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Thread: Why Rand will vote FOR the tax-cut bill

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    It isn't true they have the same net effect on the deficit. Growing the deficit through smart tax policy is perfectly consistent with fiscal conservatism if it creates more growth than you otherwise would have had. Increased government spending takes people away from the private sector which is the productive sector. Lower productivity will mean lower growth. Increasing the deficit through government spending will yield a greater deficit over time due to slower growth than the tax cuts.,
    The actions (spending or borrowing) do have the same impact on the deficit. Spend $100 more, be $100 more in debt. Earn $100 less while spending the same amount, be $100 more in debt. They may, however, have different impacts on the economy which you note.

    Growing the deficit through smart tax policy is perfectly consistent with fiscal conservatism if it creates more growth than you otherwise would have had.
    One could use the same argument to favor more government spending- "as long as it leads to more economic growth than expected".

    Just so we are clearer on terms, what would you consider "fiscally conservative"? Is it "fiscally conservative" to pay your bills rather than borrowing money? Or is it just "lower taxes"? Or just "smaller government"?

    You seem to be arguing that debt does not matter.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-27-2017 at 04:49 PM.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #32

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    TOr just "smaller government"?

    You seem to be arguing that debt does not matter.
    Smaller gov't is my idea of a fiscal conservative. Increased spending met with increased taxes is not fiscal conservatism.

    Deficits don't matter. It was the one thing Dick Cheney got right.

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Smaller gov't is my idea of a fiscal conservative. Increased spending met with increased taxes is not fiscal conservatism.

    Deficits don't matter. It was the one thing Dick Cheney got right.
    Cheney added a lot to the debt, debt does matter, but taxes won't solve the debt problem, its apples and oranges.

  6. #35

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    Debt crowds out other borrowing- raising interest rates and the inflation rate. Cutting taxes does nothing about the bigger problem which is government spending. Ron Paul said he would love to get rid of the income tax but you have to deal with the spending problem first.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    more like fake money
    http://www.bankrate.com/lifestyle/ce...ily-net-worth/

    The Rothschild family’s net worth is $400 billion

    How the Rothschild family’s net worth was built

    Born in Germany in the 1700s, Mayer Amschel Rothschild began the business dealings that eventually made the Rothschild family a financial powerhouse. He got his start as an apprentice under Wolf Jacob Oppenheimer, a financier whose firm specialized in extending credit to royalty and participating in international trade. Oppenheimer gave Mayer Rothschild the knowledge that he would use to build his family’s fortune.

    Rothschild used money from his wife’s dowry and his personal business deals to invest in the Industrial Revolution and sell arms. He began extending credit to his customers, which proved to be the catalyst that led to the family’s current net worth of $400 billion.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/business...wealth/249788/

    The $200 Trillion World: Who Owns All the Wealth?

    The wealth of the world -- from all the global stock markets, insurance funds, and families -- comes out to about $200 trillion, according to the McKinsey Global Institute's new report on investors in developing nations. Who owns all that?

    Households, mostly. U.S. and Western European households own about one-quarter of the world's financial assets, according the rather remarkable chart produced by the authors, which breaks down wealth by type and geography.




    You cited Investopedia claiming $2 trillion in "assets controlled":

    https://www.investopedia.com/updates...schild-family/

    [CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article cited an estimate of the combined net worth of the Rothschilds at $350 billion. That estimate came from a source that does not meet Investopedia's standards, and we have consequently retracted it. Similarly, an estimate that the Rothschilds controlled more than $2 trillion worth in assets was also inadequately sourced and retracted.]
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-27-2017 at 08:06 PM.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  8. #37

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    Fake news.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #38

  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    They finance war, that's not how they made their money. They are the ones that start the wars and profit off of them.
    Which defense contractors do they own?
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  11. #40

  12. #41

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Which ones don't they "own"?
    I own some defense contractors. At least parts of some. I own shares of many companies in my diverse stock funds.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I own some defense contractors. At least parts of some. I own shares of many companies in my diverse stock funds.
    I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire. The man who controls Britain’s money supply controls the British Empire and I control the British money supply.- Nathan Rothschild

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Borrowing from the computer that creates treasures
    I like treasure .

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I like treasure .
    Me too .

    I am collecting Donald Trump election merchandise . Hats, buttons, stickers .

    Will be very valuable in a few years .
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Me too .

    I am collecting Donald Trump election merchandise . Hats, buttons, stickers .

    Will be very valuable in a few years .
    I still have my Nixon Now buttons .

  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I own some defense contractors. At least parts of some. I own shares of many companies in my diverse stock funds.
    You don't own any stock shares. Neither do I. Or anyone else. You hold equitable use title, not ownership title. The Rothschild central bank owns the title to all stocks through their holding company, Cede & Co. You are allowed to trade their stock back and forth on their exchanges in hopes of winning some of their fake money, with those trades settled by their clearinghouse called the DTCC. The entire "economy" is nothing more than the "Casino Rothschild". You play in their casinos, with their chips, at their games and they take a slice of every transaction and the house always wins. That is also why they hold gold in their banks but discourage your ownership, even fraudulently suppressing price discovery. Physical gold is not expressly part of their casino games and is one of the few ways to store the proceeds of your own labor (your energy stored) outside of their system.


    -----------------------------
    After allegedly being shot at on a baseball field and allegedly attacked by a neighbor, I'm not surprised Rand is voting the way he is now. Either he is being threatened to not step out of line or fictional scenarios are being floated to justify votes for "must pass" establishment-required legislation. His vote in the Senate is make-or-break for a lot of legislation that is vital to the statutory changes required as part of the loss of the dollar's global reserve status. I don't expect Rand to martyr himself...
    Last edited by devil21; 12-10-2017 at 12:02 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  19. #48

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    Rand says he will NOT vote for a spending bill that adds to the deficit.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...dds-to-deficit
    Last edited by devil21; 12-12-2017 at 12:22 PM. Reason: fixed
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  20. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Rand now says he will NOT vote for a tax bill that adds to the deficit.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...dds-to-deficit
    uhm, that isn't what he said. HE wont vote for any spending bills that increase the deficit. he will vote for the tax bill as that is not a spending bill, but a matter of money collection (the opposite of spending generally)

  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    uhm, that isn't what he said. HE wont vote for any spending bills that increase the deficit. he will vote for the tax bill as that is not a spending bill, but a matter of money collection (the opposite of spending generally)
    Oh true, I guess I spaced on the tax/spending terms since the article jumps back and forth between spending and tax bill commentary. Though, I wouldn't at all surprised if Congress tried to bundle it all into one Christmas Eve bill.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  22. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Oh true, I guess I spaced on the tax/spending terms since the article jumps back and forth between spending and tax bill commentary. Though, I wouldn't at all surprised if Congress tried to bundle it all into one Christmas Eve bill.
    I know plenty of haters have tried to paint Randal as a hypocrite since he has always been a budget hawk and he supports the tax bill which increases the deficit. But not really, its all about who's money it is. Randal thinks it is our money and we should keep more of it. The problem has always been spending and that's what he is voting against.

  23. #52

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    Personally , I like the Oyarde tax plan .

  24. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I know plenty of haters have tried to paint Randal as a hypocrite since he has always been a budget hawk and he supports the tax bill which increases the deficit. But not really, its all about who's money it is. Randal thinks it is our money and we should keep more of it. The problem has always been spending and that's what he is voting against.
    So the deficit doesn't really matter. Only spending.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  25. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So the deficit doesn't really matter. Only spending.
    Pretty much

    How much wealth the state diverts from the productive sector is what matters.

    How exactly it extracts that wealth (overt tax, covert inflation tax, borrowing) makes little difference.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  26. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Pretty much

    How much wealth the state diverts from the productive sector is what matters.

    How exactly it extracts that wealth (overt tax, covert inflation tax, borrowing) makes little difference.
    Borrowing to finance that debt also extracts money from the private sector and raises their costs of borrowing.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  27. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Borrowing to finance that debt also extracts money from the private sector and raises their costs of borrowing.
    That's right. On the other hand, it creates less of a disincentive for taxpayers to work. I'm actually not convinced that a tax cut (without a spending cut) will have any benefit at all, but it might. Either way, it makes little difference - spending is king (and regulating, which is in many ways the easiest to fix, in terms of overcoming vested interests, but also the least sexy, gets no attention, etc).
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

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