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Thread: Which is worse, Obama's support for progressive taxation or Trump's support for tariffs?

  1. #1

    Default Which is worse, Obama's support for progressive taxation or Trump's support for tariffs?

    I've been arguing with one of our renowned left wing members about progressive taxation vs targeted tariffs. I think that progressive taxation is a much bigger injustice than specific tariffs for several reasons.

    1. Progressive taxes force a small minority to pay for government. If you going to force people to pay for government isn't it less immoral to make everyone pay instead of a small group?

    2. Progressive taxation has a vote buying dynamic sometimes called tyranny of the majority that tends to get out of hand. Politicians that promise to steal from a minority and give to the majority tend to be the ones that get elected. Targeted tariffs are the opposite. They tend to benefit a small group at the expense of the majority so the vote buying dynamic doesn't exist.

    3. Because of #2, the amounts stolen from progressive taxation are much, much larger than from tariffs. The top rate on our most productive citizens is 39%!
    Compare that to revenue collected in tariffs which is only 30 billion and comes out to a mere .25% of an average citizen's income.

    Basically because of the vote buying dynamic, progressive taxation is more immoral because it's a much, much bigger amount stolen from a much smaller group.

    And for you anarchists, yes we know, all taxation is theft. But some theft is worse than others.



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  3. #2

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    If government is a necessity...like national defense function (not endless offenses), tariffs (small and across the board, no favoritism) make more sense than our current “Individual Income Tax.”). Which amongst other things, invades privacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Drudge is a traitor to the Leader and the Revolution.



    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


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    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    If government is a necessity...like national defense function (not endless offenses), tariffs (small and across the board, no favoritism) make more sense than our current “Individual Income Tax.”). Which amongst other things, invades privacy.
    What Danke said.

  5. #4

  6. #5

    Default

    I’d personally prefer a small consumption tax to either. Again, this assumes a small government focused solely on our national defense and ensuring our inalienable rights are protected. Income/property tax is, by far, in my opinion the worst of our government stealing schemes as it essentially means your income or property is not your own, but the governments. They either let you live in their house for a small fee, drive their car for a small fee or have some money for a small fee. Essentially relegating everyone to slaves of the government. Tariffs, while better for most, are extremely targeted taxes which hurt individual industries. It allows the government to help determine winners and losers and skews the markets.

    A consumption tax on the other hand treats absolutely everyone equally. It also gives everyone a choice to opt out as much as they’d like by allowing them to consume what they produce.

    The problem is, they don’t get to pick winners and losers so they don’t get to peddle their influence so it’ll never happen.

  7. #6

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    Does Trump's support for tariffs include eliminating the progressive income tax?

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    If government is a necessity...like national defense function (not endless offenses), tariffs (small and across the board, no favoritism) make more sense than our current “Individual Income Tax.”). Which amongst other things, invades privacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What Danke said.
    What AF said about what Danke said.
    “[T]he enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.” (Heller, 554 U.S., at ___, 128 S.Ct., at 2822.)

    How long before "going liberal" replaces "going postal"?

  9. #8

    Default

    What mrsat_98 said about what AF said about what Danke said. Also what Origanalist asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe






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  11. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    If government is a necessity...like national defense function (not endless offenses), tariffs (small and across the board, no favoritism) make more sense than our current “Individual Income Tax.”). Which amongst other things, invades privacy.
    Right, but what about targeted tariffs where only certain things are protected? My point is that even in that case progressive taxation is much worse because it targets a minority and because of that it gets out of control.

    I'm not sensing a lot of sympathy for the most productive members of society in this thread, which is very disappointing considering this is a Ron Paul website. I think we should be embarrassed as a nation that we have a top rate of 39%.

    Have you ever noticed that reductions in middle class taxes are called "deductions" but reductions for the wealthy are called "loopholes"? Why it that?

  12. #10

    Default

    Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. What offends me is not so much the income tax, but the progressive income tax. A flat income tax sucks but it's not really an injustice since we all have to pay. What I consider a HUGE injustice is the progressive income tax where the most productive have to pay a higher rate than everyone else. And since they are a small minority they have no recourse at the voting booth.

    Isn't it more immoral to steal from a small group vs stealing from everyone equally? If a group of people go out to dinner isn't it wrong to make one guy pay?

  13. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    What mrsat_98 said about what AF said about what Danke said. Also what Origanalist asked.
    ^^^THIS^^^
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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