to delay long enough that enforcement seems too late.
    Just the tip.
    Last edited by timosman; 01-09-2018 at 09:01 PM.
    Truth is a social construct.

  17. #16

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    Zippy, will you take up arms against the government to stop removal of illegal aliens?
    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

  18. #17

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    Will Zippy ever call for the end of the welfare state as Ron Paul does to discourage illegal aliens coming here?


     
    no

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  19. #18

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    I just want a 120 foot wall. Is that so much to ask for?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Will Zippy ever call for the end of the welfare state as Ron Paul does to discourage illegal aliens coming here?


     
    no
    As has been discussed, illegal immigrants are already do not qualify for federal benefits. Legal immigrants must wait at least five years.

    Some states may choose to offer them benefits.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    As has been discussed, illegal immigrants are already do not qualify for federal benefits. Legal immigrants must wait at least five years.
    The states are coerced into offering the benefits.

    Nice try, 'tard.
    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    As has been discussed, illegal immigrants are already do not qualify for federal benefits. Legal immigrants must wait at least five years.

  23. #22

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I just want a 120 foot wall. Is that so much to ask for?
    That might be long enough to cover the back fence.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That might be long enough to cover the back fence.
    Better than nothing which is what we have now

    (Thanks obama)
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  26. #25

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    He 'appeared' to contradict himself? He did.
    This is the essence of tragedy,
    To have meant well and made woe, and watch Fate,
    All stone, approach

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Better than nothing which is what we have now

    (Thanks obama)
    Actually there is over 600 miles of wall between the US and Mexico already.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Actually there is over 600 miles of wall between the US and Mexico already.
    Are you going to be here for 8 hours today?
    Truth is a social construct.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Are you going to be here for 8 hours today?
    Thank you for your informative contribution to the discussion.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Are you going to be here for 8 hours today?

    ZippyJuan the First always comments how busy he is working in the grocery store. I'm guessing this ZippyJuan the Second, the young eager beaver.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I do think that ID should be required for certain things like carrying a concealed weapon...




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  31. #30

    Default

    This is so like CNN - and they get plenty of sheep to follow and buy into some slanted perspective so easily - some even on RPF unfortunately.

    It appears there was a bipartisan meeting about immigration that Trump went in with some degree or spirit of maybe "compromise" (?) -
    I really see it as him having less faith in the GOP leadership to get 'er done than just some simpleton analysis of being "contradictory".

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