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Thread: Jerusalem 'Fallout' Updates....

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Oh, that makes sense, I just read it wrong.
    It was't very clear. I first thought it meant people travelling to/from Jerusalem and getting their passport stamped.



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  3. #32
    not a quiet sabbath morning...

    Nasser Atta-
    @nasseratta5
    Renewed clashes in #Jerusalem today #Trump















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    Pope Tawadros II, Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church in Alexandria, announced his refusal to meet with the US Vice President Mike Pence amid his scheduled visit in Egypt this later month.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQm6tk3VoAAwZwR.jpg:large

    ========

    Lebanon

    Lebanon Christian Pres. Michael Aoun in solidarity rejecting statement....
    Jerusalem projected on Cathedral and Mosque in Downtown Beirut



    ========

    Turkey Erdogan just called Israel "an occupying state".



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    LIVE: Rally against Netanyahu and Trump hits Paris


    LIVE: Palestinians protest against Trump in Jerusalem


    =====

    Telesur
    US and Israel 'Isolated' at UN Security Council Meeting on Jerusalem
    https://www.telesurtv.net/english/ne...1208-0020.html


    "While there are two parties in this conflict, they are not on a level playing field," Bolivian ambassador Llorenti said. "One is an occupying power, the other is an occupied people.

    "One party builds illegal settlements... One party puts a siege on Gaza... One party takes over the water resources and farmlands of the other .... One of the parties engages in forced displacement. Bolivia opposes the unilateral decision of the United States to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel."

    Other representatives, including France, Japan, Russia, and Sweden, expressed their dismay at the decision, saying that it would lead to violence and potentially ruin chances at the peace process that President Trump claims to favor.

    Egyptian Ambassador Amr Aboulatta said he expected the decision to have a "grave" impact on peace.
    =========

    Jordan

    Last edited by goldenequity; 12-09-2017 at 09:11 AM.



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  5. #33
    This was an entirely orchestrated crisis: another sad episode in the 'clash of civilizations" certain parties here and in Israel have been fabricating for decades. This was bound to create polarization in the region, strengthening both extremes at the expense of moderates, and making compromise less likely - and that is precisely why the neocons/likudniks have been pushing for it (no doubt the ISIS leadership is also pleased). It's just like with the settlement policy, which is less about the scraps of land which are gained than about the political lobby against compromise which is created.

    The credibility of all American politicians now requires acknowledging that America is engaged in a great war for survival – “the war against Islam.” Fear of “radical Islamic terrorists” requires our undivided attention. We’re to believe that the ugly and vicious violence of a very small percentage of the 1.7 billion Muslims around the world, without an army, navy, or air force, is on the verge of engulfing America and Western civilization. The claim is that the Western concept of Christianity, liberty, and free markets is threatened. If this is so, it speaks more about the weak support for these values than for the strength of a small group claiming to speak for all of Islam. It may not make much sense, but it provokes the fear required for warmongering.

    The popular belief that a gigantic clash of civilizations explains today’s conditions fits well into the propaganda efforts of the neocon inspired American Empire. One cannot deny that a group exists that associates itself with Islam and preaches violence in combination with extreme religious beliefs. Al Qaeda and ISIS do exist. Claiming that they alone are responsible for the great “clash” is purposely misleading. That misunderstanding is required by Western propagandists to gain public support for their wars in the Middle East, and for a continuation of the American Empire. Unfortunately, so far it has worked pretty well.

    Fear is the tool used to galvanize a people into supporting war while sacrificing liberty. Exaggerations and propping up groups who falsely claim to represent 99 percent of Muslims, serves the interests of those in the West who want the clash of civilizations for their own selfish purposes. Current US and Western support for ISIS in Syria, even though it’s denied, is designed to remove Assad. This policy is in the tradition of our foreign policy of recent decades. Aligning ourselves with the creation of Hamas and the mujahedin (Taliban) is well documented.

    The emphasis on a clash of civilizations is more about ruthless pragmatism than it is of a great battle of two civilizations. Promoters of war must first find or create an enemy to demonize in order to gain the people’s support for stupid and illegal preemptive wars. The Iraq war was built on lies and fearmongering. US leaders, prodded by the neoconservatives, continue to propagandize for a “crusade” against Islam in order to justify rearranging the Middle East according to their desires. Disregarding all previous failures in this effort is not a problem if the people can be convinced that the enemy is grotesque and threatening our way of life.

    It’s strange, but 130 people killed in Paris has served the purpose of throwing reason to the wind, and the majority of Americans have become anxious for a showdown with Islam no matter how many lies have to be told and people killed.

    If what is said by the neoconservatives about Islam is true, nuking Indonesia would seem logical. Two hundred and three million Muslims could be wiped out rather quickly. What many fail to admit is that ISIS deliberately manipulates Islam to inspire violence by some, which helps them gain recruits for their cause. This is not a reflection of the 1.6 billion Muslims around the world. It’s like claiming that the KKK represents sound Christian theology. Many evangelical Christians support preemptive war in the Middle East, but that doesn’t mean that Christians must give up the notion that, as Jesus said, “Blessed are the Peacemakers.”

    Both sides of this huge so-called clash of two civilizations benefit from allowing fringe elements of both religious cultures to support the hypothesis. Both sides need the fear associated with a clash of civilizations to motivate the masses to fight a war that Western leaders have initiated. It may be a hoax, but such a war is still very dangerous and can easily spin out of control.
    http://original.antiwar.com/paul/201...civilizations/

  6. #34
    Israel has a right to exist. Israel can recognize whatever capital they want and the US should recognize what Israel says is their capital.

    Rioting and violence is not okay. There should be no appeasement to the animals that surround Israel.

  7. #35
    “We Will Not Serve in Your Army!” Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem Beaten, Arrested for Refusing Draft
    http://www.mintpressnews.com/we-will...-draft/235323/


    Orthodox J€ws in New York protest US Jerusalem move



    ---------

    Greek Orthodox Patriarch Theofilos and heads of local churches ask US president to revoke Jerusalem decision
    http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/201...ump-jerusalem/


    Russian Market
    Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan and French President Emmanuel Macron spoke over phone, agreed to try to persuade U.S. to reconsider its decision on Jerusalem, @Reuters

    Armenia
    HIS HOLINESS ARAM I REJECTS THE U.S. RECOGNITION OF JERUSALEM AS THE CAPITAL OF ISRAEL
    http://www.armenianorthodoxchurch.org/en/archives/20770


    Turkish Assyrians: Jerusalem belongs to 3 faiths, not 1
    http://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/tu...-not-1-2880157


    Asharq Al-Awsat Eng-
    Breaking| Jordan FM: We reject Washington's recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

    'No Pence-Abbas talks'
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42294409

    The US vice-president is due to visit the Middle East later this month, but Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' adviser Majdi al-Khaldi said the pair would not be meeting.
    "America has crossed all red lines with its latest decisions over Jerusalem," Majdi al-Khaldi said.


    EndGameShow-
    Egypt: Arab Foreign Ministers Condemn Trump's Jerusalem Decision


    Times Square















    -----------


    Thousands protest against Netanyahu for second week in Tel Aviv
    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Tho...el-Aviv-517550






    AFP news agency-
    Israelis take part in the "March of Shame" demonstration to protest against government corruption and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Tel Aviv


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQoU7RbUMAAvzLd.jpg:large
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQoU57KV4AAbz8l.jpg:large
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQoU2M3VoAABS87.jpg:large
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQoU1BwV4AAdWQ_.jpg:large

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Israel has a right to exist. Israel can recognize whatever capital they want and the US should recognize what Israel says is their capital.

    Rioting and violence is not okay. There should be no appeasement to the animals that surround Israel.
    Israel Palestine has a right to exist. Israel Palestine can recognize whatever capital they want and the US should recognize what Israel Palestine says is their capital.

    Bulldozing, confiscating property, theft, raiding crops, poisoning livestock, shooting, kidnapping and shipping people to walled off concentration zones, and other violence is not okay. There should be no appeasement to the animals that surround Israel Palestine.
    Last edited by AZJoe; 12-09-2017 at 05:59 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  9. #37
    This needs repeating because all of the propagandists and virtue signalers are distorting the truth:


    The irony is that what the president said does not concede those rights and claims. His recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reflects a reality that it is the seat of Israel’s government and that, for the Jewish state, Jerusalem will always be its capital — there is no other city that could be. For Palestinians, they too no doubt cannot envision any city but Jerusalem as the capital of their state, if and when it emerges from moribund negotiations. The president’s statement does not rule that out: On the contrary, he said that the United States is not taking a position on “the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.” Those questions, he said, “are up to the parties involved.”

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/moving-u-...215434421.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Israel Palestine has a right to exist. Israel Palestine can recognize whatever capital they want and the US should recognize what Israel Palestine says is their capital.

    Bulldozing, confiscating property, theft, raiding crops, poisoning livestock, shooting, kidnapping and shipping people to walled off concentration zones, and other violence is not okay. There should be no appeasement to the animals that surround Israel Palestine.

    We are not GloboCop, when the Palestinians control a territory and establish a capital then we can recognize it, until then no matter what you think of Israel Jerusalem is their capital.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We are not GloboCop, when the Palestinians control a territory and establish a capital then we can recognize it, until then no matter what you think of Israel Jerusalem is their capital.
    You make it sound like it's a fact that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, like it's a fact that Israel borders the Mediterranean. "Being a capital" is not a physical property of a city. It's not a fact. It's a moral idea, the essence of which is that the Israeli state (and not any present or future Palestinian state) should control Jerusalem. The question is: why should anyone endorse that moral idea? Well, for the people actually responsible for the decision, the reason is that propagating the idea aids Israeli nationalism. For people who have nothing but contempt for nationalism, Israeli or otherwise, it's hard to see any virtue in the idea, unless one positively likes violence., death, and destruction of property.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You make it sound like it's a fact that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, like it's a fact that Israel borders the Mediterranean. "Being a capital" is not a physical property of a city. It's not a fact. It's a moral idea, the essence of which is that the Israeli state (and not any present or future Palestinian state) should control Jerusalem. The question is: why should anyone endorse that moral idea? Well, for the people actually responsible for the decision, the reason is that propagating the idea aids Israeli nationalism. For people who have nothing but contempt for nationalism, Israeli or otherwise, it's hard to see any virtue in the idea, unless one positively likes violence., death, and destruction of property.
    Bunk, Jerusalem is where they have located the seat of their government therefore it is their capital, that is a simple fact like the fact that Israel borders the Mediteranian.

    And this apparently needs repeating AGAIN:

    This needs repeating because all of the propagandists and virtue signalers are distorting the truth:


    The irony is that what the president said does not concede those rights and claims. His recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reflects a reality that it is the seat of Israel’s government and that, for the Jewish state, Jerusalem will always be its capital — there is no other city that could be. For Palestinians, they too no doubt cannot envision any city but Jerusalem as the capital of their state, if and when it emerges from moribund negotiations. The president’s statement does not rule that out: On the contrary, he said that the United States is not taking a position on “the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.” Those questions, he said, “are up to the parties involved.”

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/moving-u-...215434421.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Bunk, Jerusalem is where they have located the seat of their government therefore it is their capital, that is a simple fact like the fact that Israel borders the Mediteranian.
    No, it's a moral statement. That's the only reason anyone cares about it, including you. If the US came out and said "We recognize that Jerusalem is the place where the Israeli government in fact spends its time" no one would care. The dispute is over the implicit moral statement behind recognition (Israel has the right to Jerusalem), not some trivial matter of fact.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    No, it's a moral statement. That's the only reason anyone cares about it, including you. If the US came out and said "We recognize that Jerusalem is the place where the Israeli government in fact spends its time" no one would care. The dispute is over the implicit moral statement behind recognition (Israel has the right to Jerusalem), not some trivial matter of fact.
    No, it is merely dealing with the facts on the ground, what is a moral statement (and one we don't have a right to make) is refusing to recognize Jerusalem as their capital, this sends a message that we declare that they don't belong in Jerusalem. (East or West)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, it is merely dealing with the facts on the ground, what is a moral statement (and one we don't have a right to make) is refusing to recognize Jerusalem as their capital, this sends a message that we declare that they don't belong in Jerusalem. (East or West)
    Let me get this straight....

    Declaring that Jerusalem is their capital = mere statement of fact

    Not declaring that Jerusalem is their capital = moral statement against them

    ...?

    No, saying nothing is nothing; coming out with a statement either way is a moral statement. If Obama had come out and announced that the US does not recognize Jerusalem as the capital, he'd have been expressing moral support the Palestinians retaking Jerusalem, just as Trump's recent statement is moral support for the Israelis' retention of Jerusalem.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Let me get this straight....

    Declaring that Jerusalem is their capital = mere statement of fact
    Yes because THEY are the ones who decide where their capital is, THEY have made the moral statement when they declared Jerusalem their capital, we are simply complying with the determination THEY made and which it is their right to make. (If they make a "wrong" determination that is their responsibility)

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Not declaring that Jerusalem is their capital = moral statement against them

    ...?
    Yes because that is defying their determination, the determination that it is THEIR right to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    No, saying nothing is nothing; coming out with a statement either way is a moral statement. If Obama had come out and announced that the US does not recognize Jerusalem as the capital, he'd have been expressing moral support the Palestinians retaking Jerusalem, just as Trump's recent statement is moral support for the Israelis' retention of Jerusalem.
    The status quo was NOT "saying nothing" we have declared for a long time that Tel Aviv was their capital in contradiction of their determination that Jerusalem is their capital, which it is NOT our right to do.

    What would be a moral statement on our part?
    Declaring that Jerusalem shouldn't be divided and that a future Palestine can't have it's capital in E. Jerusalem.
    Trump did NOT do this.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes because THEY are the ones who decide where their capital is, THEY have made the moral statement when they declared Jerusalem their capital, we are simply complying with the determination THEY made and which it is their right to make. (If they make a "wrong" determination that is their responsibility)
    It's not about what THEY did, it's about what WE just did, and what SOME OF US are now endorsing, or not.

    Anyway, on a slightly different note, suppose that two years ago the US formally recognized Raqqa as the capital of ISIS.

    ....any objections to that?

    Yes because that is defying their determination, the determination that it is THEIR right to make.

    The status quo was NOT "saying nothing" we have declared for a long time that Tel Aviv was their capital in contradiction of their determination that Jerusalem is their capital, which it is NOT our right to do.

    What would be a moral statement on our part?
    Declaring that Jerusalem shouldn't be divided and that a future Palestine can't have it's capital in E. Jerusalem.
    Trump did NOT do this.
    See above, I don't think I have anything more to say about it

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It's not about what THEY did, it's about what WE just did, and what SOME OF US are now endorsing, or not.
    What we did takes place in the context of what they did, see my explanation above.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Anyway, on a slightly different note, suppose that two years ago the US formally recognized Raqqa as the capital of ISIS.

    ....any objections to that?
    I would object to recognizing them as a sovereign state let alone recognizing their capital since necessity did not require it and they are morally reprehensible. (they were NOT in undisputed control of their territory, Syria still existed and their had been no end to their revolutionary war)



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    See above, I don't think I have anything more to say about it
    We may be at a philosophical impasse.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I would object to recognizing them as a sovereign state let alone recognizing their capital since necessity did not require it and they are morally reprehensible. (they were NOT in undisputed control of their territory, Syria still existed and their had been no end to their revolutionary war)
    I figured you say something along those lines (and I'm not sure that that's really true, but I'm not going to argue about it).

    Anyway, my reason for not endorsing their activities recognizing their capital would be more straightforeward: they're evil.

    They were doing harmful things and didn't need any PR help to keep doing those things for longer.

    We may be at a philosophical impasse.
    I think so



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I figured you say something along those lines (and I'm not sure that that's really true, but I'm not going to argue about it).

    Anyway, my reason for not endorsing their activities recognizing their capital would be more straightforeward: they're evil.

    They were doing harmful things and didn't need any PR help to keep doing those things for longer.
    I await your demand that we withdraw recognition of Red China and a host of other evil regimes around the world.

    Or is it just Israel that bothers you?
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 12-09-2017 at 11:03 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post

    Last edited by goldenequity; 12-09-2017 at 10:57 PM.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post





    Where in the Torah does it say Jews can't have a state?
    http://www.truetorahjews.org/qanda/source1
    "Jews" is Irrelevant, the State of Israel exists, it controls Jerusalem and it has made Jerusalem it's capital, everyone else can deal with that or try to take it from them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Arabs Should Consider Economic Sanctions on U.S. Over Jerusalem: Lebanon

    "The decision has no legal effect ... it deepens tension, ignites anger and threatens to plunge region into more violence and chaos," the Arab League said at 3 a.m. local time after hours of meetings that began on Saturday evening.

    It said it would seek a U.N. Security Council resolution rejecting the U.S. move.

    Lebanon's Foreign Minister Gebran Bassil said during the emergency meeting that Arab nations should consider imposing economic sanctions against the United States to prevent it moving its Israel embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

    "Pre-emptive measures (must be) taken ... beginning with diplomatic measures, then political, then economic and financial sanctions," he said, without giving specific details.

    The Arab League statement made no mention of economic sanctions.


    More at: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...usalem-lebanon

    Please kick us out of the UN, then we can all laugh as it collapses without our money and we are better off without it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I await your demand that we withdraw recognition of Red China and a host of other evil regimes around the world.

    Or is it just Israel that bother you?
    It's any action by our rulers which tends to undermine life/property.

    If unrecognizing red China would accomplish anything to that end (saving lives/property), I'd be all for it - not seeing the argument though.

    For Israel, this has already caused deaths, injuries, and property damage which otherwise would not have occurred, for a gain of nothing.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It's any action by our rulers which tends to undermine life/property.

    If unrecognizing red China would accomplish anything to that end (saving lives/property), I'd be all for it - not seeing the argument though.

    For Israel, this has already caused deaths, injuries, and property damage which otherwise would not have occurred, for a gain of nothing.
    Rioting Arabs caused deaths, injuries, and property damage, this doesn't even affect what they claim to want:

    The irony is that what the president said does not concede those rights and claims. His recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reflects a reality that it is the seat of Israel’s government and that, for the Jewish state, Jerusalem will always be its capital — there is no other city that could be. For Palestinians, they too no doubt cannot envision any city but Jerusalem as the capital of their state, if and when it emerges from moribund negotiations. The president’s statement does not rule that out: On the contrary, he said that the United States is not taking a position on “the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.” Those questions, he said, “are up to the parties involved.”

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/moving-u-...215434421.html


    The truth is that they don't want Israel to have any part of Jerusalem, they don't want Israel to exist, but they are too weak or cowardly to accomplish those things on their own so they attempt to manipulate/blackmail the rest of the world into doing it for them.

    I do not believe we should do their dirty work for them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Rioting Arabs caused deaths, injuries, and property damage, this doesn't even affect what they claim to want:
    ...which was entirely predictable and wouldn't have happened otherwise.

    Meanwhile, there is no gain at all on the other side of the ledger.

    It's the geopolitical equivalent of "fire!" in a crowded theatre.

    The irony is that what the president said does not concede those rights and claims. His recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reflects a reality that it is the seat of Israel’s government and that, for the Jewish state, Jerusalem will always be its capital — there is no other city that could be. For Palestinians, they too no doubt cannot envision any city but Jerusalem as the capital of their state, if and when it emerges from moribund negotiations. The president’s statement does not rule that out: On the contrary, he said that the United States is not taking a position on “the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.” Those questions, he said, “are up to the parties involved.”
    Irrelevant

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...which was entirely predictable and wouldn't have happened otherwise.

    Meanwhile, there is no gain at all on the other side of the ledger.

    It's the geopolitical equivalent of "fire!" in a crowded theatre.
    So you think that we should let whichever group happens to be the most violent and feral on the planet at any given time tell us that we can't do whatever they feel like even though we not only have a right to do so but a duty to?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So you think that we should let whichever group happens to be the most violent and feral on the planet at any given time tell us that we can't do whatever they feel like even though we not only have a right to do so but a duty to?
    I think we shouldn't undertake actions which cause net harm (in this case, nothing but harm).

    There's certainly no duty to do such things.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    "Jews" is Irrelevant, the State of Israel exists, it controls Jerusalem and it has made Jerusalem it's capital, everyone else can deal with that or try to take it from them.
    This entire global 'discussion' on Jerusalem is custom made for them (Orthodox Jewery)

    Their activism has been always been trying raise the public awareness
    to RECOGNIZE 'Zionism' as a distinct and separate entity APART from themselves.
    That's been their #1 frustration: to distinguish Zionism from Judaism.

    Most Christians from experience do not see/understand the difference.
    I could go into a whole treatise here but I'll just cut to the chase:
    I believe everything from 1948 forward was a man-made 'false' re-gathering..
    and what's emanated from it since is a spiritual Frankenstein.
    It's 'fruit' is rotten.
    What/where they claim as their 'capital' makes no difference to me.
    I honestly don't see it as a 'fulfillment' of anything even CLOSE
    to what the Scriptures describes as that 'event'...
    when the LORD (himself) shall gather his people.

    Bottom line 4 me: It's a political entity not a spiritual one...
    It's just as malevolent as any other government on Earth.
    It could even suffer destruction.... with every Christian's jaw hanging slack.
    but
    not one jot nor tittle will be out of place because of it. Selah.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    This entire global 'discussion' on Jerusalem is custom made for them (Orthodox Jewery)

    Their activism has been always been trying raise the public awareness
    to RECOGNIZE 'Zionism' as a distinct and separate entity APART from themselves.
    That's been their #1 frustration: to distinguish Zionism from Judaism.
    Good for them, I wish them luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    Most Christians from experience do not see/understand the difference.
    I could go into a whole treatise here but I'll just cut to the chase:
    I believe everything from 1948 forward was a man-made 'false' re-gathering..
    and what's emanated from it since is a spiritual Frankenstein.
    It's 'fruit' is rotten.
    What/where they claim as their 'capital' makes no difference to me.
    I honestly don't see it as a 'fulfillment' of anything even CLOSE
    to what the Scriptures describes as that 'event'...
    when the LORD (himself) shall gather his people.
    I think you are close enough to right that where my opinion differs makes no difference, but I do think that GOD allowed the state of Israel to be created perhaps as punishment for the muslims and perhaps to be used as a placeholder for HIS Israel that he will yet bring forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    Bottom line 4 me: It's a political entity not a spiritual one...
    It's just as malevolent as any other government on Earth.
    And just like every other sovereign nation it gets to decide the location of it's capital within the territory it controls and we have to deal with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    It could even suffer destruction.... with every Christian's jaw hanging slack.
    but
    not one jot nor tittle will be out of place because of it. Selah.
    AMEN, GODs work can't be frustrated, if it were necessary he would use biblical level miracles to create HIS Israel in spite of whatever happened to this one, but he may chose to reform this Israel into HIS.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Sunday...

    Western Jerusalem

    1st stabbing incident since Trump announcement, Stab Attack on Israeli guard in central bus station in Western Jerusalem, Palestinian arrested
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQr6LbeU8AEsVo_.jpg:large
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQr6LbPVQAEM3ut.jpg:large

    Lebanon

    Intense clashes breakout in front of US Embassy in Beirut
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...mbassy-beirut/


    Lebanon: US embassy protesters blasted by water cannon and tear gas



    Protesters have clashed with Lebanese security forces outside the US embassy near the capital, Beirut, the latest demonstration against US President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
    https://www.rt.com/news/412627-us-em...mpression=true



    Protesters have clashed with Lebanese security forces outside the US embassy near the capital, Beirut, the latest demonstration against US President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42298782




    Turkey



    BREAKING: Turkey's Erdogan calls Israel 'terrorist state' and 'killer of children' - @i24NEWS_EN



    Lebanon

    The Hill-
    Lebanese foreign minister: Arab nations should take "preemptive measures" against US over Jerusalem decision
    http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...rnd=1512863427


    Lebanon urges Arab League to #sanction #US over #Jerusalem decision
    https://www.rt.com/news/412596-arab-...gbtBLk.twitter



    Arab League foreign ministers hold an emergency meeting in Cairo, Egypt December 9, 2017




    Iraq

    Iraqi FM says Trump Jerusalem decision is “declaration of war” (source??)



    Iran

    Iran: Rouhani lays out conditions for restoration of Saudi ties
    (U can guess what they R )



    Iranian President Hassan Rouhani stated on Sunday that Iran was ready to “re-establish our relations” with Saudi Arabia.
    He made the comments during a presentation of the budget plan for the next Iranian fiscal year, at the Iranian Parliament in Tehran.





    SE Asia/Pacific

    Thousands in Indonesia take to Jakarta streets to protest Trump's decision on Jerusalem
    http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-...salem-decision

    Australia won't follow US in move to Jerusalem
    https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/...move-jerusalem

    Malaysia Says Its Armed Forces Are 'Ready' After Trump's Jerusalem Decision
    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.828035
    Thousands protested outside the U.S. embassy in Indonesia's capital of Jakarta on Sunday, many waving banners saying 'Palestine is in our hearts'

    ========

    Israel’s Netanyahu just arrived to Paris for lunch planned long time ago with France’s Macron. Trump’s decision to move US embassy to Jerusalem is most likely to be discussed today.

    =======

    Bill amendment will allow Israeli PM to go to war without government approval
    http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/...approval-32950

    (what could go wrong?)

    A new initiative by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would allow him to decide on going to war with only the approval of the security cabinet, and not the full cabinet, Channel 2 reported Sunday.
    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Pol...pproval-502339
    Last edited by goldenequity; 12-10-2017 at 09:24 AM.

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