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Thread: Debt Ceiling: Trump Wants Clean Bill With $700 Billion For DoD

  1. #1

    Debt Ceiling: Trump Wants Clean Bill With $700 Billion For DoD

    http://fox6now.com/2017/12/12/presid...dget-into-law/

    WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump on Tuesday signed into law a sweeping defense policy bill that authorizes a $700 billion budget for the military, including additional spending on missile defense programs to counter North Korea’s growing nuclear weapons threat.

    But there’s a catch. The $700 billion budget won’t become reality until lawmakers agree to roll back a 2011 law that set strict limits on federal spending, including by the Defense Department — and they haven’t yet.

    The law caps 2018 defense spending at $549 billion.

    Before he signed the bill at the White House, President Trump called on Congress to “finish the job” and eliminate the cap on defense spending.

    “I think it’s going to happen,” said the president, joined by Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Joseph Dunford and other senior military leaders. “We need our military. It’s got to be perfecto.”

    He urged Democrats in Congress to quit threatening to shut down the government and “send clean funding and a clean funding bill to my desk that fully funds our great military. Protecting our country should always be a bipartisan issue, just like today’s legislation.”

    Temporary government funding is set to run out on Dec. 22, the deadline for lawmakers to send the White House a broader government funding bill or risk a partial government shutdown.



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  3. #2
    Are they sure none of it will be used for the Department of Aggression.

  4. #3
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-s...t-live-stream/

    Trump signs National Defense Authorization Act

    President Trump signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) Tuesday afternoon at the White House, approving spending levels for U.S. military efforts. The House and the Senate passed the $700 billion bill for fiscal year 2018 in mid-November.

    "This legislation represents a momentous step toward rebuilding our military and securing the future for our children," Mr. Trump said. "I applaud the work of the members of both parties who came together to pass the National Defense Authorization Act, which passed with overwhelming bipartisan support— something that sounds very nice to my ears."

    The legislation establishes spending levels and policies for the Department of Defense -- around $626 billion for the base budget. It sets spending levels for overseas contingency operations -- which includes funding for the fight against ISIS -- at about $66 billion. The defense budget calls for an increase in the size of the armed forces and the salary of existing members, improvements in missile defense capabilities and upgrades to combat vehicles among other military initiatives. However, this NDAA exceeds the spending caps set by the 2011 Budget Control Act to keep deficits under control, and lawmakers could have a fight ahead about how to fund the bill, which exceeds the 2018 budget cap of $549 billion by $150 billion.

    Though this is not actually a spending bill.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-12-2017 at 05:03 PM.

  5. #4
    Paul says he won't vote for spending bill that adds to deficit

    By Mallory Shelbourne - 12/12/17
    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Tuesday that he will not vote for an end-of-year spending bill that adds to the deficit.
    “I cannot in good conscience vote to add more to the already massive $20 trillion debt. I promised Kentucky to vote against reckless, deficit spending and I will do just that,” Paul said in a tweet accompanied by a video of him speaking about the subject.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...dds-to-deficit

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Paul says he won't vote for spending bill that adds to deficit

    By Mallory Shelbourne - 12/12/17
    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Tuesday that he will not vote for an end-of-year spending bill that adds to the deficit.
    “I cannot in good conscience vote to add more to the already massive $20 trillion debt. I promised Kentucky to vote against reckless, deficit spending and I will do just that,” Paul said in a tweet accompanied by a video of him speaking about the subject.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...dds-to-deficit

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Paul says he won't vote for spending bill that adds to deficit

    By Mallory Shelbourne - 12/12/17
    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Tuesday that he will not vote for an end-of-year spending bill that adds to the deficit.
    “I cannot in good conscience vote to add more to the already massive $20 trillion debt. I promised Kentucky to vote against reckless, deficit spending and I will do just that,” Paul said in a tweet accompanied by a video of him speaking about the subject.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...dds-to-deficit
    His vote for the tax cut bill adds to the $20 trillion debt- an estimated $1.5 trillion more than without the proposed cuts.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    His vote for the tax cut bill adds to the $20 trillion debt- an estimated $1.5 trillion more than without the proposed cuts.
    As we're discussing currently in another thread Zip, it's the spending which really matters, not whether the spent money was taxed or borrowed.

    Reasonable people can disagree on whether the incentive benefits of a tax cut outweigh the additional interest costs.

    No reasonable person could support increased (or, while we're at it, oppose decreased) spending.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    As we're discussing currently in another thread Zip, it's the spending which really matters, not whether the spent money was taxed or borrowed.

    Reasonable people can disagree on whether the incentive benefits of a tax cut outweigh the additional interest costs.

    No reasonable person could support increased (or, while we're at it, oppose decreased) spending.
    If it isn't the borrowing/ debt, why does total spending matter? The spending creates jobs. If it isn't financed with taxes, then it is free productivity added to the economy- more jobs, higher wages.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If it isn't the borrowing/ debt, why does total spending matter? The spending creates jobs. If it isn't financed with taxes, then it is free productivity added to the economy- more jobs, higher wages.


    At any given time, there is a finite quantity of resources (land, labor, capital). When the government spends money, it is consuming resources which would otherwise have been used in the private sector. The private sector uses resources far more productively than the government. Imagine taking money out of a savings account earning 5% and putting it in a savings account earning 0.5% (or -0.5%); that is like the state taking resources out of the private sector and using it for its own purposes, with the principal being the stock of existing resources, and the interest being economic growth.

    Economics in One Lesson, Henry Hazlitt

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    At any given time, there is a finite quantity of resources (land, labor, capital). When the government spends money, it is consuming resources which would otherwise have been used in the private sector. The private sector uses resources far more productively than the government. Imagine taking money out of a savings account earning 5% and putting it in a savings account earning 0.5% (or -0.5%); that is like the state taking resources out of the private sector and using it for its own purposes, with the principal being the stock of existing resources, and the interest being economic growth.

    Economics in One Lesson, Henry Hazlitt
    If they aren't taking taxes out but borrowing they are having a very limited impact on what would otherwise be used in the overall economy- they are competing for money available for loans. When they finance spending with taxes, they directly take money which could have been spent on goods and services creating more jobs.

  13. #11

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If they aren't taking taxes out but borrowing they are having a very limited impact on what would otherwise be used in the overall economy
    Whether taxing or borrowing the quantity of resources being extracted from the private sector is exactly the same.

    Whether it is a taxpayer who loses $10,000 to taxes, or a creditor who gives up $10,000 to buy a government bond, that it $10,000 worth of real resources (land, labor, capital) extracted from the private sector.

    they are competing for money available for loans. When they finance spending with taxes, they directly take money which could have been spent on goods and services creating more jobs.
    The underlined applies just the same to borrowing (also inflating by the central bank, incidentally).

  15. #13
    Borrowing comes from money which would have otherwise gone to investments- other bonds, stocks.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Borrowing comes from money which would have otherwise gone to investments- other bonds, stocks.
    When Bob buys a $1000 bond from Company, Company becomes able to buy $1000 in additional real resources (land, labor, capital).

    If Bob instead buys a $1000 treasury bond, that $1000 worth of real resources is bought by the state.

    Company will use the real resources more productively than the state: e.g. Company might make shoes, while the state makes bombs.

    There's no free lunch Zippy; if the state is building houses, that's lumber, nails, labor, etc not being used for something else.

    That's true regardless of whether the money to buy the lumber, nails, and labor were taxed or borrowed.

  17. #15
    @Zippyjuan

    Will you do me a personal favor?

    EDIT:

    Evidently not..

    But, should you decide to do me a solid, it's this.

    Read Economics in One Lesson.

    It's short, won't take much of your time.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 12-12-2017 at 06:05 PM.

  18. #16
    Before Zippy derailed this thread with more Keynesian BS, it was about Trump signing $700B NDAA...

    But yeah, let's talk about Sessions' replacement.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Before Zippy derailed this thread with more Keynesian BS, it was about Trump signing $700B NDAA...

    But yeah, let's talk about Sessions' replacement.
    Who cares, Capt?

    All of us could fit in a small car.

  21. #18
    As for that small car...

    Now, the tax bill's going to pass.

    ..which is fine, but unimportant.

    And now the focus should be on what actually matters, spending.

  22. #19
    A longstanding Washington tradition is watching Republicans and Democrats in Congress find creative ways to vote avoid voting to increase the ceiling on federal debt.
    http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3...ly-constructed

    ..Anyone paying any attention to this?

    No, course not..

  23. #20
    Well, I guess I proved my point.

    ...rather wish I hadn't.

    $1,000,000,000,000 for your trouble.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, I guess I proved my point.

    ...rather wish I hadn't.

    $1,000,000,000,000 for your trouble.
    We pay attention but what more is there to say?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We pay attention but what more is there to say?
    If there were one (1) spending thread for every trivial dick wagging congressman thread, I'b be happy.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If there were one (1) spending thread for every trivial dick wagging congressman thread, I'b be happy.
    Muh culture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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