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Thread: The US is a Tax Free Haven

  1. #1

    The US is a Tax Free Haven

    Nearly half the population pays no income tax. Many people even get paid money that they did not contribute.
    What right does a person that pays no tax have to complain about taxes or what is done with the money?
    All the rich must be stupid if they pay most all of the taxes and still vote for liberal programs.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    All the rich must be stupid if they pay most all of the taxes and still vote for liberal programs.
    The problem is there are very few rich people to vote for lower taxes on rich people, and also, some rich people are rich because of taxation and liberal programs.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Nearly half the population pays no income tax. Many people even get paid money that they did not contribute.
    Almost everybody pays some level of tax on income: FICA, SS taxes etc.

    What right does a person that pays no tax have to complain about taxes or what is done with the money?
    Again, everybody gets hit with taxes, they are embedded and inserted into everything.

    All the rich must be stupid if they pay most all of the taxes and still vote for liberal programs.
    The rich happily pay high taxes for heavy handed government that keeps all of us riff-raff in line, and out of their gated communities and yacht clubs.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The rich happily pay high taxes for heavy handed government that keeps all of us riff-raff in line, and out of their gated communities and yacht clubs.
    It's ok though because I'll be rich some day too.

    Heard the TSA is giving out big raises this year, like 35 cents/hr
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  6. #5
    Everything is taxed. Excessively.

    I have no income and am still taxed.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post

    Heard the TSA is giving out big raises this year, like 35 cents/hr
    Walmart got better than that.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Everything is taxed. Excessively.

    I have no income and am still taxed.
    Sounds to me like you live in an area with no income tax.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Sounds to me like you live in an area with no income tax.
    Nope.
    I have no income,, and have not for several years.. and by none,,,I mean less than $1000.00.
    I'll take odd jobs,, or gifts.. but am generally unemployed.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  11. #9
    So you pay no income tax.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    So you pay no income tax.
    I have not paid income tax since 2007, I have paid property tax, sales tax, Gasoline tax, and medication Tax.

    I don't get anything back.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #11
    I do not and have not paid income tax in years. As such I am am a conscientious objector. As such I am an outlaw to those that lord it over the land I was born and raised in. Subject to fines, levies, penalties imprisonment and even death. So I'll say or act how I choose without another sanctimoniously implying that I have given up my say. Taxation is theft.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  14. #12
    In this day and age I would imagine a couple making 40k or less would pay little or no tax.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    In this day and age I would imagine a couple making 40k or less would pay little or no tax.
    you have a vivid imagination.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    you have a vivid imagination.
    To be this ignorant, from a member of 8 yrs., seems to border on feigned ignorance in an attempt to troll.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    In this day and age I would imagine a couple making 40k or less would pay little or no tax.
    When I made 40 - 50k a yr my take home was around 24K to 31K a year after I put 3 to 6 percent in a 401K , paid my 100 a month towards health ins and with held state tax , county tax , fed tax , soc sec tax . medica tax and rarely got back more than 500 bucks , so , most of the missing 16 to 19K was tax pd . Then pd a few grand in property tax . I actually lived on enough to buy groceries and pay utilities , LOL. Good Lord , glad I am out of that game .

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    In this day and age I would imagine a couple making 40k or less would pay little or no tax.
    Most of the guys I knew in my 30's in the 30 to 50k range probably lived on 25 to 33 percent of the income they made and spent the rest on taxes and child support .



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  20. #17
    The US is pretty close to a tax haven for me now . But that is because of the ridiculous tax code which I now encourage them to keep .

  21. #18
    Where I live there is no tax on food , gold or silver coins . If you show no income or an income under a certain amount , have business expenses etc, about all the tax you will have is property tax , gasoline taxes , sales tax on utilities and soc sec tax and medica tax .

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    When I made 40 - 50k a yr my take home was around 24K to 31K a year after I put 3 to 6 percent in a 401K , paid my 100 a month towards health ins and with held state tax , county tax , fed tax , soc sec tax . medica tax and rarely got back more than 500 bucks , so , most of the missing 16 to 19K was tax pd . Then pd a few grand in property tax . I actually lived on enough to buy groceries and pay utilities , LOL. Good Lord , glad I am out of that game .
    So if you made 40k and were married your exemption now would be 24k. If you contributed to a 401 that would lower your taxable income. Many companies offer pre-tax insurance so the money you pay for your insurance reduces your income. With the way the system is set up, you could probably qualify for housing assistance, food stamps, heating assistance or other entitlements.

    As you mention in post 18, you pay very little tax.

    A person doing odd jobs for cash would probably be wise to claim some income and pay the SS and medicare. Don't claim too much. A working poor person is entitled to earned income credit. Load up your IRA or 401k, pay little or no tax and not have the fear of avoiding the IRS on your back.

    In my situation, I don't work. My wife makes closer to 100k than 50k. We have 2 kids in college. We save big dollars on the college because I don't work. Kids are entitled to Pell Grants and obligation for college is much smaller. We have a rental property that gets depreciated and one of the units has been vacant. Wife contributes to 401k and has her insurance pre-tax. In 2018 our tax liability will be zero and we will get money back.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    So if you made 40k and were married your exemption now would be 24k. If you contributed to a 401 that would lower your taxable income. Many companies offer pre-tax insurance so the money you pay for your insurance reduces your income. With the way the system is set up, you could probably qualify for housing assistance, food stamps, heating assistance or other entitlements.

    As you mention in post 18, you pay very little tax.

    A person doing odd jobs for cash would probably be wise to claim some income and pay the SS and medicare. Don't claim too much. A working poor person is entitled to earned income credit. Load up your IRA or 401k, pay little or no tax and not have the fear of avoiding the IRS on your back.

    In my situation, I don't work. My wife makes way over 50k. We have 2 kids in college. We save big dollars on the college because I don't work. Kids are entitled to Pell Grants and obligation for college is much smaller. We have a rental property that gets depreciated and one of the units has been vacant. Wife contributes to 401k and has her insurance pre-tax. In 2018 our tax liability will be zero and we will get money back.
    I pay very little tax now , I pd thousands then . My children were already grown the only exemptions I had of anything worthwhile were mortgage interest .

  24. #21
    I paid over 70k in taxes one year when I owned my printing company.

    2018 taxes will be very favorable for us. But as mentioned we were smart and reduced the income. If I worked nearly all my income would go to taxes and our net income would be less because the kids college would cost more and they would lose their Pell grants.

    In your situation today, and mine, and many other American's the US is a tax haven.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    I paid over 70k in taxes one year when I owned my printing company.

    2018 taxes will be very favorable for us. But as mentioned we were smart and reduced the income. If I worked nearly all my income would go to taxes and our net income would be less because the kids college would cost more and they would lose their Pell grants.

    In your situation today, and mine, and many other American's the US is a tax haven.
    I am really having difficulty grasping your reality, and the convoluted psudologic that comforts you.

    Your chains really do rest lightly.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    To be this ignorant, from a member of 8 yrs., seems to border on feigned ignorance in an attempt to troll.
    No ignorance or trolling here.

    It is simple math. A person that does not make very much money or can shield their income via retirement plans or has dependents, does not pay very much or any income tax. Fact is a person that is lower income can in many instances receive money when they fill out their return.

    I remember Rand suggesting a flat tax and eliminating SS and Medicare withholdings. Flat tax at 10% would be worse off for the low income people than what they have today. Now everyone pays a little over 7% towards their portion of SS and medicare. If a 10% flat tax were implemented they would pay more. Parents that have children 16 years or younger get to check a special box and receive a credit for each child even if they owe no tax. People in that lower income bracket would probably also be eligible for free health insurance.

    Simple math and proper use of the forms. Wife grosses approx 80k in 2018 and we will not pay any income tax. Both college children will get grants and the cost of their college will be minimal. We will not pay any tax and get money back.
    Last edited by Schifference; 01-04-2018 at 07:41 AM.

  27. #24
    Income tax for family of 2 making 40k contributing only 2k to retirement. No house or other deductions.

    Summary Table

    Estimated Tax Analysis
    Gross income
    (subject to personal rates) $40,000
    Taxable Pass-Through Income + $0
    Qualified plan contributions - $2,000
    Adjusted gross income = $38,000
    Standard/Itemized deductions - $24,000
    Taxable income = $14,000
    Tax liability before credits
    (includes taxes on pass-through income) $1,400
    Child tax credits - $0
    Family tax credits - $1,000
    Estimated tax liability = $400


    Same 40k family except with 2 kids and putting 2k into retirement gets money back.

    Summary Table

    Estimated Tax Analysis
    Gross income
    (subject to personal rates) $40,000
    Taxable Pass-Through Income + $0
    Qualified plan contributions - $2,000
    Adjusted gross income = $38,000
    Standard/Itemized deductions - $24,000
    Taxable income = $14,000
    Tax liability before credits
    (includes taxes on pass-through income) $1,400
    Child tax credits - $4,000
    Family tax credits - $0
    Estimated tax liability = $0
    Refundable Child Tax Credit $2,600

    Same 40k 2 kids no house or retirement savings

    Summary Table

    Estimated Tax Analysis
    Gross income
    (subject to personal rates) $40,000
    Taxable Pass-Through Income + $0
    Qualified plan contributions - $0
    Adjusted gross income = $40,000
    Standard/Itemized deductions - $24,000
    Taxable income = $16,000
    Tax liability before credits
    (includes taxes on pass-through income) $1,600
    Child tax credits - $4,000
    Family tax credits - $0
    Estimated tax liability = $0
    Refundable Child Tax Credit $2,400

    https://www.calcxml.com/calculators/...r?skn=#results
    Last edited by Schifference; 01-04-2018 at 08:03 AM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Simple math and proper use of the forms. Wife grosses approx 80k in 2018 and we will not pay any income tax. Both college children will get grants and the cost of their college will be minimal. We will not pay any tax and get money back.
    Yes, this is correct, you will not pay much, if any income tax.

    You will pay FICA and SS and property and sales and gas and excise and vehicle and transportation and airline and cable and cel phone and user taxes.

    And all the taxes that are embedded in everything you buy.

    You're a family of four living in CT.

    Let me see your books, and I'll show how you are paying approximately 50% of your yearly income in direct and indirect taxation.

  30. #26
    No question there are taxes and always will be taxes.
    As I am sure you noticed I purchased a property in South Carolina to get out of this expensive property tax here. We have discussed NH in the past and they have expensive property tax.
    A smart person will minimize what they have to purchase and pay less tax.
    A capable person can minimize tax. For example I can do any home remodeling myself. If a person hires out to have drywall, windows, roof, siding....... done by a contractor they pay sales tax on all the work. They also need to generate a huge income to pay for the cost of the materials, labor, markup, sales tax....... If I have no employment and purchase my material at wholesale pricing and pay no income tax, no SS tax, I end up with a new home and did not pay the taxes or expense that the consumer paid.

    This is true with many things. A couple weeks ago my plow truck would not run. Truck is a classic 1970 K20 4x4. I diagnosed the carburetor was the issue. I checked a new Edelbrock was around $350. I purchased a kit and supplies and rebuilt the one on the truck for around $50. Imagine what a garage would charge for the diagnosis and new or rebuilt carburetor and sales tax would be charge on the entire bill. I fixed my vehicle for the cost someone else would pay in sales tax.

    Next time you go out to eat look at the bill and notice that you could eat at home and have better food for the cost of tax and tip. I pay no sales tax on grocery food but do pay when dining out.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yes, this is correct, you will not pay much, if any income tax.

    You will pay FICA and SS and property and sales and gas and excise and vehicle and transportation and airline and cable and cel phone and user taxes.

    And all the taxes that are embedded in everything you buy.

    You're a family of four living in CT.

    Let me see your books, and I'll show how you are paying approximately 50% of your yearly income in direct and indirect taxation.

    I stopped working because we had less net income and more liability and expenses with me working making over 50k as a nurse. And when you fill out the dreaded FAFSA for the kids college, our portion of the schooling was huge thus burdening us with huge debt. Lower income caused all those concerns to vanish and the kids get Grants that don't have to be repaid. You probably remember me bragging about my son that scored perfect on math SAT's and got full tuition scholarship to RPI in Troy NY. Room and board freshman year was expensive and there are some fees that are not considered tuition. Bottom line is this year he is an RA and his total costs to go to this great school is around 5k and he receives a Pell Grant for around 3500. So he is going to this school for practically free.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yes, this is correct, you will not pay much, if any income tax.

    You will pay FICA and SS and property and sales and gas and excise and vehicle and transportation and airline and cable and cel phone and user taxes.

    And all the taxes that are embedded in everything you buy.



    You're a family of four living in CT.

    Let me see your books, and I'll show how you are paying approximately 50% of your yearly income in direct and indirect taxation.
    Then you should agree that income tax should not be a very big concern for a large percentage of the population.
    I agree that other taxes are a huge problem.
    Another expense associated with living in New England is the salt tax. What I mean by that is the terrible chemicals they use to treat our roads that destroy our vehicles. I see cars most in fact that after 10 years are all rotted out.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Nearly half the population pays no income tax. Many people even get paid money that they did not contribute.
    What right does a person that pays no tax have to complain about taxes or what is done with the money?
    All the rich must be stupid if they pay most all of the taxes and still vote for liberal programs.
    Yes, everybody should pay more taxes, just like what Ron Paul says.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by dean.engelhardt View Post
    Yes, everybody should pay more taxes, just like what Ron Paul says.
    How can you construe that from anything I have said?

    I think Ron Paul would take every tax deduction afforded him when filling out his return.
    Last edited by Schifference; 01-04-2018 at 10:23 AM.

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