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Thread: Net Neutrality Repealed

  1. #1

    Net Neutrality Repealed

    F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/1...peal-vote.html
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  3. #2
    YES!
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Ouch, take that Doug Jones supporters, still happy about that Roy Moore defeat??

    Also, a shout-out to all the social media companies that pushed so hard to keep net neutrality while banning content from people on the right from your platform... $#@! YOU
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Root View Post
    MAGA
    Slowly but surely.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  7. #6
    The left really worked themselves up into a hysterical lather over this.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The left really worked themselves up into a hysterical lather over this.
    Yes because the left love to censor their enemies. Now it makes it harder for them to put out false narratives.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  9. #8
    Only thing to do now is to wait and see who benefits the most. Keep in mind the very term "Net Neutrality" is a Label that almost as always has nothing to do with what the Label implies. The Patriot Act had NOTHING to do with Patriotism. Affordable Care Act (health) has nothing to do with making healthcare either affordable or healthy. CISPA (Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act) has nothing to do with Protection. This is applied to damn near EVERY phrase both the MSM and govt throw at us, because it heavily impacts the Perception that the majority of people have of whatever is thrown their way.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  11. #9
    Favorite comment I've found so far online-

    guise hurry up and go to battleforthenet.com and use the amazon™ contact-my-reps program to bombard them with support for net neutrality! THEY WANT TO TAKE OUR NET AWAY; NOT ON OUR WATCH, REDDIT!!! YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO PAY TO POST AND READ COMMENTS, DO YOU?! OR TO EMAIL YOUR NAN?! THEN DO IT!!!

    free and open internet- now and forever!™
    email 5 representatives and get ONE MONTH FREE of AMAZON® PRIME!™
    this offer has expired.

  12. #10

    Google and Amazon are punishing their own customers in a bitter feud

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/5/1...customers-feud

    Dec 5, 2017

    Amazon has just responded to Google’s decision to remove YouTube from all Fire TV products and the Echo Show. “Google is setting a disappointing precedent by selectively blocking customer access to an open website,” a spokesperson told The Verge by email. “We hope to resolve this with Google as soon as possible.” YouTube is being pulled from the Show effective immediately, and Fire TV owners will lose out on the popular, essential video streaming app on January 1st.

    Google says it’s taking this extreme step because of Amazon’s recent delisting of new Nest products (like Nest Secure and the E Thermostat) and the company’s long-running refusal to sell Chromecast or support Google Cast in any capacity.

    But regardless of the public stance each company takes over the next few days, it’s their mutual customers who are unfairly getting jerked around. YouTube is a cornerstone of any living room streaming device, and for Google to suddenly decide to strip it from millions of existing Fire TV owners — assuming no agreement is reached by January 1st — is shameful. YouTube is video on the internet. Period. It’s also home to beloved creators, and Google’s decision will soon rob them of viewers.

    ...



  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Only thing to do now is to wait and see who benefits the most. Keep in mind the very term "Net Neutrality" is a Label that almost as always has nothing to do with what the Label implies. The Patriot Act had NOTHING to do with Patriotism. Affordable Care Act (health) has nothing to do with making healthcare either affordable or healthy. CISPA (Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act) has nothing to do with Protection. This is applied to damn near EVERY phrase both the MSM and govt throw at us, because it heavily impacts the Perception that the majority of people have of whatever is thrown their way.
    yup, doublespeak in action.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  14. #12
    Comcast stock up 1.4%

  15. #13
    This kind of stuff is why you can't say the parties are the same. Republicans are better. Not perfect. Better.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    This is applied to damn near EVERY phrase both the MSM and govt throw at us, because it heavily impacts the Perception that the majority of people have of whatever is thrown their way.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Only thing to do now is to wait and see who benefits the most. Keep in mind the very term "Net Neutrality" is a Label that almost as always has nothing to do with what the Label implies. The Patriot Act had NOTHING to do with Patriotism. Affordable Care Act (health) has nothing to do with making healthcare either affordable or healthy. CISPA (Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act) has nothing to do with Protection. This is applied to damn near EVERY phrase both the MSM and govt throw at us, because it heavily impacts the Perception that the majority of people have of whatever is thrown their way.
    I think there were companies who stood to benefit either way. I have very little faith that a lawyer who worked for Verizon pushed this repeal purely out of love for free markets.

    Now if he can just push for FCC repeals that actually bring competition into the broadband marketplace, we'll be all set. I've got a feeling Ajit Pai is gonna stop short of that, though.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 12-14-2017 at 04:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I think there were companies who stood to benefit either way. I have very little faith that a lawyer who worked for Verizon pushed this repeal purely out of love for free markets.

    Now if he can just push for FCC repeals that actually bring competition back into the broadband marketplace, we'll be all set. I've got a feeling Ajit Pai is gonna stop short of that, though.
    I don't see how there won't be more competition unless there is a 10th amendment challenge. If They get democrats in favor of states rights that won't be so bad anyways either.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I don't see how there won't be more competition unless there is a 10th amendment challenge. If They get democrats in favor of states rights that won't be so bad anyways either.
    Yes, well, I've had one broadband ISP provider in my area for the last decade. Probably will have one cable ISP provider for the next decade. I suppose I'm fortunate that Cox Communications, at least in my experience, hasn't treated their customers like utter sh*t compared to Comcast or Time Warner. My father lived in Jacksonville FL and I've heard horror stories of Comcast. But, there are no competitors in my area. Net Neutrality or it's repeal didn't change that.

    I might see some difference in how they choose to bill me. But one company in an area changing its billing strategies is not the same as having competition. That's probably been the weakest argument from the pro-repeal side since day one.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 12-14-2017 at 05:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Yes, well, I've had one broadband ISP provider in my area for the last decade. Probably will have one cable ISP provider for the next decade. I suppose I'm fortunate that Cox Communications, at least in my experience, hasn't treated their customers like utter sh*t compared to Comcast or Time Warner. My father lived in Jacksonville FL and I've heard horror stories of Comcast. But, there are no competitors in my area. Net Neutrality or it's repeal didn't change that.

    I might see some difference in how they choose to bill me. But one company in an area changing its billing strategies is not the same as having competition. That's probably been the weakest argument from the pro-repeal side since day one.
    Att just started testing high-speed internet over power lines again, specifically to reach rural areas that have existing power lines. I don't know how well it works over long distance but inside a house, it works great. Fast and reliable.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Yes, well, I've had one broadband ISP provider in my area for the last decade. Probably will have one cable ISP provider for the next decade. I suppose I'm fortunate that Cox Communications, at least in my experience, hasn't treated their customers like utter sh*t compared to Comcast or Time Warner. My father lived in Jacksonville FL and I've heard horror stories of Comcast. But, there are no competitors in my area. Net Neutrality or it's repeal didn't change that.

    I might see some difference in how they choose to bill me. But one company in an area changing its billing strategies is not the same as having competition. That's probably been the weakest argument from the pro-repeal side since day one.
    The net neutrality bill is deregulation essentially. The text that stands out to me the most is


    The commission intends to block any local laws or regulations that “effectively impose rules or requirements that we have repealed or decided to refrain from imposing in this order or that would impose more stringent requirements for any aspect of broadband service that we address in this order.”



    So to sum up: states can’t pass anything covered in the 2015 net neutrality order, they can’t pass anything the FCC mentioned but didn’t pass in this new order, and they can’t pass anything that would at all make life more difficult for ISPs
    To me this means that the government can't regulate internet access. To me this means that the internet will be able to monetize information delivery. To me this means that your ISP will have more of an incentive to deliver every bit to you because you are paying for the bit, they are not monetizing their network to serve the least amount of data because that lowers the costs the most.

    It's kind of like right now the internet is like fractional reserve banking, and they have an incentive to monetize their network so that if everyone tried to use all of their data at once they wouldn't have enough. To me it means that ISPS have an incentive to have a network so that if everyone tried to use all of their data at once they can make money off of every bit delivered, to monetize the data delivery.

  23. #20
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    These boobs will sell their last rights away for mere scraps. The millennials as a whole have such a dangerous, short term outlook on things. What is the final recourse when the government finally consolidates all control of the internet and then the aforementioned corporations successfully lobby for that bundled control? Then what geniuses?

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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    The net neutrality bill is deregulation essentially. The text that stands out to me the most is




    To me this means that the government can't regulate internet access. To me this means that the internet will be able to monetize information delivery. To me this means that your ISP will have more of an incentive to deliver every bit to you because you are paying for the bit, they are not monetizing their network to serve the least amount of data because that lowers the costs the most.

    It's kind of like right now the internet is like fractional reserve banking, and they have an incentive to monetize their network so that if everyone tried to use all of their data at once they wouldn't have enough. To me it means that ISPS have an incentive to have a network so that if everyone tried to use all of their data at once they can make money off of every bit delivered, to monetize the data delivery.
    The main driver of incentives and innovation is competition. Without that, it doesn't really matter how they choose to package and sell their data plans, or 'monetize' if you prefer the term.

    I'm a gamer, so I'll use Electronic Arts as a publisher for an example. EA started getting sh*tty when they began publishing half-finished games that fell short of buyer expectations and then releasing downloadable content to squeeze some extra bucks from their customers in order to enjoy the full experience. Monetize? You bet! They monetized the ever loving f'k out of their products.

    Now, there's nothing illegal about doing that, but it's generally not good business practice and EA's competitors caught on. Over the years, independent developers have risen up and challenged the major developers like EA, and that is going to be the only thing, if anything, that keeps EA honest. Bona-fide competition. Otherwise EA will fall from the top, deservedly so. EA's days are numbered when someone can design a game from their home and submit it to the Steam community for a greenlight. Relatively speaking, it's one of the easiest markets to enter, especially with crowdfunding where gamers can get involved early in game development and suggest things they would like to see implemented into the games before they are finished and released. The result, in most cases, is a game that is almost perfectly catered to the wishes of the consumer, rather than what some lead designer in front of an isolated office high-rise drawing-board merely *thinks* will sell really well. In the gaming world, it seems the free market is still alive and well.

    However, such open competition simply does not exist throughout the ISP world. Barriers to entry have made it extremely cost-prohibitive for upstart ISPs to build into an area where an incumbent ISP is already established. It is precisely these companies who have used the bully-stick of governments over the years to fortify their monopolies, and then complained when government tried to regulate them. Boo hoo I say.

    I'm sorry but, you'll never see me waving a banner of capitalist freedom for their sake. When they stop behaving like corporatists, I'll blow the whistle on things like Net Neutrality.

    Here is a map of East and West Berlin. Oh, wait—sorry, it's the Los Angeles broadband coverage areas:



    Let's assume the argument:

    Charter serves its area (and only its area) and chooses to enact data package plans.

    Time Warner Cable serves its area (and only its area) and chooses to enact data package plans.

    Because their service areas do not overlap, they are not actually in competition with each other. If they DID overlap, and one came out with a better data plan than the other which customers supported, then you guys would have a point. The only thing that is going to change anything for the consumer is the FCC coming out and removing barriers that prevent these companies from moving into each other's areas and competing.

    I will, with almost absolute certainty, say here and now, that Ajit Pai won't do that. I would even wager that he has received kickbacks from both Charter and Time Warner cable to keep things status quo.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 12-14-2017 at 06:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

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    Keep the $#@!ing camel's nose out of the tent. You know the drill.




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  29. #25
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    Patriot Act, Affordable Care Act, Net Neutrality....I'm starting to see a trend here.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I will, with almost absolute certainty, say here and now, that Ajit Pai won't do that. I would even wager that he has received kickbacks from both Charter and Time Warner cable to keep things status quo.
    I would say that unless the deregulation is fake then things can only get better. With regulation there is no reason to build competing last mile networks, but if we get true deregulation then there will be an internet revolution.

  31. #27
    Omg my liberal friends are ballistic.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    The main driver of incentives and innovation is competition. Without that, it doesn't really matter how they choose to package and sell their data plans, or 'monetize' if you prefer the term.

    I'm a gamer, so
    Maximum download speeds aren't something that you are really concerned about. You would probably prefer an internet plan that provides you with the lowest possible latency possible.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Maximum download speeds aren't something that you are really concerned about. You would probably prefer an internet plan that provides you with the lowest possible latency possible.
    And without net neutrality, they could sell him a gamer option that could prioritize game-specific traffic.

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