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Thread: Rubio is a "no" on tax plan without increased welfare

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I do not look at saving a deduction the same as added welfare .
    Corporate welfare vs social welfare. Still welfare.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    In a free market, everybody is out to get as much as they can for themselves. If the company owners can keep the money and avoid giving it in the form of wages, they will. It isn't about "spreading the wealth around".
    An employer is not "spreading the wealth around" to just be a good egg. It's a practical transaction. You have to pay good money for good help. There comes a point when low wages results in low work. Also, an employee who is paid really low will seek another employer.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    In a free market, everybody is out to get as much as they can for themselves.

    Works the same in a very controlled government market too. That's just human nature.

    Progressives like you like to push the secular myth that bigger government somehow eliminates human nature.
    Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 12-15-2017 at 08:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    An employer is not "spreading the wealth around" to just be a good egg. It's a practical transaction. You have to pay good money for good help. There comes a point when low wages results in low work. Also, an employee who is paid really low will seek another employer.
    They will pay the least they have to in order to attract the labor they want to hire. If a job requires special skills which are in limited supply relative to the openings, wages will be higher. More and more jobs are capable of being done by more and more people as technology makes performing that job easier. That lowers the wages a company needs to pay out. Technology can even completely replace workers- lowering their wages to zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They will pay the least they have to in order to attract the labor they want to hire.
    Employees will take the most they can get to provide value to their employer.




    If a job requires special skills which are in limited supply relative to the openings, wages will be higher.
    Wages are also higher for harder workers, quality work, etc.


    More and more jobs are capable of being done by more and more people as technology makes performing that job easier.
    The economy is becoming more and more specialized, limiting even more what an individual can do.


    Technology can even completely replace workers- lowering their wages to zero.
    Technology also requires workers. Ideally, the workers shift to creating and working with the new technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  8. #36
    ZippyJuan, I think you have a defeatist approach. The employer-employee relationship is a two way street.

    Progressives like to portray the worker as a helpless pawn. The way an employee becomes on par with the employer is to become skilled, work hard, market himself, provide something other workers can't do, etc.

    Be the employee that the employer seeks and wants, not the other way around.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  9. #37
    Tax breaks are not subsidies or welfare.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    ZippyJuan, I think you have a defeatist approach. The employer-employee relationship is a two way street.

    Progressives like to portray the worker as a helpless pawn. The way an employee becomes on par with the employer is to become skilled, work hard, market himself, provide something other workers can't do, etc.

    Be the employee that the employer seeks and wants, not the other way around.
    i.e. Not a trained monkey. Not a commodity.

  11. #39
    Rubio's yes helps pass tax bill . . .

    Key features of the Republicans’ final tax bill

    -Health care

    The bill eliminates the individual mandate, a key part of the Affordable Care Act that penalizes Americans who don't maintain health coverage.
    The Congressional Budget Office estimates 13 million fewer people will have health insurance after a decade if the mandate is eliminated and premiums will rise by 10 percent on the individual market.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...x-bill-n830346

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Corporate welfare vs social welfare. Still welfare.
    Tax deductions are not any kind of welfare at all. They're somebody paying less taxes. The most they can possibly accomplish is paying zero taxes, which just means keeping your own money.

    Refundable tax credits are people getting paid back more than they pay in.



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  14. #41
    I keep seeing stories that this tax plan will result in a lot of low income and middle class people paying more in taxes though, on account of the loss of their deductions.

    Rubio's approach is the wrong one. But they still should have made bigger cuts at the low end to offset the losses of deductions.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I keep seeing stories that this tax plan will result in a lot of low income and middle class people paying more in taxes though, on account of the loss of their deductions.

    Rubio's approach is the wrong one. But they still should have made bigger cuts at the low end to offset the losses of deductions.
    Zero income tax up to $300,000 per year might be good. That will take care of the poor and middle class.

    No individual income tax rate should be more than the corporate tax rate.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I keep seeing stories that this tax plan will result in a lot of low income and middle class people paying more in taxes though, on account of the loss of their deductions.

    But they still should have made bigger cuts at the low end to offset the losses of deductions.
    WaPo said that 85% of people in all quintiles will see lower taxes. They increase the personal exemption to offset the loss of deductions.

    Here's a calculator: http://taxplancalculator.com/calc

    Important changes:
    -- medical deduction NOT ended
    -- student loan deduction NOT ended
    -- tuition waivers NOT ended
    -- mortgages capped at $750k for
    deduction; current homeowners
    grandfathered in
    -- child credit made more refundable
    -- rates lowered (see details to left)
    -- state/local deductions now allowed up
    to 10k (property, income, or sales)
    Other notes:
    These do not change from current law:
    -- social security earnings not changed
    -- business owner expensing not changed
    -- EITC not changed
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Rubio's tax credit and Rand's interest deduction are not remotely similar. And I am pretty sure you know that. I don't agree with it just like I don't favor being able to deduct mortgage interest. I favor a no deductions and a flat tax. But would you say allowing mortgage interest to be tax deductible is welfare? It is a one for one analogy.

    I mean Rothbard and that crew are pretty big on these kinds of deductions. I don't even view it as unprincipled.
    Agree. Once you start playing the deduction game, it will be corrupted. It creates incentives and decentives, usually with the goal of economic or social engineering. It always leads to cronyism and favoritism.

    It also highlights an essential difference between corporate taxes vs. individual taxes. Even if they were the same rate, a business gets write-offs and deductions that an individual will never get.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Zero income tax up to $300,000 per year might be good. That will take care of the poor and middle class.

    No individual income tax rate should be more than the corporate tax rate.
    $300,000 a year puts you in the top three percent. http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/i...ank/index.html
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    In a free market, everybody is out to get as much as they can for themselves. If the company owners can keep the money and avoid giving it in the form of wages, they will. It isn't about "spreading the wealth around".
    I remember when Ender said, many times, that Zippy is not left wing.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Zero income tax up to $300,000 per year might be good. That will take care of the poor and middle class.
    Sarcasm?

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    $300,000 a year puts you in the top three percent. http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/i...ank/index.html
    So that would protect the middle class.

    Too high? Where would you cut it off to properly redistribute the wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Sarcasm?
    Well, if we need to raise it so that it only taxes the top 1%, I'm fine with that. Original intent and all...
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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