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Thread: Trump Calls Abbas: Tells Trump 'No Palestinian state without East Jerusalem as capital'

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Recognition is not the same as endorsement, Israel conquered Jerusalem like so many other countries conquered various pieces of their territory and they are 100% committed to keeping it and making it their capital, everybody else has to deal with that reality.
    The status quo was recognition; this is endorsement.

    You have 2 choices: remain at peace with Israel and recognize Jerusalem as their capital or declare war and attempt to take Jerusalem away from them.

    I for one think it is not our place to declare war on Israel over Jerusalem.
    Good lord...

    Not endorsing their crimes means going to war with them?

    How much does AIPAC pay?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  3. #32

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    What crime?

    Israel wants Jerusalem to be it's capital why should we object?

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    What crime?
    Stealing the entire country...

    Israel wants Jerusalem to be it's capital why should we object?
    Not objecting was the status quo.

    Positively endorsing it is the new action.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Stealing the entire country...



    Not objecting was the status quo.

    Positively endorsing it is the new action.
    How did they steal anything?

    From what I've seen, they won the seven day war and to the victors go the spoils.

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    How did they steal anything?
    By taking real estate which they didn't own.

    ...is this a riddle or...?

    From what I've seen, they won the seven day war and to the victors go the spoils.
    Ah, ...I'm reminded of the doctrine of the Luftmenschen (proto-bolsheviks): "Whatever the eye covets, let the hand grasp it."

    As Murray noted, a great moral theory....

    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #36

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    Oh well, that's not how it works.

    If any of those who are there have a problem with it, perhaps they should just move out and find someplace else to live.

    Israel isn't going to leave, that's for sure.

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The status quo was recognition; this is endorsement.
    LOL, the status quo was pretending that Jerusalem wasn't their capital, what Trump did was literally to "recognize" Jerusalem as their capital.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Not endorsing their crimes[recognizing their capital] means going to war with them?
    Those are the only two morally defensible positions, either we are GloboCop or it is none of our business.


    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    How much does AIPAC pay?
    They wouldn't like my positions on most other Israel questions, I want to remove all foreign aid and defense agreements from everybody in the region and let them fend for themselves, if GOD wants to protect them because he thinks they are better than the muslims or as part of some long term plan that is his business and if he wants to punish them for their crimes we shouldn't be standing in the way or we will get caught in the fallout.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Stealing the entire country...
    It is much more complex than that, British Jews financed the Arab revolt during WWI with the understanding that they would be given a homeland in the Holy Land, the Arabs and brits double-crossed them and tried to deny it to them for decades, the various sides all committed crimes against one another since then and Israel has managed to come out ahead in the conquest department, which is just as good a claim the their territory as most other countries have.

    Would you have us refuse to recognize the ChiComs as the rulers of mainland China because they "stole the entire country"?



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Not objecting was the status quo.

    Positively endorsing it is the new action.
    Nonsense refusing to accept Jerusalem as their capital is most definitely "objecting" and accepting reality and dealing with it is not the same as endorsing it as the "correct" state of affairs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Those are the only two morally defensible positions, either we are GloboCop or it is none of our business.
    So, not being globocop means taking an action to support the one side (the one which most lobbies us, coincidentally, of course).

    Whereas, doing nothing means being globocop.

    Well, that's some terrific newspeak.

    I, on the other hand, speak English.

    It is much more complex than that, British Jews financed the Arab revolt during WWI with the understanding that they would be given a homeland in the Holy Land, the Arabs and brits double-crossed them and tried to deny it to them for decades, the various sides all committed crimes against one another since then and Israel has managed to come out ahead in the conquest department, which is just as good a claim the their territory as most other countries have.

    Would you have us refuse to recognize the ChiComs as the rulers of mainland China because they "stole the entire country"?
    You've entirely missed the point komrade; the people don't own the land (individuals do).

    No people has ever owned anything, or been robbed of anything; only individuals have owned things or been robbed of things.

    ...and in the Levant, a whole lot of people have been robbed of a whole lot of things (land, in particular).

    It doesn't keep me up at night, mind you, there are plenty of crimes around the word, but I'm not happy about "my" state endorsing them.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    So, not being globocop means taking an action to support the one side (the one which most lobbies us, coincidentally, of course).
    Dealing with their determination of where there capital is doesn't "support" them.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Whereas, doing nothing means being globocop.
    No, going to war to take Jerusalem from them would be being GloboCop, the status quo is morally indefensible, it means we are sticking our nose in to say that it is wrong for them to have Jerusalem as their capital but we are going to support them anyway. (we do support them in all sorts of ways)




    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You've entirely missed the point komrade; the people don't own the land (individuals do).

    No people has ever owned anything, or been robbed of anything; only individuals have owned things or been robbed of things.

    ...and in the Levant, a whole lot of people have been robbed of a whole lot of things (land, in particular).
    If group ownership is irrelevant then the location of the group's capital is also irrelevant and recognizing Jerusalem as that capital does no harm anyway, we did not endorse any particular seizure of any particular property from any individual we just recognized where the group has placed it's seat of power.
    If you are so concerned about the individual thefts then you should be aware of the local Jews that all the Arab countries ejected when Israel declared their independence.

    Either we are GloboCop and should deal out justice in all those individual crimes or we aren't and we should leave them to the local powers and GOD to deal with, but so long as we have peace and diplomatic contact with Israel we have to deal with their control of territory and choice of capital and doing so is no more an endorsement than dealing with the ChiComs is an endorsement of communism or their claim to own Taiwan.




    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It doesn't keep me up at night, mind you, there are plenty of crimes around the word, but I'm not happy about "my" state endorsing them.
    It isn't an endorsement, see all the points about that I made in this post and my posts above.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 12-06-2017 at 11:28 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #40

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    And, I have to say, I'm a little surprised that this too has been compromised with the rise of Der Trumpenfuhrer.

    I really don't know what to make of people shilling for Raytheon Israel on RPF.

    And if they really believe, even worse..
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Dealing with their determination of where there capital is doesn't "support" them.
    Right, it's a just a "determination of where there capital is," like helping them with cartography.



    No, going to war to take Jerusalem from them would be being GloboCop, the status quo is morally indefensible, it means we are sticking our nose in to say that it is wrong for them to have Jerusalem as their capital but we are going to support them anyway. (we do support them in all sorts of ways)
    ...which no one has suggested.

    If group ownership is irrelevant then the location of the group's capital is also irrelevant and recognizing Jerusalem as that capital does no harm anyway, we did not endorse any particular seizure of any particular property from any individual we just recognized where the group has placed it's seat of power.
    If you are so concerned about the individual thefts then you should be aware of the local Jews that all the Arab countries ejected when Israel declared their independence.
    People will die, both Arabs and Jews, because they do care, as a result of this proclamation from Washington D.C.

    Either we are GloboCop and should deal out justice in all those individual crimes or we aren't and we should leave them to the local powers and GOD to deal with, but so long as we have peace and diplomatic contact with Israel we have to deal with their control of territory and choice of capital and doing so is no more an endorsement than dealing with the ChiComs is an endorsement of communism or their claim to own Taiwan.
    What a bunch of $#@!ing horse $#@!.

    You disappoint me.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    And, I have to say, I'm a little surprised that this too has been compromised with the rise of Der Trumpenfuhrer.

    I really don't know what to make of people shilling for Raytheon Israel on RPF.

    And if they really believe, even worse..
    I am the one who is focused on cutting off their military aid while you are flipping your wig about the location of our embassy.

    If you believe that Jerusalem should belong to the Arabs then ignore this distraction and work to end our monetary and military support of Israel so that the Arabs have a fighting chance to take it back.

    Until they do take it back the Israelis have made it their capital and as long as we are at peace with them we have to deal with that.


    And I will repeat what Dr. Paul said on this forum that bears his name:

    During his 2012 campaign for president, former Texas Congressman Ron Paul stressed the issue of national sovereignty when he was asked about the "Jerusalem Question." He replied, “The real issue here is not what America wants, but what does Israel want. If Israel wants their capital to be Jerusalem, then the United States should honor that.”
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Right, it's a just a "determination of where there capital is," like helping them with cartography.

    No they did the cartography, we are just refraining from arguing with them about it.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...which no one has suggested.
    I suggested that it was one of two choices that could be defended based on your beliefs about the moral question involved.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    People will die, both Arabs and Jews, because they do care, as a result of this proclamation from Washington D.C.
    People who wouldn't die if the Arabs didn't riot over a meaningless action, people who would have died in the next riot over whatever excuse the Arabs decided to pick, people who wouldn't have died over this issue if we had recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital when they first made it that decades ago.
    (If anyone at all does die over this that is)
    If we take a perfectly innocent action and the Arabs cause death and destruction in response that is their fault and not ours, by your logic any criminal can control the world by threatening to do horrible things if everybody else doesn't do what he demands and when he does the horrible things it will be the good people who only did what was their right to do that are at fault.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a bunch of $#@!ing horse $#@!.

    You disappoint me.
    Your refutation of my argument is truly staggering
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I am the one who is focused on cutting off their military aid while you are flipping your wig about the location of our embassy.
    And, of course, AIPAC having its greatest PR coup in five decades will surely weaken them viz. lobbying for that sweet taxpayer fundage.

    If you believe that Jerusalem should belong to the Arabs then ignore this distraction and work to end our monetary and military support of Israel so that the Arabs have a fighting chance to take it back.
    ...still missing the point komrad.

    Neither the Jews nor the Arabs own Jerusalem; the individual property owners who own the bits constituting "Jerusalem" own just those bits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    People who wouldn't die if the Arabs didn't riot over a meaningless action...
    (1) Are you aware that the Israeli state has been trying to get Uncle Sugar to recognize Jerusalem as the capital for decades?

    (2) If so, why do you think that is? Because it's meaningless?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    And, of course, AIPAC having its greatest PR coup in five decades will surely weaken them viz. lobbying for that sweet taxpayer fundage.
    I will inoculate Trump against charges of antisemitism if he were to try to cut their money or defense guarantees. (I don't expect that to happen but we are discussing this particular action not his entire Israel policy and it would apply to Dr. Paul if he had been elected POTUS)



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...still missing the point komrad.

    Neither the Jews nor the Arabs own Jerusalem; the individual property owners who own the bits constituting "Jerusalem" own just those bits.
    And the embassy doesn't affect those individual issues, it only affects the group ownership which exists in fact whether or not your theories would put an end to it if you were King of the world.
    The GROUP ownership is THE question that the Arabs and the Israelis care so much about in this matter, therefore it is what we are discussing.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    (1) Are you aware that the Israeli state has been trying to get Uncle Sugar to recognize Jerusalem as the capital for decades?
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    (2) If so, why do you think that is? Because it's meaningless?
    Because they want the same respect as any other sovereign nation gets, they want us to accept that they control Jerusalem and have made it the seat of their government.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I will inoculate Trump against charges of antisemitism if he were to try to cut their money or defense guarantees. (I don't expect that to happen but we are discussing this particular action not his entire Israel policy and it would apply to Dr. Paul if he had been elected POTUS)
    Because they want the same respect as any other sovereign nation gets, they want us to accept that they control Jerusalem and have made it the seat of their government.
    I officially give up: i.e. cease to care.

    Enjoy your permanent war and chaos.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Enjoy your permanent war and chaos.
    That was already the forecast and will be unless Israel surrenders all of the land that the Arabs demand which they will never do.

    We however can evade it if we withdraw our imperial noses from the region.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That was already the forecast and will be unless Israel surrenders all of the land that the Arabs demand which they will never do.
    No, there's another option (what actually existed for most of the last millennium).

    Go find a son of Othman.

    ...but, yes, short of that they're quite $#@!ed.

    We however can evade it if we withdraw our imperial noses from the region.
    Step #1: get said noses deeply involved by siding with the one side (and keep funding them).

    Hoo-ray..
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  20. #49

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    Militants fire 6 rockets from Gaza into southern Israel

    2017-12-08

    GAZA, Dec. 7 (Xinhua) -- Militants fired on Thursday night six makeshift rockets from the Gaza Strip into southern Israel in response to U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, eyewitnesses said.

    The Israeli media reported that at least two rockets landed at empty zones in two towns in southern Israel, causing no damages or injuries.

  21. #50

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    THIS BELONGS HERE:

    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Trump's play kicked US out as mediator in the Peace Talks. This makes the US less relevant in the mideast.

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Israel wants Jerusalem to be it's capital why should we object?
    Israel isn't a sovereign state, nor even a client state as others in our empire: its a mere colony. It has no sovereignty of it's own nor will it ever, until USG decide to quit propping it. Its nice that Dr. Paul believes in national sovereignty, but the truth is Israel can't stand w/o US intervention. That's one of the reasons we're entangled in the ME in the first place.
    They fought the Wars
    They lost.
    They turned friends
    into enemies.
    Who became
    friends of our enemies.
    They stood alone, in splendid isolation,
    And said it was their only choice.

  23. #52

    Default

    The irony is that what the president said does not concede those rights and claims. His recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reflects a reality that it is the seat of Israel’s government and that, for the Jewish state, Jerusalem will always be its capital — there is no other city that could be. For Palestinians, they too no doubt cannot envision any city but Jerusalem as the capital of their state, if and when it emerges from moribund negotiations. The president’s statement does not rule that out: On the contrary, he said that the United States is not taking a position on “the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.” Those questions, he said, “are up to the parties involved.”

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/moving-u-...215434421.html

    The Arabs don't want Israel to have any part of Jerusalem, they don't want Israel to exist, THAT is why they are rioting over this.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #53

    Default

    Trump’s ‘Lord Balfour moment’ is formal recognition the US was never an honest broker

    US Politics Nada Elia on December 7, 2017



    Nada Elia writes, “Trump’s declaration that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel did not kill the two-state solution. That ‘solution’ never had a chance. Palestine, like justice, is indivisible. Trump’s declaration merely pushed aside any pretense at objectivity, neutrality, fairness, or ‘process.'”

    It is “the morning after,” and the world, with few exceptions, is denouncing Trump’s declaration that the US recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. With those few exceptions, politicians globally are making vapid statements about the “dangers” of that declaration, namely that it would lead to an escalation of violence, and jeopardize the “peace process.” There seems to be little recognition of the relentless violence of Israeli settler-colonialism, and the complete violation of the Geneva convention and international law by both Israel and the US president.

  25. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The irony is that what the president said does not concede those rights and claims. His recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reflects a reality that it is the seat of Israel’s government and that, for the Jewish state, Jerusalem will always be its capital — there is no other city that could be. For Palestinians, they too no doubt cannot envision any city but Jerusalem as the capital of their state, if and when it emerges from moribund negotiations. The president’s statement does not rule that out: On the contrary, he said that the United States is not taking a position on “the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.” Those questions, he said, “are up to the parties involved.”

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/moving-u-...215434421.html

    The Arabs don't want Israel to have any part of Jerusalem, they don't want Israel to exist, THAT is why they are rioting over this.
    Dude- learn some history.

    The place now called "Israel" was an invasion of the ME. Jews & Christians lived there peacefully with Muslims until their land was taken by the Brits.

    This is no different than deciding that New England needs to be given back to the Indians & throwing everyone there out with no regard to their rights & property.
    Last edited by Ender; 12-09-2017 at 04:41 PM.
    There is no spoon.

  26. #55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Arabs don't want Israel to have any part of Jerusalem, they don't want Israel to exist, THAT is why they are rioting over this.
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 12-09-2017 at 01:44 PM. Reason: those fucking a-rabs, man
    They fought the Wars
    They lost.
    They turned friends
    into enemies.
    Who became
    friends of our enemies.
    They stood alone, in splendid isolation,
    And said it was their only choice.

  27. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Dude- learn some history.

    The place now called "Israel" was an invasion of the ME. Jews & Christians lived there peacefully with Muslims until their land was taken by the Brits.

    This is no different than deciding that new England needs to be given back to the Indians & throwing everyone there out with no regard to their rights & property.
    1. British Jews financed the Arab revolt against the Turks during WWI with the understanding that the Jews would be given a homeland in Judea, the Brits and Arabs spent decades denying it to them.

    2. Israel has been created and existed for generations now, what the Arabs want is like using force to give the land back to the Injuns.

    3. Israel captured Jerusalem in a war where it was attacked and they have absolutely 0 willingness to give it or any part of it back to the Arabs.

    4. It is not our place to decide such matters, unless or until the Arabs take Jerusalem back the Israelis have made it their capital and it is only right that we treat it as such.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    The fact that some Jews are opposed to some actions of the state of Israel does not change the fact that the Arabs don't want Israel to have any part of Jerusalem, they don't want Israel to exist and THAT is why they are rioting over this.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The fact that some Jews are opposed to some actions of the state of Israel does not change the fact that the Arabs don't want Israel to have any part of Jerusalem, they don't want Israel to exist and THAT is why they are rioting over this.
    That's not what's going on here. You're apologizing for Donald Duck's embassy move to protect slumlord billionaire's venture projects with our military. If there is a hill to die upon for Glorious Leader, this isn't the one.
    They fought the Wars
    They lost.
    They turned friends
    into enemies.
    Who became
    friends of our enemies.
    They stood alone, in splendid isolation,
    And said it was their only choice.

  30. #59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    That's not what's going on here. You're apologizing for Donald Duck's embassy move to protect slumlord billionaire's venture projects with our military. If there is a hill to die upon for Glorious Leader, this isn't the one.
    The embassy move does nothing to protect anything, if the Arabs go to war over this meaningless action it may end up causing destruction or even loss of territory to Israel.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The embassy move does nothing to protect anything, if the Arabs go to war over this meaningless action it may end up causing destruction or even loss of territory to Israel.
    "If the Arabs go to war....."

    So, what is the US doing in the ME, exactly? Bringing peace?
    There is no spoon.

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