Why Do Employers Require College Degrees That Aren't Necessary?

[DamianTV]

https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/1...rent-necessary

Slashdot reader pefisher writes:

A lot of us on Slashdot have noticed that potential employers advertise for things they don't need. To the point that sometimes they even ask for things that don't exist. Like asking for ten years of experience in a technology that has only just been introduced. It's frustrating because it makes you wonder "what's this employers real game?"

Do they just want to say they advertised for the position, or are they really so immensely stupid, so disconnected from their own needs, that they think they are actually asking for something they can have...? Here is a Harvard Study that addresses one particular angle of this. It doesn't answer any questions, but it does prove that you aren't crazy. And it quantifies the craziness.

The study's author calls it "degree inflation," and after studying 26 million job postings concluded that employers are now less willing to actually train new people on the job, possibly to save money. "Many companies have fallen into a lazy way of thinking about this," the study's author tells The Street, saying companies are "[looking for] somebody who is just job-ready to just show up." The irony is that college graduates will ultimately be paid a higher salary -- even though for many jobs, the study found that a college degree yields zero improvement in actual performance.

The Street reports that "In a market where companies increasingly rely on computerized systems to cull out early-round applicants, that has led firms to often consider a bachelor's degree indicative of someone who can socialize, run a meeting and generally work well with others." One company tells them that "we removed the requirement to have a computer science degree, and we removed the requirement to have experience in development computer programming. And when we removed those things we found that the pool of potential really good team members drastically expanded."

So what are your thoughts? PhD in biochemistry to tend bar?

[Lamp]

Why do I need Calculus and Advanced Functions in High School to get into an Accounting program?

[sparebulb]

Any bachelors degree qualifies one to be an officer in about every discipline in the armed forces.

This reveals much about the intrinsic value of a college degree.

[euphemia]

I think part of it has to do with the ability to stick with something. There is a lot to be said for the reading, writing, and review process.

But maybe a degree in Theatre should not be necessary to usher for Cirque du Soleil.

[Swordsmyth]

It is part of a massive manipulation to make those without a college degree pariahs, they want to make everyone go through the brainwashing and pay tuition so they spread these stupid ideas throughout the business world.

[Anti Federalist]

It is part of a massive manipulation to make those without a college degree pariahs, they want to make everyone go through the brainwashing and pay tuition so they spread these stupid ideas throughout the business world.

And there you have it.

[specsaregood]

while self-employed, I have never been asked what degrees I have when bidding/quoting on a job. Customers don't care as long as the job is done right at the right price.

[oyarde]

while self-employed, I have never been asked what degrees I have when bidding/quoting on a job. Customers don't care as long as the job is done right at the right price.

Absolutely . If I am paying someone to do something it is because I do not want to do it , I cannot do it or they can do it better . I do not care where or if they went to school . I only want it done well .

[Suzanimal]

No one ever asked to see Mr A's math degree at the bar, lol.

[CaptUSA]

As someone who has posted and hired for dozens of positions (maybe hundreds??) I think I can shed a little light on what's happening here.

When any decent-sized company posts for a position, they have to make decisions about who they end up hiring. Well, in sane world, you'd just choose the person you think will do the best job. And ultimately, that's what usually happens. But the problem comes in who you don't hire. There are so many protected classes nowadays that if one of the other applicants says you hired someone other then them because of a "discriminatory" reason, they can win a lawsuit. At the very least, they can make your lawyers waste their time.

So employers will use the prerequisites as a way to thin out the herd, so to speak. If you don't apply, they can't be sued. Also, if you do apply and you don't meet the qualifications, they can exclude you from even obtaining an interview.

Basically, all hiring decisions must be easily defensible. So we throw all sorts of job requirements out there in order to point to one as a "reason" why we chose someone other than you. In reality, we chose the person we thought would be best, but we're also giving easy cover to the lawyers. It also saves us from interviewing 40-50 people for one job. We have to be able to say we excluded certain resumes for "cause" - not just because we didn't feel like wasting a whole week trying to talk to 35 people that never stood a chance.

[TheTexan]

I dunno about other employers, but at least at the TSA you don't really need a college education unless you want one of the better jobs like TSA Screener

[Swordsmyth]

As someone who has posted and hired for dozens of positions (maybe hundreds??) I think I can shed a little light on what's happening here.

When any decent-sized company posts for a position, they have to make decisions about who they end up hiring. Well, in sane world, you'd just choose the person you think will do the best job. And ultimately, that's what usually happens. But the problem comes in who you don't hire. There are so many protected classes nowadays that if one of the other applicants says you hired someone other then them because of a "discriminatory" reason, they can win a lawsuit. At the very least, they can make your lawyers waste their time.

So employers will use the prerequisites as a way to thin out the herd, so to speak. If you don't apply, they can't be sued. Also, if you do apply and you don't meet the qualifications, they can exclude you from even obtaining an interview.

Basically, all hiring decisions must be easily defensible. So we throw all sorts of job requirements out there in order to point to one as a "reason" why we chose someone other than you. In reality, we chose the person we thought would be best, but we're also giving easy cover to the lawyers. It also saves us from interviewing 40-50 people for one job. We have to be able to say we excluded certain resumes for "cause" - not just because we didn't feel like wasting a whole week trying to talk to 35 people that never stood a chance.

One of the many ways they manipulate relatively innocent and unknowing businessmen to achieve what I said:

It is part of a massive manipulation to make those without a college degree pariahs, they want to make everyone go through the brainwashing and pay tuition so they spread these stupid ideas throughout the business world.

College education equals debt slavery and liberal philosophy, THEY want those outcomes for everyone so they have been manipulating culture and the economy to induce and coerce ever more people to go to college since WWII, some of THEM want to make it free and steal the money from society at large but all of THEM want to make it mandatory either legally (Obamacare for education, "All of society benefits from having an educated populace so it is your duty like vaccination") or by making it impossible to have a decent life without it the way they have for a HS diploma/GED.

[CaptUSA]

One of the many ways they manipulate relatively innocent and unknowing businessmen to achieve what I said:



College education equals debt slavery and liberal philosophy, THEY want those outcomes for everyone so they have been manipulating culture and the economy to induce and coerce ever more people to go to college since WWII, some of THEM want to make it free and steal the money from society at large but all of THEM want to make it mandatory either legally (Obamacare for education, "All of society benefits from having an educated populace so it is your duty like vaccination") or by making it impossible to have a decent life without it the way they have for a HS diploma/GED.

I"m telling ya, it has nothing to do with that. It's a defense against litigation. Period. But it does have the same effect, so I can see how you'd think that. There's no mass conspiracy out there to make business require degrees where none are needed. But if you don't want to be sued by the guys who didn't get the job, you'd better be able to back up your decisions! That's what's really driving this.

[Swordsmyth]

I"m telling ya, it has nothing to do with that. It's a defense against litigation. Period. But it does have the same effect, so I can see how you'd think that. There's no mass conspiracy out there to make business require degrees where none are needed. But if you don't want to be sued by the guys who didn't get the job, you'd better be able to back up your decisions! That's what's really driving this.

And who created that legal environment? And who spread that solution throughout the business/legal world? and there are other reasons that they have given businesses to do it besides the legal issues.

Besides there are many other ways they have been creating their planned outcome of college being required, I am not claiming that their is only one facet to the phenomenon, THEY always do things for multiple reasons and then figure out even more ways to use what THEY already did.

[euphemia]

Let me put it this way: it is very difficult to work with uneducated leaders. They do not understand people very well and they do not understand the nature of leadership. A year or two of actual class work with someone who understands how to implement best business practices, along with reading, writing, and evaluation will really help put ambition in its proper place and will help employees thrive in an environment that brings out the best in the team.

[donnay]

It's too bad there isn't a degree for common sense.

And i think it is a conspiracy. Mortgage people to the hilt so they are in debt and they become an indentured servant for the rest of their lives. Is it any wonder why people aren't marrying at a young age anymore? Who could afford a family with a lifetime a debt hanging over their heads? Another way to break up the family unit.

Proverbs 22:7 (KJV)
7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

[VIDEODROME]

The job recruiting process has been handing over to Staffing Firms or HR people. If these jobs are highly technical, chances are the HR office people don't fully comprehend the field they're hiring for so they demand a degree plus tons of certifications and experience.

[euphemia]

I will add that I've had some supervisors who have the degree but did not pay attention to the leadership part. I don't think it takes a big, expensive school to make that happen. Or all four years at an expensive university. Stay home for two years, go to a community college and get the basics in, work, and pay for the classes. Then transfer to the university for degree work. My brother in law did that.

Or go to a local college or university where tuition is lower. Or prepare to pay-as-you-go and take longer than 4 years.

[Zippyjuan]

If you had two identical candidates for a job and the only difference was education, which would you hire?

[euphemia]

If one of them was named Zippyjuan, I would choose the other.

[timosman]

If you had two identical candidates for a job and the only difference was education, which would you hire?

Maybe you should not be in charge of hiring if the only difference you can spot is education?

[euphemia]

I would rather hire a person who went to school because she knows she doesn't know everything than the one who thinks she knows it all, and can treat people any way she wants because she is in charge.

[Swordsmyth]

I would rather hire a person who went to school because she knows she doesn't know everything than the one who thinks she knows it all, and can treat people any way she wants because she is in charge.

Maybe that is a problem that comes from hiring a "SHE" to be in charge who hasn't even worked her way up the ladder within the company.

[heavenlyboy34]

If you had two identical candidates for a job and the only difference was education, which would you hire?

In my fields a degree doesn't mean $#@! if you don't have a good portfolio.

[timosman]

In my fields a degree doesn't mean $#@! if you don't have a good portfolio.

So how did your boss get hired?

[euphemia]

Maybe that is a problem that comes from hiring a "SHE" to be in charge who hasn't even worked her way up the ladder within the company.

My recent bitter experience is that people can work their way up as long as they make people at the top of the ladder feel good. It doesn't matter how much crap goes down to the people below. A little understanding and academic study of business would have changed that. In promoting the *she*, they actually all took many steps backwards.

I now work at just as large a company, but they really understand leadership. They are interested in a good dynamic where good leadership is sought and utilized, and everyone works as a team. It's very refreshing.

[Swordsmyth]

My recent bitter experience is that people can work their way up as long as they make people at the top of the ladder feel good. It doesn't matter how much crap goes down to the people below. A little understanding and academic study of business would have changed that. In promoting the *she*, they actually all took many steps backwards.

I now work at just as large a company, but they really understand leadership. They are interested in a good dynamic where good leadership is sought and utilized, and everyone works as a team. It's very refreshing.

College degrees are not a substitute for taste and wisdom in who to hire/promote from within, there are plenty of bad people with degrees.

[heavenlyboy34]

So how did your boss get hired?

I personally freelance. On the design side of things, art directors at design firms typically hire people based on a combination of portfolio and practical skills test. Directors normally become directors working in the industry a long time(junior to senior designer and on up) or by starting a firm themselves. On the translation side of things, I have no idea how translation firms work. I've only dabbled in freelancing.

ETA: in-house designers are usually expected to have a degree, but that's just a formality. You still won't get hired without a good portfolio.

[DamianTV]

I think Govt Interference has caused most of our problems, and the results are exactly what so many of you have mentioned.

Yes, Employers are afraid of applicants that will sue them if the Employer rejects their application for quite literally ANY reason.
Yes, Employers do need specific skillsets for specific jobs.
Yes, Employers put the process of hiring technical people into the hands of people who are not technical.
Yes, Employers, especially in govt positions, often have a tough time getting rid of an employee who displays an inability to perform their job, thus, they promote that crappy employee just to get them out of that position.
Yes, Employees are sue-happy and many bring truly frivolous lawsuits against employers.
Yes, govt taking either side has enabled both sides to run around with their guard up against the most minor of infractions.
Yes, the reasons that some people are rejected or fired is for things that people should not be fired or rejected for. Discrimination goes both ways.
Yes, Illegal Immigration hurts everyone, including the Immigrants.

Mostly those are things that have already been brought up in the thread, as well as other threads. These are ALL valid points of view. But looking at each of those things, I really believe that Govt Interference in employment has caused more problems than it has solved. Employers are no longer willing / much less willing to train people as many of those people quit immediately and take that training to go somewhere that pays better. Cant blame either the employer for being skiddish of this, nor the employee who needs access to affordable education, which we do not have in this country any longer. In a lot of cases, having an education shows the employee is more likely to quit, costing the employer money, when they find a better paying job. Having an education can too often work against a person just as much as it can help.

Now, personally, I am mixed on getting govt fully out of employment. Devil's Advocate, but there are both employers and employees who will take advantage of the other. Both feel justified, and both take advantage of govt interference to get something for nothing, or to protect what they got. Perhaps fully removing ALL govt from employment is not the best solution. I personally think that LESS govt would be the best thing we can do.

"The Essence of Freedom is the proper limitation of government."

One thing is for sure, our government has not been properly limited. As a result, we see the problems and valid perspectives that we each see today.

---

Weekend Humor: A Millennial Job Interview
https://player.vimeo.com/video/23905...e=0&portrait=0

[Zippyjuan]

Competition for jobs? More people applying for the same job means that an employer can ask for higher standards on the application to help weed through them. The more people with college degrees looking for jobs, the more employers can ask for degrees among applicants. That can get you in. Staying or getting promoted will depend on how you perform and how you get along with your boss (yes, there are those who suck at performance but excel at sucking up to the boss so they get promoted anyways).