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Thread: The Lower Your Social Class, the 'Wiser' You Are, Suggests New Study

  1. #1

    Default The Lower Your Social Class, the 'Wiser' You Are, Suggests New Study

    https://science.slashdot.org/story/1...ests-new-study

    Wisdom -- the ability to take the perspectives of others into account and aim for compromise -- comes much more naturally to those who grow up poor or working class, according to a new study by social psychologist Igor Grossman at the University of Waterloo in Canada and his colleagues. Science Magazine reports:

    To conduct the study, Grossmann and his graduate student Justin Brienza embarked on a two-part experiment. First, they asked 2145 people throughout the United States to take an online survey. Participants were asked to remember a recent conflict they had with someone, such as an argument with a spouse or a fight with a friend. They then answered 20 questions applicable to that or any conflict, including: "Did you ever consider a third-party perspective?" "How much did you try to understand the other person's viewpoint?" and "Did you consider that you might be wrong?" Grossmann and Brienza crunched the data and assigned the participants both a "wise reasoning" score based on the conflict answers and a "social class" score, then plotted the two scores against one another. They found that people with the lowest social class scores -- those with less income, less education, and more worries about money -- scored about twice as high on the wise reasoning scale as those in the highest social class. The income and education levels ranged from working class to upper middle class; neither the very wealthy nor the very poor were well represented in the study.

    In the second part of the experiment, the duo recruited 200 people in and around Ann Arbor, Michigan, to take a standard IQ test and read three letters to the Dear Abby advice column. One letter, for example, asked about choosing sides in an argument between mutual friends. Each participant then discussed with an interviewer how they thought the situations outlined in the letters would play out. A panel of judges scored their responses according to various measures of wise reasoning. In the example above, thinking about how an outsider might view the conflict would earn points toward wisdom, whereas relying only on one's own perspective would not. As with the first part of the experiment, those in lower social classes consistently had higher wise-reasoning scores than those in higher social classes, the researchers reported today in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B. IQ scores, however, weren't associated one way or another with wise reasoning.
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  3. #2

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    I remember years ago when I belonged to a church. I thought it was hypocritical that in one instance the church would discredit science but in another they would use science to prove a point.

    If we are against colleges and the teaching, why utilize any of it?

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Wisdom -- the ability to take the perspectives of others into account and aim for compromise
    I don't know where that definition came from - but the ones I've looked up don't much mention compromise.
    - the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment
    - the soundness of an action or decision with regard to the application of experience, knowledge, and good judgment.
    - the body of knowledge and principles that develops within a specified society or period

    So maybe the thread needs to be renamed "The Lower Your Social Class, the More You're Willing To Compromise"
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    I don't know where that definition came from - but the ones I've looked up don't much mention compromise.
    - the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment
    - the soundness of an action or decision with regard to the application of experience, knowledge, and good judgment.
    - the body of knowledge and principles that develops within a specified society or period

    So maybe the thread needs to be renamed "The Lower Your Social Class, the More You're Willing To Compromise"
    I don't know,,
    Perhaps those a bit wiser,, are less prone to chase "wealth".

    or more likely,, it is a flawed new study.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #5

    Default

    Good judgement probably comes from age and experience to some degree . Not coming from wealth means you had more opportunity to use problem solving skills and to learn to prioritize .

  7. #6

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    <<Quoting everyone's who posted, in order to ping them on the legwork I did into this>>
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    ...
    The OP quoted everything that was included in the Slahdot posting by a user account named BeauHD. I have no idea what BeauHD's motive was in posting it (I suspect its intent was as a screed against higher education). However, BeauHD selectively quoted the ScienceMag article ... and that's always a red flag for me.

    An additional tidbit - the ScienceMag article provides a link to the original research abstract page ... which, btw, is named:
    Social class and wise reasoning about interpersonal conflicts across regions, persons and situations
    ... so we're not talking about overall wisdom here, merely that wisdom associated with interpersonal relationships and conflict (which is where the "wisdom" definition came from - it's the name the researcher has given to what's being measured/evaluated).

    Here's some of the other quotes from the ScienceMag article:

    The findings make sense, Jayawickreme says, as people who grow up in a working-class environment have to rely on shared, communal resources more than people in the middle class, and therefore hone social techniques that smooth out conflicts with their peers. Those in the middle class, in contrast, tend to focus on education, which improves their IQ scores, but they don’t put nearly as much effort into conflict resolution skills, Grossmann says.

    If you want to foster wise reasoning in yourself, Grossmann advises, try to use third-person language when thinking about conflicts. Mentally address both yourself and your conflict partner by name, for example, as it forces you to see the situation as others would see it. And seek out situations where your own experiences and expectations aren’t in the spotlight, such as by attending a multicultural movie festival or by volunteering at a homeless shelter.

    Eventually, Grossman wants to expand his study of wisdom to people at the extremes of social class. “I would not be surprised if the result is even more pronounced in the extremely wealthy, but we don’t have the data to speak to it yet,” he says. “I would love to interview Donald Trump.”
    So it looks like they're saying that relying on shared, communal resources leads to greater "wisdom".

    And it also looks like they're saying to avoid putting your own personal experiences in the spotlight ... but if I'm not mistaken, making use of your own personal experiences is one of the hallmarks of the textbook definition of "wisdom" (from my earlier post).
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 12-23-2017 at 02:37 PM.
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  8. #7

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    Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
    Truth is a social construct.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    snip
    So low class people watch more Jerry Springer?



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  11. #9

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    so I'm a wise ass.

    deal with it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  12. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    or more likely, it is a flawed new study.
    I think you kinda have to roll your eyes at any social science research. By and large, it isn't much more than the study of correlation between different factors. The research is generally influenced by whatever bias the researcher is carrying into it. With human beings there are thousands of other correlation factors that could influence the outcome of the research (and which probably weren't taken into account) - so you can never really say that correlation translates to causation.
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  13. #11

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    A possible explanation is that the “lower classes” on average spend less time at the state funded schools that have been designed to make children stupid enough to accept their role (as slaves).

    In 1968, George Land researched the creativity of 1,600 children starting in age from three-to-five years. He re-tested the same children at 10 years and again at 15 years of age. The results were astounding.
    Test results 5 year olds - 98%
    Test results 10 year olds - 30%
    Test results 15 year olds - 12%

    The same test was given to 280,000 adults, who were only 2% “creative”.
    A good explanation could be, that our educational system was designed to train us to be good workers that follow instructions: https://www.creativityatwork.com/201...ity-be-taught/
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  14. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    A possible explanation is that the “lower classes” on average spend less time at the state funded schools that have been designed to make children stupid enough to accept their role (as slaves).
    In 1968, George Land researched the creativity of 1,600 children starting in age from three-to-five years. He re-tested the same children
    Middle and Upper Class students have more options available to them in terms of private schooling. I would think that it's the lower classes who would make the most use of the state funded schools, and programs like Head Start that Land was using as the basis of his study.
    In 1968, George Land conducted a research study to test the creativity of 1,600 children ranging in ages from three-to-five years old who were enrolled in a Head Start program.
    Students who qualify for the Head Start program come from the lower economic strata; and, because of that, they tend to face a lot of challenges: single-mother households, substance abuse, not the best of neighborhoods, and just poverty in general. That appears to be the baseline data for Land's study: children growing up in that type of environment. As I mentioned in a previous post, social science studies tend to be correlation studies - I'd be leery about any study on low-income children that didn't take their living environment into consideration.
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  15. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    The same test was given to 280,000 adults, who were only 2% “creative”.
    A good explanation could be, that our [public: I carried this over from earlier in the posting] educational system was designed to train us to be good workers that follow instructions:
    It's a reasonable hypothesis. To start the evaluation you'd need to check into it's falsifiability and take it from there. At a minimum I'd think you'd need to break out that 280,000 people into groups that were not creative and those that were. If the group that were creative had spent significant time in the public education system, then that would throw a kibosh on the hypothesis. You'd have to look at other factors.

    You'd have to consider other factors even if the creative group hadn't been through the public education system. Having the resources or contacts to avoid the public education system tends to bestow a lot of other advantages, in addition to the type of education - and any of those other advantages could account for the creativity gap.
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  16. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    A possible explanation is that the “lower classes” on average spend less time at the state funded schools that have been designed to make children stupid enough to accept their role (as slaves).

    In 1968, George Land researched the creativity of 1,600 children starting in age from three-to-five years. He re-tested the same children at 10 years and again at 15 years of age. The results were astounding.
    Test results 5 year olds - 98%
    Test results 10 year olds - 30%
    Test results 15 year olds - 12%

    The same test was given to 280,000 adults, who were only 2% “creative”.
    A good explanation could be, that our educational system was designed to train us to be good workers that follow instructions: https://www.creativityatwork.com/201...ity-be-taught/
    Deep down , I always knew all that time evading govt school , religious school , cops and game wardens would pay off .

  17. #15

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    So , if Danke spent more time with me and my great wisdom and less time with the other , less wise classes he could benefit greatly . Seems this study comes to the same conclusion as my own studies .

  18. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    I don't know where that definition came from - but the ones I've looked up don't much mention compromise.
    - the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment
    - the soundness of an action or decision with regard to the application of experience, knowledge, and good judgment.
    - the body of knowledge and principles that develops within a specified society or period

    So maybe the thread needs to be renamed "The Lower Your Social Class, the More You're Willing To Compromise"
    Yeah, I didnt want to say anything in the first post so everyone could tear this article apart. If anyone really wants some fun, read the comments on Slashdot itself.

    Perhaps poor people are more compassionate to others than rich, but I also would not call it "wiser".
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  20. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    It's a reasonable hypothesis. To start the evaluation you'd need to check into it's falsifiability and take it from there. At a minimum I'd think you'd need to break out that 280,000 people into groups that were not creative and those that were. If the group that were creative had spent significant time in the public education system, then that would throw a kibosh on the hypothesis. You'd have to look at other factors.
    If only I had the time to do some real research...

    It would be interesting to see a further breakdown of the numbers in the study.
    Then we could find evidence on what "killed" the creativity, and then maybe we could - over time - have some "creative" adults, that could make this world a better place!
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page2



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