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Thread: Trump to send astronauts back to the moon -- and eventually Mars

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    spending trillions on outer space when we have humans starving on Earth is retarded.
    The moon is made of government cheese.

    Quote Originally Posted by navy-vet View Post
    Helium-3 among other things. It would certainly be in our best interests to establish a moon outpost there. The Chinese and the Russians are going to sooner or later.
    I can't believe nobody got that one...

    Last edited by fedupinmo; 12-12-2017 at 07:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    LOL- the best thing he could do is to get .gov out of the space program and let free enterprise take over. We'd have outer space pioneers exploring the universe in no time.
    He did propose cutting funding for NASA in his budget proposal. Now he wants to spend more money?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...et-cuts-2017-5

    If congress agrees with Trump’s latest budget proposal, NASA will have about $561 million less to work with in 2018 than it did in 2017.
    I think he is looking at the military more than scientific view of the space program though- and using "jobs" to help sell it:

    https://www.geekwire.com/2017/moon-m...-details-come/

    During today’s ceremony, Trump put extra emphasis on the space effort’s implications for the economy and the military. “Space has so much to do with so many other applications, including a military application,” he said. “So we are the leader, and we’re going to stay the leader, and we’re going to increase it many-fold.

    As he sat down to sign the directive, the president made sure to cover the employment angle as well: “This is very exciting, and very important for our country, and it also happens to mean jobs. Jobs! And we love jobs, too, right?” he said.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Best Sci-Fi TV show ever.
    Don't forget the 8 episode run of Quark.

    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

  5. #34

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    The state has no business being involved in space exploration, obviously, but this is relatively less destructive than much of what they do.

    ...building things and then detonating them, for instance.

    Personally, I hope to live long enough to see some serious (privately financed, entrepreneurial) space exploration.

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The state has no business being involved in space exploration, obviously, but this is relatively less destructive than much of what they do.

    ...building things and then detonating them, for instance.

    Personally, I hope to live long enough to see some serious (privately financed, entrepreneurial) space exploration.
    Like this? https://mic.com/articles/38783/mars-...ion#.AdXcL379P

    Mars One: Meet the Private Companies Dominating the Future Of Space Exploration

    Children born today will grow up wanting to become doctors, firefighters, policemen, and … corporate astronauts?

    Yes, truly, gone are the days in which government-driven space exploration alone will take us beyond our imaginations and to a galaxy far, far away. And yes, that is a good thing!

    Many have cried out in protest over the decommissioning of NASA's shuttle program in early 2012 and have heralded many budget cuts as the demise of man’s expansion into the galaxy. Despite this outcry, there lies evidence that there is more hope than ever for our children to become the next generation of explorers to expand the boundaries of man's reach.

    In fact, in the spot left open by NASA, there now are dozens of burgeoning space companies vying for the opportunity to fill the government agency's shoes. NASA has already given a $1.2 billion contract to SpaceX to use their Dragon spacecraft to resupply the International Space Station, and could soon ferry astronauts at a much lower cost than using Russia's space shuttle to do the same job. NASA has also started a $1.9 billion partnership with another rocket company, Orbital Sciences, in an effort to create a robust and competitive space industry.

    Commercial spaceflight is also coming into its own — most notably, with Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic. In fact, the private space company performed a landmark test flight of its SpaceShipTwo space plane yesterday, lighting up the craft's rocket motor in flight for the first time. This marks another major milestone for Virgin as the company is planning to launch its first suborbital SpaceShipTwo flights by the end of this year. And for those who can shell out $200,000 a head, passenger flights are slated to begin in 2014.

    Also, amazingly, plans are moving forward to lasso an asteroid and pull it closer to Earth, so astronauts may visit it by 2025. This has provided a huge boost to asteroid mining companies like Deep Space Industries and Planetary Resources as they attempt to develop viable means of extracting water, precious metals like platinum, and other valuable resources from space rocks.

    Some visionaries want to escape the bonds of government-funded spaceflight. And, Netherlands-based nonprofit, Mars One, has a novel idea to do just that by privately funding a manned colony on Mars.

    The venture plans to cover the estimated one-way, $6 billion cost by creating a global reality television show depicting the selection of the initial astronauts and the crew's first years on Mars and selling corporate sponsorships and the broadcasting rights to the series. After pre-screening the astronaut candidates, viewers would even be able to help select the crew.

    Mars One co-founder Bas Lansdorp has said that, "[The idea] was triggered when I saw the revenue figures of the International Olympic Committee ... After that we talked to many different experts in the field, all of whom are convinced the media value is far greater than the cost associated with our mission to Mars."

    All this only represents a few of the dozens of private space companies and bold, new ideas now getting off the ground. Truthfully, the growth of the private space industry has been quite dramatic in the past few years, and it'll only increase its pace once these markets take hold.

    As with any start-up technology industry, the space market and its technologies are developing rapidly, and often in unpredictable ways. While private-sector space ventures were once considered implausible, they are now becoming the norm. Whether it is in transportation, research, exploration, resource mining, tourism, or even the colonization of other planets, the private sector has a key role to play in mankind’s efforts to expand its presence and knowledge beyond Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #36

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    @Zippyjuan

    Commercial spaceflight is also coming into its own — most notably, with Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic. In fact, the private space company performed a landmark test flight of its SpaceShipTwo space plane yesterday, lighting up the craft's rocket motor in flight for the first time. This marks another major milestone for Virgin as the company is planning to launch its first suborbital SpaceShipTwo flights by the end of this year. And for those who can shell out $200,000 a head, passenger flights are slated to begin in 2014.
    This is no better than direct government involvement.

    Some visionaries want to escape the bonds of government-funded spaceflight. And, Netherlands-based nonprofit, Mars One, has a novel idea to do just that by privately funding a manned colony on Mars.

    The venture plans to cover the estimated one-way, $6 billion cost by creating a global reality television show depicting the selection of the initial astronauts and the and the crew's first years on Mars and selling corporate sponsorships and the broadcasting rights to the series.
    This is better, but as evidenced by their business plan, space exploration is still not economic in its own right.

    The technology doesn't exist, as I understand it, to economically harvest the vast natural resources out there - yet.

    But if we don't destroy ourselves here, it probably will at some point.

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    @Zippyjuan



    This is no better than direct government involvement.



    This is better, but as evidenced by their business plan, space exploration is still not economic in its own right.

    The technology doesn't exist, as I understand it, to economically harvest the vast natural resources out there - yet.

    But if we don't destroy ourselves here, it probably will at some point.
    Due to the great distances and transportation costs, space will never offer great economic opportunity. Money is mostly in satellites.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  9. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Due to the great distances and transportation costs, space will never offer great economic opportunity. Money is mostly in satellites.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Due to the great distances and transportation costs, space will never offer great economic opportunity. Money is mostly in satellites.
    That's the main obstacle now.

    For all of human history prior to the railroad, the same had been true of overland transportation.

    Assuming the required technology is physically possible, the main variable is the rate of economic growth.

    In that sense, growth-retarding state spending delays space exploration.

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    That's the main obstacle now.

    For all of human history prior to the railroad, the same had been true of overland transportation.

    Assuming the required technology is physically possible, the main variable is the rate of economic growth.

    In that sense, growth-retarding state spending delays space exploration.
    For mining, there are places on Earth with significantly lower transportation and mining costs.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    For mining, there are places on Earth with significantly lower transportation and mining costs.
    Things change.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    For mining, there are places on Earth with significantly lower transportation and mining costs.
    Astronomically lower (pun intended).

    Again, it's a question of possible future improvements in the efficiency of transportation.

  14. #43

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    There has recently been discussions about the possibilities of capturing an asteroid and parking it in orbit near the moon for mining its resources. They say they could capture one up to 500 tons. That is about 27 feet wide. For mining, you need to plant equipment on that asteroid and break it down and collect what it extracts. That doesn't leave you much space to work on. Estimated costs of capturing it- $2.6 billion. Then you need to move all of what you extract to a rocket to bring the ores back to earth for refining. That involves the costs of a trip to the moon and back. SpaceX expects costs of about $90 million a launch for their rocket.

    Let's say you were after gold and gold is distributed in the same ratio as the earth. Two tons of earth result in one ounce of gold. 500 ton asteroid would then have 250 ounces of gold at $1500 an ounce (yes, gold would not be the only metal they could extract). $375,000 dollars.

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...udget-science/
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  15. #44

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    David Brin had an interesting post on this

    https://www.facebook.com/thedavidbri...46?pnref=story

    Aaaand... Putin wins again! With this decision to squander NASA resources on the same dumb goal as China, Russia, Europeans, Indians and various billionaires, DT sabotages our chance to do what none of those others - only we - can do...go where the real riches are. Asteroids & Phobos. Sure, a lunar orbital station is valuable for many reasons. (For one thing: we could sell services to all those wannabe groups desperate to plant dusty footprints on the (for now) useless moon.)

    But repeating Apollo? Go ahead. Name any benefits for the US joining the symbolism craze - going back down that dusty gravity well! All you Republicans - (and return-to-the-moon' is a GOP catechism) - can offer is vague arm-waved justifications, zero facts. All this does is make us PART OF THE PACK! While we, alone could access the vast wealth in asteroids! Which is why Putin and the Kochs want to divert us.

    Oh, and of course this associates NASA with both money-wasting and Trumpism, now. Undermining overall support among the US citizenry. Spaceba!

    Dig what will happen. As costs mount, Trump will declare a diplomatic breakthrough! Turning the US moon landing effort into a wonderful "international cooperation" like the ISS! A new detente! And suckers will fall for it, kvelling as we subsidize Russian and Chinese footprints and technology sharing.

    There are zero aspects to this announcement that serve long term US interests. Indeed, every outcome will favor the Kremlin... and mining interests down here who want us never to access the real riches in space.

    Yes, doggie. Gooood doggie.
    ďÖlet us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!Ē Ė Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  16. #45

    Default Return to the Moon

    Hi, well a week ago, a press conference at the white house put forward, a return to the Moon, and then a mission to Mars.

    The crewed mission is probably around 2030, and may be end in 2033. I don't think it will be long term, some proven technology, and other countries won't have gone or will still be trying to get their first mission to go.

    I think it was a surprise, and good news. Finalised budget for this road will be next year in the NASA budget.

    As for Mars, I think that will be in 2060's. There are just too many problems, its going to take a few decades to bring the risk down, nothing has been done on this, only studies, there has been some landing balloon ideas, and test for heavy cargo landing, in the past few years, but that is it. There have been budget problems, quite a small amount. For a moon mission, the budget would need to be increased.

    I watched a past clip about Mr Paul and other candidates, which was from when he was last a congressmen nearly six years back talking on the subject of NASA, he sounded like he was living in the past, or a time without orbital flight.

    Private space flight will be slower on this. It may happen, but I would state at least around the time NASA would of sent a mission to Mars under the previous government.

    On the topic of the previous government, neither Barack or Joe, were really space enthusiasts. Barack claims he was the Mars President, nope.

  17. #46

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    Get lost, we don't need to waste money so Trekies can fulfill their fantasies.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #47

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    You can be ignorant, but NASA serves the country you people live in and the world.

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    You can be ignorant, but NASA serves the country you people live in and the world.
    Then shouldn't the world chip in on the cost?

  20. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    You can be ignorant, but NASA serves the country you people live in and the world.
    NASA serves the empire.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Then shouldn't the world chip in on the cost?
    It is a federal program, it then changed, with the satellites, so it helps the world too. May be all countries should have their own, but it is simply too much.

    At the end of the day, it would be national first since every country has different priorities and history.

  22. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    You can be ignorant, but NASA serves the country you people live in and the world.
    It is another arm of the Military/Industrial Complex.
    It was from inception a weapon delivery test program disguised as exploration.
    Ballistic Missiles are an expensive way into space when an efficient platform already existed.


    Private Space companies have done such in a few years with less money.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  23. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    You can be ignorant, but NASA serves the country you people live in and the world.
    Uhhh.

    What?

  24. #53

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    Yes, NASA is a mixed bag, it is for national security quite right. I don't see that ending. And no, I quite doubt a private company will put anyone anywhere, not for fifty years.

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