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Thread: Russian Orthodox Church suggests tsar's death was a Jewish 'ritual murder'

  1. #1

    Russian Orthodox Church suggests tsar's death was a Jewish 'ritual murder'

    Authorities will investigate an anti-semitic theory that the 1918 killing of Tsar Nicholas II was a “ritual murder” following comments by a bishop close to Vladimir Putin.
    Bishop Tikhon Shevkunov, who is heading a Russian Orthodox Church commission investigating the execution of the Romanov family by firing squad in Yekaterinburg, said at a conference on Monday that many members of the commission believe it was a ritual murder that held special significance for Bolshevik commander Yakov Yurovsky and his men.
    “Ritual murder” has in the past referred to a theory that the last emperor was the victim of a Jewish conspiracy, as Mr Yurovsky was of Jewish heritage.
    Russia's investigative committee said it would look into the claim by Mr Shevkunov, who is reputed to be Mr Putin's confessor.
    The announcement drew an outcry from Jewish groups.

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-o...210509459.html
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  3. #2
    The theory about the writing on the wall has been around for a long time.

    I've never found any primary source to confirm it, just one WN blog linking to another and back again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    a bishop close to Vladimir Putin... Bishop Tikhon Shevkunov
    He's an interesting character: a monarchist (yay), but also a conservative in the 19th century, anti-capitalist sense (boo).

  4. #3
    This seems like as good a place as any for a general comment about the history of anti-Semitism:

    Prior to the 1930s, Christian anti-Semitism came in two flavors: (a) the genteel anti-Semitism of the political elites ("Jeeves, be sure to misplace Herr Goldstein's invitation on the way to the post office.."), and (b) the violent anti-Semitism of the masses ("My cow's not milking because that Jew put a spell on it, getim!"). Pogroms were spontaneous actions by the local people, which it was the task of the political elites to suppress (not because they particularly liked Jews, but because they didn't like dead taxpayers). The NAZIs were an extreme aberration in European history, not in the sense that that kind of anti-Semitism had not previously existed, but in the sense that it had not existed in the halls of power. You can see the same phenomenon in many other times and places, where other folk hatreds were given free reign via the political empowerment of the masses.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-29-2017 at 04:48 PM.

  5. #4
    I simply can't imagine that someone so politically connected to Putin as to be his confessor would have any reasons to see a wild conspiracy. Especially when the KGB man would probably love having a tsar's power himself.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    . Especially when the KGB man would probably love having a tsar's power himself.
    Just wondering, what limits are there on Putins power? Both legally and in practice?

  7. #6
    If I was Russian in Russia I'd care maybe.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    (b) the violent anti-Semitism of the masses ("My cow's not milking because that Jew put a spell on it, getim!").
    lol, I'm sure..
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    This seems like as good a place as any for a general comment about the history of anti-Semitism:



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Just wondering, what limits are there on Putins power? Both legally and in practice?
    He's still a long way from being a Tsar.

    You might think of it as a spectrum:

    -typical leader of majority/plurality party (Macron, Merkel)
    -strong leader of dominant party (Putin, FDR)
    -strong leader of monopoly party (Xi Jinping)
    -absolute leader of monopoly party (Stalin)
    -populist dictator (Napoleon)
    -monarch

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    I simply can't imagine that someone so politically connected to Putin as to be his confessor would have any reasons to see a wild conspiracy. Especially when the KGB man would probably love having a tsar's power himself.
    Why would you think his father confessor is politically connected? That in itself is a wild conspiracy theory. The Russian Federation isn't theocratic. It's as silly as saying JFK's priest had ties to TPTB in Murica.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  13. #11

  14. #12
    What's funny about this theory is that most of the people who promote it are basically sympathetic to the bolshevik programme.

    "Those dirty Jews, killed the Tsar and created a totalitarian hellscape based on idiotic economic principles, ...They stole our idea!"

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Why would you think his father confessor is politically connected? That in itself is a wild conspiracy theory. The Russian Federation isn't theocratic. It's as silly as saying JFK's priest had ties to TPTB in Murica.
    No wild conspiracy. Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church have a very tight relationship with one another. This is hardly a secret.

    http://archive.sltrib.com/article.ph...77&itype=CMSID

    It is therefore not crazy to think that his confessor acts as a connection between him and the church. Such a role is always highly political and sometimes very powerful.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    He's still a long way from being a Tsar.

    You might think of it as a spectrum:

    -typical leader of majority/plurality party (Macron, Merkel)
    -strong leader of dominant party (Putin, FDR)
    -strong leader of monopoly party (Xi Jinping)
    -absolute leader of monopoly party (Stalin)
    -populist dictator (Napoleon)
    -monarch
    Napoleon was also a monarch, he made that jump from dictator to king by establishing the only thing that is different between the two- rites/traditions of succession.

  17. #15
    Notice that the bishop used the phrase "ritual murder" without specifying Jewish. And the author of the article just added that little word into the headline and casually mentions in the article that he didn't actually get that from the words of the bishop himself.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Just wondering, what limits are there on Putins power? Both legally and in practice?
    Officially? The same as any President. Unofficially? Well, he completely reorganized the Russian Federation and military, placing people loyal to and beholden to him in control of the state and military. And his political opponents always seem to end up in prison or dead.



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  20. #17
    There aren't any Romanovs but there should be cadet families a new dynasty can be made from:
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...lution-classes

    And there's no scheme here to crown Putin the Eternal Tzar, as much as Americans NEED to feel like we're on the cusp of a great, millenarian showdown at high noon. (Sorry, maybe its time to hang up the white hat.) The sooner the West let go of desert superstitions, like that whole chosen race thing, the better for all people everywhere. We can't even begin to consider approaching equity for all men everywhere, as long as there are people who believe, and to the death of others, they are of the Chosen Race and entitled to the kisses of every people under their heels.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Napoleon was also a monarch, he made that jump from dictator to king by establishing the only thing that is different between the two- rites/traditions of succession.
    Only on paper. The difference between monarchy and dictatorship doesn't lie in ritual but in how secure (and therefore how immune from outside influence) the ruler is. Had Napoleon remained in power longer, especially during peacetime (war props up insecure regimes) it would have become apparent that he was much more reliant on popular opinion than the Bourbons had been. The line between dictator and monarch may be a little fuzzy, but a key sign that a dictatorship has matured into a monarchy is an orderly transition of power upon the death of the ruler. Napoleon was ousted long before that had a chance to happen.

    I might add that many rulers conventionally labelled "kings" were functionally dictators, in virtue of being insecure. The "monarchies" that emerged in the European dark ages began as military dictatorships and only gradually evolved into monarchies. They didn't acquire the legitimacy and security of Roman emperors (such as it was) overnight, just as Napoleon couldn't instantly assume the position of his Bourbon predecessor. "Monarchy is indeed a government which requires a high degree of civilization for its full development (Benjamin Disraeli)." What was destroyed in 1789 or 1917 took centuries to build and couldn't be easily replaced.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-30-2017 at 03:57 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Notice that the bishop used the phrase "ritual murder" without specifying Jewish. And the author of the article just added that little word into the headline and casually mentions in the article that he didn't actually get that from the words of the bishop himself.
    Are you familiar with the writing on the wall story? Supposedly, there was Hebrew writing on the wall of the room where the Tsar and his family were murdered, which referred to the ritual slaughter of animals (or something along those lines, I forget the details). This story has been floating around (totally unsourced, as I mentioned) for a long time. I can't imagine what the Bishop would be referencing if not this.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Only on paper. The difference between monarchy and dictatorship doesn't lie in ritual but in how secure (and therefore how immune from outside influence) the ruler is. Had Napoleon remained in power longer, especially during peacetime (war props up insecure regimes) it would have become apparent that he was much more reliant on popular opinion than the Bourbons had been. The line between dictator and monarch may be a little fuzzy, but a key sign that a dictatorship has matured into a monarchy is an orderly transition of power upon the death of the ruler. Napoleon was ousted long before that had a chance to happen.

    I might add that many rulers conventionally labelled "kings" were functionally dictators, in virtue of being insecure. The "monarchies" that emerged in the European dark ages began as military dictatorships and only gradually evolved into monarchies. They didn't acquire the legitimacy and security of Roman emperors (such as it was) overnight, just as Napoleon couldn't instantly assume the position of his Bourbon predecessor. "Monarchy is indeed a government which requires a high degree of civilization for its full development (Benjamin Disraeli)." What was destroyed in 1789 or 1917 took centuries to build and couldn't be easily replaced.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to r3volution 3.0 again.
    Sorry, bro. Solid post, tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    No wild conspiracy. Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church have a very tight relationship with one another. This is hardly a secret.

    http://archive.sltrib.com/article.ph...77&itype=CMSID

    It is therefore not crazy to think that his confessor acts as a connection between him and the church. Such a role is always highly political and sometimes very powerful.
    The Russian Church and Russia have a tight relationship with each other. You can't look at the situation from an Amero-centric view and understand it in its context. Thierry Meyssam has a farily good tl;dr explanation in his article today: "In order to build a modern Russia, Tsarina Catherine II decided to make its capital, Saint Petersburg, the world’s leading cultural centre. She rooted her country in its basic cultural foundations of Orthodox Christianity, developed the use of the French language, and invited the greatest European intellectuals and artists to her court, whether they were Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox, even Muslim.
    Aware that the retreat of Christianity in the Middle East before the intolerance of the Ottoman Empire threatened a cultural loss for Orthodoxy, and therefore Russia, she entered into war with the Sultan. This dream was thwarted by the French and British during the Crimean war (1853) and even more so by the Bolsheviks, who rejected the place of Orthodoxy in Russia. In 1918, they played the game of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk on behalf of arms dealer Alexandre Parvus, Lenin’s sponsor.The dream of Catherine the Great had to wait until 2017 to begin to be realised. President Putin also annexed Crimea and delivered Syria, not from the Ottoman Empire, but from the jihadists, supervised by France, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Russia became the protecting power of all populations, whatever their religion, from the banks of the Nile to the Alborz mountains."

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/...ladimir-putin/
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 11-30-2017 at 05:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  25. #22
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