President Trump’s tax plan keeps the socialist communist progressive income tax alive

[johnwk]

.


Well, now that the Republican tax reform is finalized on paper, we see that it not only keeps the socialist, communist, progressive income tax alive, but President Trump has already given thumbs up to this Washington Sewer Rat’s method of taxation which does nothing to remove the iron fist of our federal government from the necks of America’s hard working productive citizens and business owners; does nothing to end the American People from having to divulge the most personal information of their private lives; does nothing to end our despotic federal government from arbitrarily deciding what is and what is not taxable income; does nothing to end Washington Sewer Rats from picking winners and losers; does nothing to end our Washington Establishment’s use of taxation to intentionally seek out America’s most productive hard working citizens and business owners and transfer the bread they have produced to a dependent voting block who prostitutes its vote for free government cheese; does nothing to end taxation being used as a political weapon to silence, threaten and punish political foes while rewarding the friends of a tyrannical bloated federal government; Does nothing to end the never ending class-warfare tax game used by Washington Sewer Rats to divide and conquer the American People; and does nothing to encourage Congress to adopt sound fiscal policies and immediately extinguish year end deficits.

This is what President Trump, who asserts a love for a free market system and a distain for Washington’s Sewer Rats has given an approving nod to . . . a continuation of the socialist, communist, progressive income tax ___ the very vehicle used by Washington Sewer Rats since 1913 to stifle our Founders’ intended free market system and allows the iron fist of Washington’s sewer rats to clench and squeeze the necks of the American people.

And what did one of our forefathers say with regard to this notoriously evil system of direct taxation?

See Representative Williams during a debate on Direct Taxes January 18th, 1797:


"History, Mr. Williams said, informed them of the annihilation of nations by means of direct taxation. He referred gentlemen to the situation of the Roman Empire in its innocence, and asked them whether they had any direct taxes? No. Indirect taxes and taxes upon luxuries and spices from the Indies were their sources of revenue; but, as soon as they changed their system to direct taxation, it operated to their ruin; their children were sold as slaves, and the Empire fell from its splendor. Shall we then follow this system? He trusted not."


Let us not fool ourselves. Trump’s tax plan is nothing more than a manipulation of the existing and notoriously evil income tax which has proven to be a root cause of many of our nation’s sufferings. Real tax reform is found in the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment which begins with the following 32 words, which would restore our Constitutions’ original tax plan as our founders intended it to operate:

“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

But don’t expect our politically motivated media outlets, including Fox News, to ever discuss the merits, wisdom and brilliance of our Founders’ nonpartisan, make-America-Great tax plan. They are more interested in how to manipulate the existing communist, socialist progressive income tax to carry out their self-righteous personal views of justice, fairness and reasonableness instead of allowing the market place to play its intended role in raising a federal revenue, and preventing the devastating consequences of an unbridled direct tax in incomes.

JWK

“Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”, no longer in print.

[nikcers]

Since fiscal policy isn't changing i'm not too confident foreign policy will either. I think my biggest fear is that the next theme will be that the Russians hacked our economy... https://arstechnica.com/information-...hrough-russia/

[Madison320]

.
Well, now that the Republican tax reform is finalized on paper, we see that it not only keeps the socialist, communist, progressive income tax alive, but President Trump has already given thumbs up to this Washington Sewer Rat’s method of taxation which does nothing to remove the iron fist of our federal government from the necks of America’s hard working productive citizens and business owners;

About the only good thing is that they slightly lowered the top rate and the corporate rate. I think that's offset by the elimination of the ability to deduct state income tax from your federal tax. I think that's a horrible idea, the most productive citizens could potentially owe MORE than 100% of their income!

[johnwk]

About the only good thing is that they slightly lowered the top rate and the corporate rate. I think that's offset by the elimination of the ability to deduct state income tax from your federal tax. I think that's a horrible idea, the most productive citizens could potentially owe MORE than 100% of their income!

And why is it that we never get real tax reform?

[johnwk]

I saw Ivanka on Fox News this morning promoting the communist/socialist/progressive income tax plan cooked up by the Republican Leadership in the House and Senate.

It's amazing that a family who has pledged to drain the swamp, is now embracing the very tool, the communist inspired income tax, which gives swamp creatures the power to do their evil.


JWK

Are we really ok with 45 percent of our nation's population who pay no taxes on incomes being allowed to vote for representatives who spend federal revenue which the remaining 55 percent of our nation's hard working and productive population has contributed into our federal treasury via taxes on incomes when our Constitution requires Representatives and direct taxes Shall be apportioned among the Several States�?

[Madison320]

I saw Ivanka on Fox News this morning promoting the communist/socialist/progressive income tax plan cooked up by the Republican Leadership in the House and Senate.

It's amazing that a family who has pledged to drain the swamp, is now embracing the very tool, the communist inspired income tax, which gives swamp creatures the power to do their evil.


JWK

Are we really ok with 45 percent of our nation's population who pay no taxes on incomes being allowed to vote for representatives who spend federal revenue which the remaining 55 percent of our nation's hard working and productive population has contributed into our federal treasury via taxes on incomes when our Constitution requires Representatives and direct taxes Shall be apportioned among the Several States�?

Unfortunately the answer is yes, most people are OK with it, even here.

It's good to know that there's at least one other member on RPF that hates the progressive income tax. I've always felt that the progressive income tax is about the biggest injustice in most countries. It's also about the biggest cause of poverty. Marxist class warfare feeds on envy and is a powerful force. We should be embarrassed that we live in a country with a top rate of 39%!

[Madison320]

And why is it that we never get real tax reform?

Politicians don't want to lose the ability to buy votes.

[johnwk]

Politicians don't want to lose the ability to buy votes.

I think it has more to do with our media personalities who are delinquent in discussing our Founder's solution to tax reform. Have you ever heard one of our "conservative" media personalities ever discussing it, and in particular, the rule of apportionment as our founders applied it to direct taxation?

JWK

[Madison320]

I think it has more to do with our media personalities who are delinquent in discussing our Founder's solution to tax reform. Have you ever heard one of our "conservative" media personalities ever discussing it, and in particular, the rule of apportionment as our founders applied it to direct taxation?

JWK

I've never heard anyone talk about apportionment other than Peter Schiff. I'm not totally sure how apportionment works either. I always assumed it meant that the government has to ask each state for a lump sum and then the state collects it however it wants. That would definitely be a good thing.

The best solutions I've heard to prevent progressive taxation are the ones that only allow net taxpayers to vote.

[johnwk]

I've never heard anyone talk about apportionment other than Peter Schiff. I'm not totally sure how apportionment works either. I always assumed it meant that the government has to ask each state for a lump sum and then the state collects it however it wants. That would definitely be a good thing.

You basically have the concept correct.


Let us take a look at the wisdom and brilliance of our Founder's original tax plan which is proposed as follows.


The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment


“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as they intended it to operate! They would also end the failed experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling their labor!


"SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."


NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.


"SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."


NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish an annual deficit would be:


States’ population

---------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S FAIR SHARE

Total U.S. Population


The above formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to insure that those states who contribute the lion’s share of the tax are guaranteed a representation in Congress proportionately equal to their contribution, i.e., representation with a proportional financial obligation!


Note also that each State’s number or Representatives, under our Constitution is determined by the rule of apportionment:


State`s Pop.
------------------- X House size (435) = State`s No. of Representatives
U.S. Pop.


"SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."


NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.


"SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect no later than (?) years after the required number of States have ratified it.


JWK


“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

[dude58677]

Unfortunately when Congress is filled with lawyers who are part of the American Bar Association which loves the tax laws not much can be done. Donald Trump wants to get something passed so he has no choice but to go along with it. What he has done is cut regulations so it isn't that he isn't trying.

[johnwk]

This same kind of “tax reform” has happened a number of times during my life time, the last time being under President Reagan. When the Washington Sewer Rats realize the American People are getting sick and tired of the corrupt taxing “code” and how it is destroying America from within, our Congress critters back off with an illusion of “tax reform” which cleverly keeps the notoriously evil income tax alive and available to Congress to slowly re-create the same miseries which aroused the people into wanting “tax reform” in the first place.

How many freaken times must dim wits in America go through the same kabuki dance under tax reform to realize the problem is the freaken income tax which Congress uses to carry out its evil doings generation after generation?

When will the American people realize that repeating the same action over and over [tax reform which keeps the income tax alive] will never yield a different result?

The worm at the root of the rotten tree is in fact our nation’s love affair with the communist, socialist, progressive inspired incometax.

JWK


The unavoidable truth is, the social democrats’ plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by taxing the paychecks of millions of college graduates who worked their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.

[dude58677]

This same kind of “tax reform” has happened a number of times during my life time, the last time being under President Reagan. When the Washington Sewer Rats realize the American People are getting sick and tired of the corrupt taxing “code” and how it is destroying America from within, our Congress critters back off with an illusion of “tax reform” which cleverly keeps the notoriously evil income tax alive and available to Congress to slowly re-create the same miseries which aroused the people into wanting “tax reform” in the first place.

How many freaken times must dim wits in America go through the same kabuki dance under tax reform to realize the problem is the freaken income tax which Congress uses to carry out its evil doings generation after generation?

When will the American people realize that repeating the same action over and over [tax reform which keeps the income tax alive] will never yield a different result?

The worm at the root of the rotten tree is in fact our nation’s love affair with the communist, socialist, progressive inspired incometax.

JWK


The unavoidable truth is, the social democrats’ plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by taxing the paychecks of millions of college graduates who worked their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.

I know what you are saying but Congress is the problem. If Ron or Rand Paul were President, the exact thing would happen. Congress would ignore either of them, they do while he is in Congress so why wouldn't they when he is President? It sucks but unfortunately that's what we face. We have senators and congressman who were in office for decades and who are also tax lawyers writing the code for the ABA. The 2016 Presidential Election was a major milestone as a step away from this but it is by no means a cure all.

[Madison320]

The worm at the root of the rotten tree is in fact our nation’s love affair with the communist, socialist, progressive inspired income tax.

What bothers me is that it seems only a small percentage of RPFs actually give a crap about this. Everyone is up in arms over police brutality but not too many care about the property rights of the most wealthy. What they don't realize is that police brutality is the symptom, but the erosion of property rights is the cause. A flat tax would benefit the poor 1000 times more than whining about police brutality.


"Taxes, to be legitimate, must be imposed with the consent of the people on whom they will be levied. Progressive income taxes, by their very nature, violate this fundamental principle of legitimacy. They represent the very worst sort of “tyranny of the majority,” for they subject a small portion of citizens—those with the highest incomes—to taxes imposed by the “consent” of other citizens, the majority of voters, who do not pay taxes."


HAYEK: "But the argument based on the presumed justice of progression provides for no limitation, as has often been admitted by its supporters, before all incomes above a certain figure are confiscated and those below left untaxed. Unlike proportionality, progression provides no principle which tells us what the relative burden of different persons ought to be. It is no more than a rejection of proportionality in favor of a discrimination against the wealthy without any criterion for limiting the extent of this discrimination."


HAYEK: "It is the great merit of proportional taxation that it provides a rule which is likely to be agreed upon by those who will pay absolutely more and those who will pay absolutely less and which, once accepted, raises no problem of a separate rule applying only to a minority. Even if progressive taxation does not name the individuals to be taxed at a higher rate, it discriminates by introducing a distinction which alms at shifting the burden from those who determine the rates onto others. "


http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/in...f_the_majority

[Madison320]

I know what you are saying but Congress is the problem. If Ron or Rand Paul were President, the exact thing would happen. Congress would ignore either of them, they do while he is in Congress so why wouldn't they when he is President? It sucks but unfortunately that's what we face. We have senators and congressman who were in office for decades and who are also tax lawyers writing the code for the ABA. The 2016 Presidential Election was a major milestone as a step away from this but it is by no means a cure all.

I agree it would happen with Ron or Ran Paul but Trump isn't even in favor of free market reforms.

[Swordsmyth]

What bothers me is that it seems only a small percentage of RPFs actually give a crap about this. Everyone is up in arms over police brutality but not too many care about the property rights of the most wealthy. What they don't realize is that police brutality is the symptom, but the erosion of property rights is the cause. A flat tax would benefit the poor 1000 times more than whining about police brutality.

I think that most RPF members do care about this subject but the cop issues are more emotional and the income tax is boring, also there are many different opinions on on what should replace the income tax and discussions tend to get bogged down debating them so most people would rather just avoid the subject.

[Madison320]

I think that most RPF members do care about this subject but the cop issues are more emotional and the income tax is boring, also there are many different opinions on on what should replace the income tax and discussions tend to get bogged down debating them so most people would rather just avoid the subject.

That's probably true but there's also a good percentage who think the rich have all these secret loopholes so we need to tax them at a higher percentage.

[dude58677]

I agree it would happen with Ron or Ran Paul but Trump isn't even in favor of free market reforms.

Sure he is as he owns a business. He doesn't want too much overhead not hurt his employees.

[Madison320]

Sure he is as he owns a business. He doesn't want too much overhead not hurt his employees.

I agree he's in favor of some good stuff on smaller things, like lower regulations, but not the most critical things like cutting spending and normalizing rates.

[euphemia]

All-or-nothings drive me crazy. Appreciate the steps. They might lead somewhere good.

[enhanced_deficit]

On a side note, heard very strange conspiracy theory yesterday that Rubio wanted changes that would help produce more future Rubio voters and thus help him get elected to White House. Because many of his supporters were hispanic who had higher birth rates relatively.

[oyarde]

I think that most RPF members do care about this subject but the cop issues are more emotional and the income tax is boring, also there are many different opinions on on what should replace the income tax and discussions tend to get bogged down debating them so most people would rather just avoid the subject.

Considering about every crack pot has a tax plan and about 99 percent of them actually raise my tax . Yeah , it is boring. LOL

[dude58677]

I agree he's in favor of some good stuff on smaller things, like lower regulations, but not the most critical things like cutting spending and normalizing rates.

The spending and tax rates require an act of Congress.Even if he asked for a smaller defense budget it would be overridden for an even higher defense budget then what he proposed. The things he has control over he has done very well. In the long run he has opened the door for more nonpolitician to come forward and clean house. He is an asset to this country. He is Ross Perot but only in the White House and slightly better platform and he is far more entertaining. So enjoy these next 4-8 years.

[nikcers]

This is definitely a new direction in foreign policy following this weeks developments especially regarding Trumps speech which hinted that we should of never started doing trade with our competitiors (like with china).

Taxes

The draft US tax bill, if passed as written a week ago, would represent a break with global fair-taxation rules as applied to corporations, and represent a thinly disguised form of trade war.

WTO negotiation

the top US trade representative has launched a broadside at the trade body's 164 members, saying they seek litigation instead of negotiations to obtain advantages. Despite his sharp criticism of the 164-member trade body's inability to negotiate new agreements, Lighthizer managed to attract enough allies at the meeting to form smaller groups of countries to pursue new rules for open electronic commerce and to break down unreasonable trade barriers on food safety.

[Madison320]

All-or-nothings drive me crazy. Appreciate the steps. They might lead somewhere good.

Are you referring to me? I'm not like that at all. I'm all about small steps. The problem with Trump is that most of the small steps are leading towards bigger government.

[Madison320]

The spending and tax rates require an act of Congress.Even if he asked for a smaller defense budget it would be overridden for an even higher defense budget then what he proposed. The things he has control over he has done very well.

Like appointing dovish Jerome Powell to chair the federal reserve? After Trump campaigned on sound money?

If Trump wanted smaller government he would ask for it and he could veto any bill that increases spending and let congress override him. Instead he's asking for bigger government.

I had hope that Trump would be good but damn, the evidence is in. He's not good. Loot at how he flipped on the stock market, calling it a big fat ugly bubble as a candidate and now taking credit for the bubble as president.

[dude58677]

Like appointing dovish Jerome Powell to chair the federal reserve? After Trump campaigned on sound money?

If Trump wanted smaller government he would ask for it and he could veto any bill that increases spending and let congress override him. Instead he's asking for bigger government.

I had hope that Trump would be good but damn, the evidence is in. He's not good. Loot at how he flipped on the stock market, calling it a big fat ugly bubble as a candidate and now taking credit for the bubble as president.

Congress would override him with a bigger defense budget.

[johnwk]

This same kind of “tax reform” has happened a number of times during my life time, the last time being under President Reagan. When the Washington Sewer Rats realize the American People are getting sick and tired of the corrupt taxing “code” and how it is destroying America from within, our Congress critters back off with an illusion of “tax reform” which cleverly keeps the notoriously evil income tax alive and available to Congress to slowly re-create the same miseries which aroused the people into wanting “tax reform” in the first place.

How many freaken times must dim wits in America go through the same kabuki dance under tax reform to realize the problem is the freaken income tax which Congress uses to carry out its evil doings generation after generation?

When will the American people realize that repeating the same action over and over [tax reform which keeps the income tax alive] will never yield a different result?

The worm at the root of the rotten tree is in fact our nation’s love affair with the communist, socialist, progressive inspired incometax.

JWK


The unavoidable truth is, the social democrats’ plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by taxing the paychecks of millions of college graduates who worked their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.

I know what you are saying but Congress is the problem. If Ron or Rand Paul were President, the exact thing would happen. Congress would ignore either of them, they do while he is in Congress so why wouldn't they when he is President? It sucks but unfortunately that's what we face. We have senators and congressman who were in office for decades and who are also tax lawyers writing the code for the ABA. The 2016 Presidential Election was a major milestone as a step away from this but it is by no means a cure all.

People vote in our members of Congress. The people have more to do with our present circumstances than some are willing to admit. Unfortunately, and with regard to "tax reform", I have yet to find more than a handful of people who can discuss the issue on the same intellectual level as our founders discussed tax reform when framing our Constitution. And I have yet to find one radio or tv personality who is willing to expose their audience to the wisdom, merits and brilliance of our Founder's original tax plan.

JWK


“Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”, no longer in print.

[johnwk]

Originally Posted by johnwk
The worm at the root of the rotten tree is in fact our nation’s love affair with the communist, socialist, progressive inspired income tax.

What bothers me is that it seems only a small percentage of RPFs actually give a crap about this. Everyone is up in arms over police brutality but not too many care about the property rights of the most wealthy.

I think you are pointing out the vast majority of the people have no moral compass when it comes to passing laws which promote the "common defense and general welfare of the United States".


JWK

[euphemia]

Please stop painting with such a broad brush. Many of us care about both the immorality and the cost of the current system, but many of us can also appreciate a step in the right direction, even if it’s a tiny step. When Rand dropped out of the race, it was clear Trump was the only one who understood what a billion dollars was and how much it costs the taxpayer. Of course we would rather have Ron or Rand in control, but we don’t and it doesn’t help for people to keep being bitter, angry, and ungrateful.