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Thread: Where is your bank account# stored in Bitcoin?

  1. #1

    Default Where is your bank account# stored in Bitcoin?

    I don't understand how Bitcoin is anonymous. When you buy or sell a Bitcoin, isn't your bank account linked to your wallet?



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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't understand how Bitcoin is anonymous. When you buy or sell a Bitcoin, isn't your bank account linked to your wallet?
    lol no, why would you think that?

    I mean, Coinbase might have your personal info and you might have a wallet with them, but that is certainly not a requirement to own bitcoin..

    All you have to do is move that btc out of your coinbase wallet to another wallet that is anonymous.. or mine bitcoin, or get it some other way.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    lol no, why would you think that?

    I mean, Coinbase might have your personal info and you might have a wallet with them, but that is certainly not a requirement to own bitcoin..

    All you have to do is move that btc out of your coinbase wallet to another wallet that is anonymous.
    US exchanges are subject to KYC regulations so when you sign-up they have all your personal information and that is linked to a bank account for withdrawal.

    Identities are not recorded in the Bitcoin blockchain itself, but every confirmed bitcoin transaction is permanently recorded and visible to everyone in the Blockchain. Since all transactions are publicly broadcast in the Bitcoin blockchain, the public is able to see the flow of bitcoins from one address to another, albeit without any information that explicitly links those addresses to anyone in particular. Through exchanges that require the disclosure of personal identities, these users bitcoin holdings and activity become linked to their identities.

    Also "Transaction Graph Analysis" as a possible means to reveal identities in addition to linking the origin of transactions by looking for the IP address of the Bitcoin full node that first broadcast the transaction.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    lol no, why would you think that?

    I mean, Coinbase might have your personal info and you might have a wallet with them, but that is certainly not a requirement to own bitcoin..

    All you have to do is move that btc out of your coinbase wallet to another wallet that is anonymous.. or mine bitcoin, or get it some other way.
    But I thought all the transactions in the blockchain were public? So if you know that I have 100 bitcoins in Wallet "X", won't you also know that I've transferred 100 bitcoins to Wallet "Y"?

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    But I thought all the transactions in the blockchain were public? So if you know that I have 100 bitcoins in Wallet "X", won't you also know that I've transferred 100 bitcoins to Wallet "Y"?
    Ya, but how do I know who wallet Y even belongs to?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, but how do I know who wallet Y even belongs to?
    Ahh, OK I think I get it now. You wouldn't know if that was a transfer to the same owner or some new guy. So it's a 2 step process to keep it anonymous.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Ahh, OK I think I get it now. You wouldn't know if that was a transfer to the same owner or some new guy. So it's a 2 step process to keep it anonymous.
    No, you can create an anonymous wallet and mine or transfer bitcoin that you obtain one way or another to it. That isn't two steps.

    If you want to signup for certain exchanges and get bitcoin that way, then you may have a wallet that isn't totally anonymous.. but you could transfer it to other wallets which are.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, you can create an anonymous wallet and mine or transfer bitcoin that you obtain one way or another to it. That isn't two steps.
    How would you transfer (not mine it) a bitcoin into an anonymous wallet without linking it somehow to a method of payment?



    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post

    If you want to signup for certain exchanges and get bitcoin that way, then you may have a wallet that isn't totally anonymous.. but you could transfer it to other wallets which are.
    That the 2 steps I was referring to.
    Last edited by Madison320; 12-13-2017 at 02:48 PM.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, you can create an anonymous wallet and mine or transfer bitcoin that you obtain one way or another to it. That isn't two steps.

    If you want to signup for certain exchanges and get bitcoin that way, then you may have a wallet that isn't totally anonymous.. but you could transfer it to other wallets which are.
    And as soon as you spend it from those other wallets to anywhere where they have your info (shipping, ip, etc), that anonymity is lost again.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And as soon as you spend it from those other wallets to anywhere where they have your info (shipping, ip, etc), that anonymity is lost again.

    They don't just have that information, they have to go get that information from the shipper..

    Although some people got taken out in silk road and its several incarnations, a lot of people were able to remain anonymous.

    The question by the OP is where does bitcoin store this information, and it doesn't. This has nothing to do with bitcoin. This has to do with the federal government watching over private businesses and their customers.

    They could do the same thing with a cash paying customer, they can obtain or take their own video camera footage of you walking into the store and demand the store turn over their transactions during that time and see what you bought. That isn't cash's fault.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    They don't just have that information, they have to go get that information from the shipper.. .

    The question by the OP is where does bitcoin store this information, and it doesn't. This has nothing to do with bitcoin. This has to do with the federal government watching over private businesses and their customers.

    .
    Just like they would have to go to coinbase or wherever to get your bank acct info. I never said it was stored on the blockchain, you were way passed the scope of the op question before I replied. bitcoin has its advantages, but anonymity really isn't one.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    bitcoin has its advantages, but anonymity really isn't one.
    Compared to what? Monero? Gold? Cash?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    bitcoin has its advantages, but anonymity really isn't one.
    Bitcoin is not anonymous "out of the box". However, Bitcoin is compatible with strong anonymity. Here are a few measures that can be applied to use Bitcoin with strong anonymity:

    - Acquire bitcoins directly from a private party in exchange for cash, gold or another anonymous asset.

    - Sweep your Bitcoins from a non-anonymous wallet (the wallet that was used to receive coins from an exchange, for example) into another wallet. If you take steps to preserve your physical anonymity (concealing your IP address, for example), no one can prove that the bitcoins in the sweep wallet belong to you. This will not protect you from the proverbial $5 wrench attack and it won't prevent the IRS from just seizing all your other assets on the presumption of guilt. But then, you are liable to both of these attacks even in the case that you have actually transmitted the bitcoins to someone else - user beware!

    - Use a coin mixing service. Coin mixing services can provide a measure of anonymity/deniability. This is a similar concept to money laundering but it's different in two ways. First, the mixing is publicly visible (the government does not even need to get a warrant to track it) and, second, bitcoins can be mixed much more thoroughly at lower cost than bank-based ML methods. So, this is a great service but you have to understand the drawbacks. Because the blockchain is publicly visible, using a coin mixing service is like walking into a business on Main Street with the sign out front: "Money Laundering Services, Here". If the FBI already knows how much cash you have in your satchel (perhaps they've seized your computer and can see your wallet addresses, even if they cannot access the coins in them), no matter how well they are mixed, they will be able to deduce how much you should be getting on the output and demand that you fork it over (perhaps in exchange for leniency).

    - Broadcast your Bitcoin transactions through a web portal (e.g. here), accessed through Tor.

    - Use shapeshift or an XCAT (cross-chain atomic transfer) to swap your Bitcoins for Zcash, then shield your Zcash - this makes your coins anonymous and any future transactions you perform on the Zcash network are unconditionally anonymous (modulo physical anonymity, of course).

    - Acquire bitcoins by buying an already-loaded opendime. If you are not the first owner of the opendime, your acquisition of the bitcoins stored in the device does not require anything to be broadcast to the blockchain - you own the bitcoins by sheer dint of possessing the opendime.

    - Use Lightning Network. When Lightning becomes widely available, it will be anonymous by default. You only need to open a payment channel with a Lightning hub. After this, any transactions that occur between you and other members of the Lightning Network are protected by TLS (transport-layer security) and are anonymous to everyone except you, the party you are transacting with, and the Lightning hub. Lightning Network has even implemented a version of onion-routing to provide Tor-style protection of anonymity within a Lightning Network.

    Closing Note: The Eye-of-Sauron NWO police state that is trying to take over the globe would have you believe that anonymity is a thing of the past. In reality, mathematics is on the side of anonymity. Anonymity in the digital future is going to look a lot different than traditional methods of anonymity. Before long, you will not be able to conceal your presence in any particular location and, especially in urban areas, you will be best to treat your present location as though it were being broadcast to the rest of the world. But this doesn't change the semantics of anonymity because you and I don't need to be in the same location in order to transact with each other. In short, the very same technology that is destroying the old-fashioned sense of anonymity also opens the doors to a new and arguably stronger form of anonymity.

    Don't give in to FUD.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 12-13-2017 at 06:31 PM.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Compared to what? Monero? Gold? Cash?
    I wasn't making any comparisons, but addressing the lack of a feature that is often used to promote it.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I wasn't making any comparisons, but addressing the lack of a feature that is often used to promote it.
    Bitcoin itself is anonymous, it tracks no personal info. Life tracks some things which can be tied to the ledger, because life.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #16

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    Unless you take special steps to protect your privacy, anybody that you send Bitcoin to can use blockchain analysis to get a good idea of how much Bitcoin you have in your wallet, and can track what other Bitcoin addresses you send to in the future or have already sent to in the past. If you've seen the "wallet guesttimator" feature on certain block explorers and looked up your own wallet you will see that they are scarily accurate.

    Thats why in my opinion it is better to use a currency that has privacy features available like Dash, Monero, Zcash. The privacy features aren't just for criminals money laundering, it is also to keep the rest of your financial history private from anyone you do business with.
    Last edited by Crashland; 12-14-2017 at 12:29 PM.






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