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Thread: NRA attacks Thomas Massie

  1. #1

    Thumbs down NRA attacks Thomas Massie

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    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #2

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    The NRA are anti-Second Amendment, anti-Liberty, liars. They're the largest gun grabbing group. They suck!
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Well thank you for helping to get hits to their page.

    You know. Since you can’t ever include a passage, description, or I don’t know, maybe the whole article.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
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  5. #4

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    It's worth noting that neocons are very involved in supporting the no-gun list and this NRA backed legislation.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
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  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Well thank you for helping to get hits to their page.

    You know. Since you can’t ever include a passage, description, or I don’t know, maybe the whole article.

    Here you go:

    In a recent Facebook Post, Congressman Thomas Massie (KY-4) included several inaccurate statements about H.R. 4477, the Fix-NICS bill. Below are some facts to set the record straight:

    CLAIM: “The bill will also advance former President Obama’s agenda of pressuring every branch of the administration (such as the Veteran’s Administration) to submit thousands of more names to the NICS background check database to deny gun purchases.”

    FACT: The bill requires that federal agencies submit the names of anyone who is already prohibited by law from possessing a firearm to the NICS background check database. This differs from former President Obama’s efforts, in which he attempted to administratively create new categories of individuals who were prohibited from possessing a firearm. H.R. 4477, by contrast, is aimed squarely at individuals like the perpetrator of the recent murders in Texas, who should have been reported to NICS because of his disqualifying criminal history.

    CLAIM: “The bill is being rammed through, without a hearing, in a very nontransparent process, and it will be passed by attaching it to the popular concealed carry reciprocity bill which already has enough votes to pass on its own.”
    FACT:The bill went through a very thorough and public markup session of its own. And like the concealed carry reciprocity bill, the Fix NICS bill would also have enough votes to pass on its own.

    CLAIM: “It spends over half a billion dollars to collect more names to include in a list of people who will never be allowed to own a firearm.”
    FACT: The bill incentivizes states to transmit the records of individuals who, under current law, are alreadyprohibited from possessing a firearm. It does not create new categories of restriction.

    CLAIM: “It compels administrative agencies, not just courts, to adjudicate your second amendment rights.”
    FACT: Since 1994, administrative agencies have been required to report individuals who are prohibited under current law from possessing a firearm to NICS. Fix-NICS merely adds additional layers of transparency and accountability to the process, as a well as a new 60-day deadline for the government to resolve claims of recordsthat have been erroneously included in NICS.




    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  7. #6

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    NICS is an unconstitutional line of fBi(ALSO unconstitutional) bureaucratic bull$hit

    ABOLISH IT!

    Please tell me why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).

    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide


    ^THAT^

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    The NRA are anti-Second Amendment, anti-Liberty, liars. They're the largest gun grabbing group. They suck!
    Just think how their fundraising would go if they "succeeded" in protecting our rights...
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Here you go:

    In a recent Facebook Post, Congressman Thomas Massie (KY-4) included several inaccurate statements about H.R. 4477, the Fix-NICS bill. Below are some facts to set the record straight:

    CLAIM: “The bill will also advance former President Obama’s agenda of pressuring every branch of the administration (such as the Veteran’s Administration) to submit thousands of more names to the NICS background check database to deny gun purchases.”

    FACT: The bill requires that federal agencies submit the names of anyone who is already prohibited by law from possessing a firearm to the NICS background check database. This differs from former President Obama’s efforts, in which he attempted to administratively create new categories of individuals who were prohibited from possessing a firearm. H.R. 4477, by contrast, is aimed squarely at individuals like the perpetrator of the recent murders in Texas, who should have been reported to NICS because of his disqualifying criminal history.

    CLAIM: “The bill is being rammed through, without a hearing, in a very nontransparent process, and it will be passed by attaching it to the popular concealed carry reciprocity bill which already has enough votes to pass on its own.”
    FACT:The bill went through a very thorough and public markup session of its own. And like the concealed carry reciprocity bill, the Fix NICS bill would also have enough votes to pass on its own.

    CLAIM: “It spends over half a billion dollars to collect more names to include in a list of people who will never be allowed to own a firearm.”
    FACT: The bill incentivizes states to transmit the records of individuals who, under current law, are alreadyprohibited from possessing a firearm. It does not create new categories of restriction.

    CLAIM: “It compels administrative agencies, not just courts, to adjudicate your second amendment rights.”
    FACT: Since 1994, administrative agencies have been required to report individuals who are prohibited under current law from possessing a firearm to NICS. Fix-NICS merely adds additional layers of transparency and accountability to the process, as a well as a new 60-day deadline for the government to resolve claims of recordsthat have been erroneously included in NICS.

    CLAIM: “The bill will also advance former President Obama’s agenda of pressuring every branch of the administration (such as the Veteran’s Administration) to submit thousands of more names to the NICS background check database to deny gun purchases.”

    NRA CLAIM: The bill requires that federal agencies submit the names of anyone who is already prohibited by law from possessing a firearm to the NICS background check database. This differs from former President Obama’s efforts, in which he attempted to administratively create new categories of individuals who were prohibited from possessing a firearm. H.R. 4477, by contrast, is aimed squarely at individuals like the perpetrator of the recent murders in Texas, who should have been reported to NICS because of his disqualifying criminal history.

    FACT: So NRA confirms Massie is correct. The bill does pressure every branch to submit more names to the database.




    CLAIM: “The bill is being rammed through, without a hearing, in a very nontransparent process, and it will be passed by attaching it to the popular concealed carry reciprocity bill which already has enough votes to pass on its own.”

    NRA CLAIM: The bill went through a very thorough and public markup session of its own. And like the concealed carry reciprocity bill, the Fix NICS bill would also have enough votes to pass on its own.

    FACT: A markup session is not the same as a Congressional hearing. A markup sessions is just congressman talking to each other, debating and rewriting. There is no testimony or separate investigation in a markup session. A hearing allows outside testimony by experts, public interest groups, and additional investigation. So once again NRA confirms it is indeed being rammed through without a hearing.




    CLAIM: “It spends over half a billion dollars to collect more names to include in a list of people who will never be allowed to own a firearm.”

    NRA CLAIM: The bill incentivizes states to transmit the records of individuals who, under current law, are already prohibited from possessing a firearm. It does not create new categories of restriction.

    FACT: NRA does not dispute the costs of over half a billion. NRA makes a straw argument that the bill “does not create new categories”. Well Massie did not say that it did. The bill however does require adding many more people to the categories already created. That is the point.



    CLAIM: “It compels administrative agencies, not just courts, to adjudicate your second amendment rights.”

    FACT: Since 1994, administrative agencies have been required to report individuals who are prohibited under current law from possessing a firearm to NICS. Fix-NICS merely adds additional layers of transparency and accountability to the process, as a well as a new 60-day deadline for the government to resolve claims of records that have been erroneously included in NICS.

    So NRA is arguing the bill only requires agencies to do what they are already required to do, and therefore we need a redundant law to tell the agencies to do what they are already supposed to do. Yeah that makes sense. Its’ like saying if people aren’t following the law that says stop at atop signs, the answer is to have a second law that says stop at stop signs.

    The 60 day deadline to resolve disputes on the NICS is a positive.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  10. #9

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    The NRA is a great organization. They've been an invaluable defender of our 2nd amendment hunting rights.

    They've also been a great ally with regard to Olympic target shooting:

    https://www.nrablog.com/articles/201...mpic-shooting/
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  11. #10

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    I'm so thankful NRA protect my 2nd amendment right to hunt. Look how these losers hunt when they have no 2nd amendment:



    SAD!
    This is the essence of tragedy,
    To have meant well and made woe, and watch Fate,
    All stone, approach

  12. #11

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    The article doesn't seem to be making very good arguments lol
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    The NRA is a great organization. They've been an invaluable defender of our 2nd amendment hunting rights.

    They've also been a great ally with regard to Olympic target shooting:

    https://www.nrablog.com/articles/201...mpic-shooting/
    It was all about hunting. Heck, I heard a scholar say that the Militia was the name of a hunting and fishing club back then.

  14. #13

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    The first American FlagTM was safety orange.
    This is the essence of tragedy,
    To have meant well and made woe, and watch Fate,
    All stone, approach

  15. #14

    Default

    CLAIM: “The bill will also advance former President Obama’s agenda of pressuring every branch of the administration (such as the Veteran’s Administration) to submit thousands of more names to the NICS background check database to deny gun purchases.”

    FACT: The bill requires that federal agencies submit the names of anyone who is already prohibited by law from possessing a firearm to the NICS background check database. This differs from former President Obama’s efforts, in which he attempted to administratively create new categories of individuals who were prohibited from possessing a firearm. H.R. 4477, by contrast, is aimed squarely at individuals like the perpetrator of the recent murders in Texas, who should have been reported to NICS because of his disqualifying criminal history.


    So the claim was correct (surely Obama, in addition to creating new categories, wanted to enforce existing ones).


    CLAIM: “The bill is being rammed through, without a hearing, in a very nontransparent process, and it will be passed by attaching it to the popular concealed carry reciprocity bill which already has enough votes to pass on its own.”

    FACT:
    The bill went through a very thorough and public markup session of its own. And like the concealed carry reciprocity bill, the Fix NICS bill would also have enough votes to pass on its own.

    Does public markup session = hearing (I'm assuming not, otherwise they'd have used the word hearing).

    As to what would or wouldn't pass, those aren't facts (send the NRA a dictionary, and maybe a Constitution for good measure).


    CLAIM: “It spends over half a billion dollars to collect more names to include in a list of people who will never be allowed to own a firearm.”

    FACT:
    The bill incentivizes states to transmit the records of individuals who, under current law, are alreadyprohibited from possessing a firearm. It does not create new categories of restriction.

    Incenvitizes with....hugs?

    CLAIM: “It compels administrative agencies, not just courts, to adjudicate your second amendment rights.”

    FACT:
    Since 1994, administrative agencies have been required to report individuals who are prohibited under current law from possessing a firearm to NICS. Fix-NICS merely adds additional layers of transparency and accountability to the process, as a well as a new 60-day deadline for the government to resolve claims of recordsthat have been erroneously included in NICS.

    So, at best, the NRA bill merely continues the abominable practice, rather than creates or expands it.

    You got him! Good job NRA!


    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  16. #15

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    From Duty to be Armed to Permission to Carry

    By Publius Huldah 12/8/2017

    “If the central government has the authority to tell a state it must accept permits from all the other states, then it also has the authority to tell a state it may not accept a concealed permit from any other states. If the central government can do these things it can set up a national concealed carry permit scheme and in essence bring into existence a national arms registry. That is exactly where this is headed.”
    -Attorney Richard D. Fry 1

    Some are touting the federal Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 (HR 38) as a bill which would expand our right to carry. But if you will walk with me for a few minutes, I’ll show you a better path to take.

    Let us look at the applicable First Principles, to which I propose we return.


    1. Gun control is not an enumerated power delegated to the federal government

    Our federal Constitution doesn’t delegate to the federal government any power over the Country at Large 2 to restrict our arms. Accordingly, all pretended federal laws, regulations, orders, opinions, or treaties which purport to do so are unconstitutional as outside the scope of powers delegated. They are also unconstitutional as in violation of the Second Amendment.

    The only power the federal government has over the Country at Large respecting arms is set forth at Article I, §8, clause 16 with respect to providing for the “organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia”. Pursuant to this clause, Congress passed the Militia Act of 1792 which required every able-bodied male citizen (with a few exceptions) between the ages of 18 and 45 to acquire a rifle, bayonet, ammo, ammo pouch, and report to his local Militia Unit for training. 3


    2. What does your State Constitution say about the right to keep and bear arms?

    Each State has its own Constitution which addresses its State Militia and the right to be armed.

    Now listen: No State may lawfully make any law which contradicts its State Constitution or which interferes with Congress’ power to “organize, arm, and discipline, the Militia”.

    Accordingly, any State Statute which purports to require a permit before one may carry a gun is probably unconstitutional under that State’s Constitution; and is certainly unconstitutional under the federal Constitution because Congress may lawfully require able-bodied male Citizens to acquire firearms and ammo and report to their local Militia Unit for training.

    Do you see?

    Now let’s look at Title 18, US Code, Part I, Chapter 44, which HR 38 proposes to amend.


    3. Title 18, US Code, Part I, Chapter 44 is unconstitutional

    It sets up a complex federal regulatory scheme over firearms, every word of which is unconstitutional as outside the scope of powers delegated, and as in violation of the Second Amendment.

    HERE it is, look through it (§§ 921-931).


    4. What HR 38 actually does

    HR 38 proposes to amend this existing federal regulatory scheme to insert a new provision [to be § 926 D] to require States which have a statute which permits residents of their State to apply for a permit [!] to carry a concealed firearm

    to allow persons from other States:

    · who aren’t prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms [!]; and
    · who are carrying a photographic ID issued by a government body [!]; and
    · who are carrying a concealed carry license or permit from the other State [!],
    to possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or “destructive device”) which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

    So, even though a State Constitution, such as that for Connecticut, 4 prohibits the State Legislature from making ANY laws restricting firearms (such as imposing requirements for registration, a permit, government issued photo ID), a Citizen of Connecticut who exercises his constitutionally recognized right to carry without registration or a permit or a government issued photo ID, wouldn’t qualify under HR 38 for concealed carry in another State.

    To qualify for concealed carry in other States, the Citizen of Connecticut would need his State Legislature to pass a law [which is unconstitutional under the Connecticut and federal Constitutions], so that he could comply with an unconstitutional federal statute [HR 38], so that he could carry in other States which also would have to pass unconstitutional laws imposing permit requirements on those who carry concealed.

    Do you see how a God-given right [self-defense] is thus converted into a privilege which is regulated, granted, or denied, by civil government?

    HR 38 also provides that any person carrying a concealed handgun in a State under the reciprocity provisions may also carry concealed in the public parts of National Parks and certain other lands under federal control. Lest you think this a gain, consider that: (1) The Constitution doesn’t authorize the federal government to operate national parks and such like, and (2) the federal government has no lawful authority to impose registration requirements for carrying arms anywhere.


    5. What’s the solution?
    Read more at the Tenth Amendment Center: http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2017...sion-to-carry/
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  17. #16

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    I stand with Massie.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  18. #17

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    fk the nra
    Don't drone me, bro!

    Ron Paul
    R[∃vo˩]ution 2017


  19. #18

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    Don’t ‘Fix NICS,’ Trash It:

    Republicans are joining with Democrats to bring up gun control in the form of supposed “NICS Fix” bills, H.R. 4434 and S. 2135. …

    anything short of repealing the National Instant Check System (NICS) is the wrong move, both practically and in principle. …

    Dr. John Lott has shown that, according to Department of Justice data, 95 percent of initial denials are “false positives.” This can happen when an honest citizen attempts to purchase a gun—his or her name can be erroneously matched with a criminal’s name, and the citizen is then denied a gun. …

    Even if NICS was a perfect system, it still does not prevent bad guys from getting guns by other means. …

    The attempts to “fix NICS” will at best be redundant, and at worse make the system more problematic. … If more names are added to the NICS records, then the number of false positive denials will actually rise.

    For example, consider that 257,000 military veterans had their gun rights denied when their names were added into NICS because someone else handles their finances. Other decent citizens—such as medical marijuana users, and even those who have unpaid speeding tickets—are also at risk of having their rights denied under H.R. 4434 and S. 2135. …

    Supporters of this legislation note that the bill contains language which purports to require the Attorney General to remove erroneously submitted names within 60 days. … the Brady Law itself ALREADY requires the prompt correction of erroneous records—but this provision has been deliberately ignored for over two decades. … there are no sanctions in the bill which can be applied against anyone in the Justice Department for non-compliance, this supposed “protection” is not worth the paper it is written on. …
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  20. #19

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    Commentary at Mises:

    On Wednesday, the Republican controlled house voted to further federalize gun laws in this country. … it expands the ability of the Federal government to restrict Americans’ right to bear arms.

    the NRA supported merging the bill aimed at nationalizing concealed carry permits with another piece of legislation aimed at “fixing” the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS.) … unfortunately this bill is simply another example of the Federal government using its own failure to justify expanding its own power.

    After all, the “Fix NICS” bill doesn’t seek to punish the US Air Force for its failure to properly process paperwork. Instead, it provides $760 million in additional funding for the Department of Justice to establish new guidelines … can also be used “to ensure maximum coordination” between State government and Indian tribes with the NICS.

    While the idea of bolstering the already existing Federal gun registry may strike some as relatively benign, it’s important to understand how it has been used in the past.

    When President Obama couldn’t get Congress to pass gun control, he implemented a strategy of compelling, through administrative rules, the Veterans Administration and the Social Security Administration to submit lists of veterans and seniors, many of whom never had a day in court, to be included in the NICS database of people prohibited from owning a firearm. …

    there is never a good reason to give Federal agencies the power the revoke an individual’s ability to lawfully purchase a weapon without due process.

    Further, if one needed an example of how dangerous it is to centralize gun legislation in Washington DC, look no further to what gun owners in states like Ohio and Hawaii are currently facing. Both states, having recently legalized the use of medical marijuana, have placed those who need it with the choice of either owning a gun or receiving life-improving medicine.

    In 2011, the Federal government sent a letter to licensed gun dealers reiterating that marijuana users were prohibited from owning a gun – even if it they have a medical prescription. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld this decision last year. Hawaii, which requires gun registration, has gone as far as to sending letters to permitted gun owners with marijuana prescriptions requiring they turn over their weapon. …
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  21. #20

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    Massie is a Great American .

  22. #21

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    I gave up on the NRA 25 years ago. When I tell NRA types why I don't support the NRA their eyes glaze over and they have nothing to say. The NRA has long been standing by or actively helping the goonerment chip away at the right to bear arms. Note that the "right" does not EVER go away. The only thing that changes is that the goonerment TARGETS certain individuals for exercising their right and then kills them for doing so.

    NO ONE has the right to tell another that they cannot exercise ALL God given rights... There are no exceptions...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.






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