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Thread: Breaking: Flynn says Trump directed him to make contact with Russians...

  1. #31



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Clinton was guilty of lying to congress. Flynn guilty of lying to the FBI. It wasn't about whether what they lied about was a crime or not.
    Yes, we all know the charge is "lying".

    And it certainly is about the reason for the fishing expedition. You can tell us it's not important when they come to your door to ask you a few questions.

    "Mr. Zippy, have you ever posted subversive information on the internet?"
    "Oh no, not me. Never."
    "Well, we have proof that you did, off to the gulag with you."

    or

    "Mr. Zippy, have you evaded taxes?"
    "Why no, I'm good comrade, always a dutiful citizen."
    "We have information to the contrary. We have at least 100 instances where you did not pay the appropriate sales taxes. Each instance is punishable by not less than 1 year in jail and a $100,000 fine. Off to prison with you."
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  5. #33
    While initial reporting is portraying Flynn’s guilty plea as a major breakthrough in Mueller’s investigation of potential Trump-campaign collusion with the Russian regime, I suspect the opposite is true.
    Speculation that Flynn is now cooperating in Mueller’s investigation stirred in recent days due to reports that Flynn had pulled out of a joint defense agreement (or “common interest” arrangement) to share information with other subjects of the investigation. As an ethical matter, it is inappropriate for an attorney whose client is cooperating with the government (or having negotiations toward that end) to continue strategizing with, and having quasi-privileged communications with, other subjects of the investigation and their counsel.
    Nevertheless, as I explained in connection with George Papadopoulos (who also pled guilty in Mueller’s investigation for lying to the FBI), when a prosecutor has a cooperator who was an accomplice in a major criminal scheme, the cooperator is made to plead guilty to the scheme. This is critical because it proves the existence of the scheme. In his guilty-plea allocution (the part of a plea proceeding in which the defendant admits what he did that makes him guilty), the accomplice explains the scheme and the actions taken by himself and his co-conspirators to carry it out. This goes a long way toward proving the case against all of the subjects of the investigation.
    That is not happening in Flynn’s situation. Instead, like Papadopoulos, he is being permitted to plead guilty to a mere process crime. A breaking report from ABC News indicates that Flynn is prepared to testify that Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians — initially to lay the groundwork for mutual efforts against ISIS in Syria. That, however, is exactly the sort of thing the incoming national-security adviser is supposed to do in a transition phase between administrations. If it were part of the basis for a “collusion” case arising out of Russia’s election meddling, then Flynn would not be pleading guilty to a process crime — he’d be pleading guilty to an espionage conspiracy.
    Understand: If Flynn’s conversations with the Russian ambassador had evinced the existence of a quid pro quo collusion arrangement — that the Trump administration would ease or eliminate sanctions on Russia as a payback for Russia’s cyber-espionage against the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic party — it would have been completely appropriate, even urgently necessary, for the Obama Justice Department to investigate Flynn. But if that had happened, Mueller would not be permitting Flynn to settle the case with a single count of lying to FBI agents. Instead, we would be looking at a major conspiracy indictment, and Flynn would be made to plead to far more serious offenses if he wanted a deal — cooperation in exchange for sentencing leniency.
    To the contrary, for all the furor, we have a small-potatoes plea in Flynn’s case — just as we did in Papadopoulos’s case, despite extensive “collusion” evidence. Meanwhile, the only major case Mueller has brought, against former Trump-campaign chairman Paul Manafort and an associate, has nothing to do with the 2016 election. It is becoming increasingly palpable that, whatever “collusion” means, there was no actionable, conspiratorial complicity by the Trump campaign in the Kremlin’s machinations.

    More at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-investigation
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

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    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

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    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    I still have no idea what law was broken speaking to a Russian official by an incoming administration. For the FBI to be investigating legal activity is itself a miscarriage of justice.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Wow. So talking to people in a foreign nation is illegal now?

    You know you have gone full Marxist revolution/purge when new "laws" are pulled right out of the air, they are applied ex post facto and some animals are more equal than others.
    It's rather ironic that they're pushing the Logan Act angle (since Trump was already President-elect) yet many of our politicos violate the Logan Act constantly by attending Bilderberg meetings and the like and never is an eye batted.

    The PPT sure stepped in and put a floor under the stock market. I've never seen a 200 point drop on the Dow happen in a millisecond when the headline hit the newswires. Looks like the bumpy ride is really about to start.


    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    I still have no idea what law was broken speaking to a Russian official by an incoming administration. For the FBI to be investigating legal activity is itself a miscarriage of justice.
    Seems that it's the Logan Act that is in question.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    It's rather ironic that they're pushing the Logan Act angle (since Trump was already President-elect) yet many of our politicos violate the Logan Act constantly by attending Bilderberg meetings and the like and never is an eye batted.

    The PPT sure stepped in and put a floor under the stock market. I've never seen a 200 point drop on the Dow happen in a millisecond when the headline hit the newswires. Looks like the bumpy ride is really about to start.




    Seems that it's the Logan Act that is in question.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
    I know the Logan Act. This is common activity for an incoming administration, to establish relationships with foreign officials. I read that in 2009 there was an Obama campaign official establishing relationships in Moscow a few weeks before the general election. We know from the Podesta email leaks that the Hillary Campaign was in contact with Chinese officials to setup a meeting with their president.

    Right FKING NOW, FORMER president Obama is travelling overseas and meeting with President Xi and other world leaders! Where's the Logan Act on that!!!!!!!
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  9. #37
    Observation and takeaways

    • The fact that Flynn spoke with the Russians in December, well after the election, has been known since February.
    • Mueller’s “Statement of Offense” establishes is that there wasn’t an existing backchannel between the Trump campaign and Russia – at least through Flynn, as it pertains to pre-election collusion.
    • It’s perfectly reasonable to expect an incoming President to instruct his incoming National Security Advisor to establish a dialogue with a country like Russia over recent and contentious sanctions, as well as fighting ISIS in Syria.
    • If Flynn’s contact with Russia was related to “collusion” in regards to election meddling, he would be pleading guilty to an espionage conspiracy, not the “process crime” of lying to the FBI..
    • If Flynn were to now drop some new bombshell about greater Russian collusion, he would have lied to the FBI twice.




    More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...tion-collusion
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #38
    Worse still, the indictment against Flynn wouldn’t have even been handed down decades ago. You see, there used to be this thing called the “exculpatory no.” Basically it means that if someone denied wrongdoing to the FBI, that denial could not be charged as a crime itself, especially when the person being questioned had not been read their right to remain silent. The “exculpatory no” was firmly rooted in the Fifth Amendment’s protection against forced self-incrimination before the Supreme Court took it away.

    https://www.infowars.com/flynn-charg...-remains-free/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    Flynn Charged With Lying to FBI, Clapper Still Free After Committing Clear Perjury

    During testimony in 2013 in front of a congressional inquiry, Clapper was asked by Senator Ron Wyden if the NSA was collecting “any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans.”
    “No, sir,” responded Clapper.
    Senator Wyden asked “It does not?”
    Director Clapper responded “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly.”
    This was proven to be completely fraudulent three months later when whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed that the NSA was deliberately collecting tens of millions of Americans’ phone call records as well as browsing histories, chat logs, email usage, as well as their physical locations.
    Clapper would have had a level of security clearance to know that this was taking place. He committed clear perjury by lying under oath, yet faced no consequences at all.

    Clapper was also caught in a brazen lie when he denied that any surveillance targeting people linked to the Trump administration had taken place.
    During a March 2017 appearance on Meet the Press with Chuck Todd, Clapper asserted that, “There was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president elect at the time, or as a candidate, or against his campaign.”
    This was proven to be false by the revelation that Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort had been wiretapped both before and after the election.
    Clapper himself partially admitted this during a September 2017 appearance on CNN when he told Don Lemon it was “conceivable” President Trump’s conversations could have been picked up during the course of the surveillance.
    “Now we learn that there was, in fact, a FISA court order and it came from the FBI and Clapper, in his own words, claimed he would have known about that,” reported Mediaite. “And he denied it, unequivocally. Maybe he forgot all about the FISA order wiretapping Paul Manafort while he was in direct contact with Trump in his campaign and after the election.”

    More at: https://www.infowars.com/flynn-charg...clear-perjury/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #40
    Guess this makes Lois Lerner the smartest Constitutional scholar in recent memory...

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    How is it testifying against someone when they didn't break the law?

    The fake news media is so $#@!ing stupid.
    My thoughts exactly. Why can't someone contact a Russian?

  15. #42


    Kushner Is Said to Have Ordered Flynn to Contact Russia

    Now that the retired general has pleaded guilty, the president's son-in-law could be one of the next dominoes to fall.

    December 1, 2017
    Two former officials with the Trump transition team who worked closely with Flynn say that during the last days of the Obama administration, the retired general was instructed to contact foreign ambassadors and foreign ministers of countries on the U.N. Security Council, ahead of a vote condemning Israeli settlements. Flynn was told to try to get them to delay that vote until after Barack Obama had left office, or oppose the resolution altogether.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...contact-russia

    Following news few days ago may have been realted to above developments:

    "Donald Trump Wants Ivanka and Jared Kushner to Move Back Home to NYC"


  16. #43
    Jan2017
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Today, Michael Flynn, a former National Security Advisor at the White House for 25 days during the Trump Administration,
    and a former Obama administration official, entered a guilty plea to a single count of making a false statement to the FBI.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    This is the dumbest investigation ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    That was quick, Newsweek has floated the I-word question already:

    Will Trump Be Impeached Based on Michael Flynn’s Russia Revelations?
    But rather, will Trump pardon the former Obama administration official Michael Flynn (?) . . .
    maybe undeclared - but known to be - a foreign agent during tenure working for the 44th President -
    and the perfect set-up man for the Committee to Re-elect a Democrat/Clinton machine, eh ?

    CNN: White House claims Obama admin approved Flynn calls with Russian ambassador
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...s-with-russian

    So much in the dumpster out back of the FBI for Mueller to go through still . . .



    .
    Last edited by Jan2017; 12-02-2017 at 09:52 AM.

  17. #44
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    I'm no fan of Trump but you have to admit when a report is so sloppily and irresponsibly, it gives more credence to claims of fake news.
    Last edited by KEEF; 12-02-2017 at 12:19 PM.

  18. #45

    How 'bout those Podesta emails?

    Soooooo...

    quote from 11/09/15:
    "Ambassador Cui Tiankai would like to have a meeting with Mr. Podesta at his earliest convenience. We don't know if he has a scheduler now, so could you please help us convey this meeting request? Amb. Cui would like to talk about the China-U.S. relations and other issues of mutual interest." https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/14145
    quote from 01/07/16:
    "Chinese Ambassador Cui invited me over to the residence Tuesday for a coffee and to make a request. He wants to have an informal, private, off the record get together with a few of us to discuss the next year and the current state of US-China affairs."
    https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/44291

  19. #46
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-age...-mueller-team/

    FBI agent suspected of sending anti-Trump texts removed from Mueller team

    Special Counsel Robert Mueller removed a top FBI agent assigned to the investigation into Russian election meddling and any ties to Trump associates after learning of allegations that the agent had exchanged messages with another member of Mueller's team that were anti-Trump in nature.

    The New York Times and Washington Post both published stories Saturday reporting the removal of Peter Strzok from the investigation. In a rare public statement Saturday, the special counsel's office confirmed Strzok was removed from the probe. The messages were reportedly discovered by the inspector general of the Justice Department during the course of an investigation into the FBI's handling of the Hillary Clinton email probe.

    As deputy head of counterintelligence at the FBI, Strzok played a pivotal role in the investigation into Clinton's use of a private email server while she was secretary of state. Lisa Page, the other FBI agent involved in the communications, left the special counsel's office before it was aware of the accusations, according to the special counsel's office.

    "Immediately upon learning of the allegations, the Special Counsel's Office removed Peter Strzok from the investigation," said Peter Carr, spokesman for the special counsel's office, in a statement to CBS News. "Lisa Page completed her brief detail and had returned to the FBI weeks before our office was aware of the allegations."
    More at link.

  20. #47

    ABC Issues Retraction of its Story

    ABC News Issues a major retraction and correction:

    During a live Special Report, ABC News reported that a confidant of Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn said Flynn was prepared to testify that then-candidate Donald Trump instructed him to contact Russian officials during the campaign.

    That source later clarified that during the campaign, Trump assigned Flynn and a small circle of other senior advisers to find ways to repair relations with Russia and other hot spots.

    It was shortly after the election, that President-elect Trump directed Flynn to contact Russian officials on topics that included working jointly against ISIS.
    Last edited by AZJoe; 12-02-2017 at 03:41 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  21. #48
    This "russiagate" media narrative, most recently promulgated by ABC, is the most absurd of bizarro world absurdities.

    So what if Flynn opened diplomatic dialogue with Russians.

    Candidate Trump opened dialogue with the President of Mexico, and met in private. Where is the Mexicogate media circus?
    Candidate Hillary and her staff had massive communications with the Saudis. Why is there no MSM Saudigate?
    Both candidates and their staffs made direct contact with Israel and met in private meetings, as well as candidates Obama, prior Hillary, McCain and virtually most major candidates for the president as well as many senators going back a couple decades. Heck, Israel and Saudi both have lobbying organizations that directly fund campaigns and lawmaking. Why is there no Israelgate?

    If you read the actual statement of offense against Flynn however, the only wrongdoing Flynn is accused of is lying to the FBI, not because of talking to Russians.
    Last edited by AZJoe; 12-02-2017 at 03:39 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.



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  23. #49
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    Typical Israeli piece of garbage. Jared really reinforces the sterotype.


  24. #50
    From Caitlin Johnstone:

    If you read the actual Statement of Offense against Flynn, though, there’s nothing in there that lends any weight to the Russiagate narrative. Flynn did indeed lie to the FBI, which is a thought crime … What he lied about was the fact that he’d successfully asked the Russians through Kislyak not to overreact to the sanctions the outgoing Obama administration had slammed on them in December, an interaction which according to former Ambassador to Russia Jack Matlock would have been standard practice.

    As Stephen Cohen wrote in The Nation earlier this year:

    Communications, including meetings, between representatives of US presidents-elect and foreign capitals, particularly Moscow, have been “common practice” over the years, according to Jack Matlock, ambassador to Russia for Presidents Reagan and Bush; Matlock had previously arranged meetings in Moscow for President-elect Carter’s transition team. Moreover, Obama’s own Russia adviser, Michael McFaul, told The Washington Post recently that he visited Moscow in 2008, even before that year’s election, for talks with Russian officials. …

    So this was Flynn trying to influence the Russians, not the other way around, which we see again in part four of the Statement of Offense. Flynn requested that the Russians help kill a UN resolution on behalf of Israel, and that Russia refused, which is harmful to the Russian collusion narrative but says a lot about collusion with Israel (not that anyone will care). Reportedly Flynn was instructed to make this request of “every member” of the UN Security Council, not just Russia. …

    Since none of this is itself damning, Russiagaters have been focusing on the speculation that Mueller would have cut a plea deal with Flynn in order to receive devastating testimony against the Trump administration. From what we’ve learned so far, though, Flynn is expected to testify that Trump had asked him to help orchestrate a collaboration with Russia in fighting ISIS in Syria, an agenda Trump has openly espoused since long before the election.

    Then there’s this interesting analysis published in the National Review

    More
    Last edited by AZJoe; 12-02-2017 at 03:15 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  25. #51
    Asked at the news conference about reports that members of the Trump staff were in contact with Russia during the campaign, Trump said, "Nobody that I know of."
    “It never happened,” Hicks says. “There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mpaign-denials

  26. #52
    Even the Leftist Jacobin get its:
    Why Is There No Saudigate?

    For decades, the DC establishment has been on the payroll of a foreign terror state. But because it's Saudi Arabia, you won't hear a peep. …

    Imagine if Russia — instead of doing what it has been accused of doing last year — had funded and facilitated an attack on US soil that killed thousandds of Americans. Then imagine that US policymakers, rather than punish the Kremlin by cutting diplomatic ties, imposing sanctions, seeking legal recourse, or all of the above, covered up its involvement in the attack and continued to treat it as a loyal ally.

    Imagine if the president who presided over that attack had decades of intimate personal and financial ties to members of the Russian elite and subsequently spirited dozens of Russian nationals out of the country before law enforcement could interrogate them.

    Imagine if, despite full knowledge of the Kremlin’s once and ongoing anti-American activities, successive presidents heaped praise on Russia’s authoritarian government, sold it weapons, and made regular pilgrimages to wine and dine with its leaders.

    Imagine if an army of Russian lobbyists operated on Capitol Hill to ensure Washington’s pro-Kremlin line, eventually pressuring American leadership into actively assisting it in carrying out one of this decade’s worst war crimes.

    Imagine if, at the end of all this, Donald Trump ran for president on an explicitly anti-Russia line, only to shamelessly reverse himself once elected, embrace the Russian leadership, and pursue policies that benefited them even more enthusiastically than his predecessors had.

    It’s a pretty scary thought. Thankfully, in the real world, none of this applies to Russia. It does, however, perfectly describe Saudi Arabia. …

    Since Trump became president, his administration has widened sanctions against Russia; maintained its rhetorical and material support of Ukraine (and publicly mused about sending Ukraine weapons … ; bombed Russia’s ally, Syria; shot down a Syrian warplane, which led to an escalating series of threats between the United States and Russia; and forced state-funded Russian news channel RT to register as a foreign agent

    Now compare this to Trump’s relationship with Saudi Arabia. On the campaign trail, Trump was a strident anti-Saudi critic. … Once president, however, Trump performed a neat U-turn. He chose [Saudi Arabia] … to be the site of his first foreign trip as president … he happily took part in a sword dance, touched a glowing orb, and bowed his head to receive a medal from the king, … He then lavished the country with praise in a major speech in Riyadh … He dutifully (and ludicrously) kept Saudi Arabia off his already ludicrous travel ban, … He’s ramped up Obama’s policy of facilitating Saudi war crimes in Yemen and shows every sign of continuing to sell them billions of dollars’ worth of weapons. Most recently, he cheered on the crown prince’s consolidation of power. …

    Trump has vast business interests in Saudi Arabia, including eight companies tied to hotel interests … Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates pledged a combined $100 million to his daughter’s fund … The country owns the forty-fifth floor of Trump World Tower, and one of Trump’s appointees is even a registered agent for Saudi Arabia.

    In other words, there is far more evidence that Trump is a Saudi puppet than a Russian one. But you won’t hear Democrats level this accusation. How can they, when they know any criticism of ties to Saudi Arabia would be tantamount to criticizing their own party’s foreign policy establishment? …

    it remains dumbfounding that the alleged Russian collusion is treated as an apocalyptic event while similar and far more insidious interference from Saudi Arabia over the course of decades is met with a collective shrug.

    Over three decades, Saudi Arabia has successfully ingratiated itself at the highest levels of power in the United States. … provided favor after favor to American officials, … donated a steady stream of many millions of dollars to a bipartisan group of policymakers, including two of the country’s foremost political dynasties …

    It’s done all this while openly spreading fundamentalist ideology and assisting extremists in carrying out attacks on Americans …

    More
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Typical Israeli piece of garbage. Jared really reinforces the sterotype.
    Jared was born in New Jersey. Did you mean to use a different term?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    I know the Logan Act. This is common activity for an incoming administration, to establish relationships with foreign officials. I read that in 2009 there was an Obama campaign official establishing relationships in Moscow a few weeks before the general election. We know from the Podesta email leaks that the Hillary Campaign was in contact with Chinese officials to setup a meeting with their president.

    Right FKING NOW, FORMER president Obama is travelling overseas and meeting with President Xi and other world leaders! Where's the Logan Act on that!!!!!!!
    Yeah, like I said, violating the Logan Act is common place. So it begs the question of what is really going on here? I know that Trump is not a "threat" to the establishment and anyone that argues otherwise is ignorant of the history and the current administration's composition. Why does the Logan Act matter now? And now ABC is lightly walking back yesterday's report but that could have been as simple as someone higher up telling them to STFU, instead of the story actually being inaccurate. It's all such a cf that one must wonder why?

    I wasn't sure that the Logan Act of 1799 itself was still enforceable since pretty much no court cases or statutes put in effect before the 1930's is even allowed in court anymore, since the court system was converted into admiralty courts after the 1930 US bankruptcy, making prior law inadmissible. Needs research.


    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    This "russiagate" media narrative, most recently promulgated by ABC, is the most absurd of bizarro world absurdities.

    So what if Flynn opened diplomatic dialogue with Russians.

    Candidate Trump opened dialogue with the President of Mexico, and met in private. Where is the Mexicogate media circus?
    Candidate Hillary and her staff had massive communications with the Saudis. Why is there no MSM Saudigate?
    Both candidates and their staffs made direct contact with Israel and met in private meetings, as well as candidates Obama, prior Hillary, McCain and virtually most major candidates for the president as well as many senators going back a couple decades. Heck, Israel and Saudi both have lobbying organizations that directly fund campaigns and lawmaking. Why is there no Israelgate?

    If you read the actual statement of offense against Flynn however, the only wrongdoing Flynn is accused of is lying to the FBI, not because of talking to Russians.
    My understanding of the Logan Act is that a violation is triggered when there is some official dispute between the US govt and the other country's govt and someone in a capacity as a "US official" steps out to negotiate with an official of that country without authorization.

    Unless there is a dispute between the US and Mexico or the US and Saudi Arabia or the US and Israel the Logan Act doesn't apply. Due to the Syria situation at that time, a dispute between the US and Russia, however, could be asserted.
    Last edited by devil21; 12-02-2017 at 04:33 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Yeah, like I said, violating the Logan Act is common place. So it begs the question of what is really going on here? I know that Trump is not a "threat" to the establishment and anyone that argues otherwise is ignorant of the history and the current administration's composition. Why does the Logan Act matter now? And now ABC is lightly walking back yesterday's report but that could have been as simple as someone higher up telling them to STFU, instead of the story actually being inaccurate. It's all such a cf that one must wonder why?

    I wasn't sure that the Logan Act of 1799 itself was still enforceable since pretty much no court cases or statutes put in effect before the 1930's is even allowed in court anymore, since the court system was converted into admiralty courts after the 1930 US bankruptcy, making prior law inadmissible. Needs research.
    Simply meeting with a foreign government official is not a violation of the Logan Act.

    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict....com/Logan+Act

    Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

    This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Simply meeting with a foreign government official is not a violation of the Logan Act.

    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict....com/Logan+Act
    Yeah thanks Zip. I added some about that distinction 2 minutes before you posted this.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    ABC News Issues a major retraction and correction:
    During a live Special Report, ABC News reported that a confidant of Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn said Flynn was prepared to testify that then-candidate Donald Trump instructed him to contact Russian officials during the campaign.

    That source later clarified that during the campaign, Trump assigned Flynn and a small circle of other senior advisers to find ways to repair relations with Russia and other hot spots.

    It was shortly after the election, that President-elect Trump directed Flynn to contact Russian officials on topics that included working jointly against ISIS.
    MSM whipping up controversy over Russiagate, when they could be investigating Trump, Clinton, and peers' two degrees of separation from crime bosses and bagmen. $#@!, after Menendez, how many politicians are actually illicit bagmen?

  33. #58
    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...nn-report.html

    ABC News announced Saturday that Chief Investigative Correspondent Brian Ross would be suspended for four weeks without pay over a botched "exclusive" about former national security adviser Michael Flynn.
    Ross reported that Flynn would testify that Donald Trump had ordered him to make contact with Russians about foreign policy while he was still a candidate. The report raised the specter of Trump's impeachment and sent the stock market plummeting.

    Later in the day, ABC issued a "clarification" to Ross's report, saying that Trump's alleged directive came after he'd been elected president. Ross himself appeared on "World News Tonight," several hours after the initial report, to clarify his error.

  34. #59
    Obama's State Department knew of, had "no problem" with Trump administration speaking to foreign dignitaries before Trump was sworn in:




  35. #60

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