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Thread: Church of Sweden to stop calling God 'he','the Lord' in bid to crack down on gendered language

  1. #1

    Exclamation Church of Sweden to stop calling God 'he','the Lord' in bid to crack down on gendered language

    Why woemen should not be in church leadership positions, reason #34517.


    Church of Sweden to stop clergy calling God 'he' or 'the Lord' in bid to crack down on gendered language

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...rack-gendered/

    24 November 2017 • 11:54am

    The Church of Sweden is encouraging its clergy to use the gender-neutral term "God" instead of referring to the deity as "he" or "the Lord".

    The decision was made on Thursday, wrapping up an eight-day meeting of the church's 251-member decision-making body. The decision will take effect on May 20 during Pentecost.

    It is the latest move by the national Evangelical Lutheran church to modernise its 31-year-old handbook setting out how services should be conducted.

    The decision to update the book of worship gives priests new options on how to refer to God during their services.

    Priests can now open their services by referring to the traditional "Father, son and Holy Ghost" or the gender-neutral phrase "in the name of God and the Holy Trinity". Other gender-neutral options are available for other parts of the Church of Sweden liturgy.

    "We talk about Jesus Christ, but in a few places we have changed it to say 'God' instead of 'he'," Church of Sweden spokesperson Sofija Pedersen Videke told The Telegraph. "We have some prayer options that are more gender-neutral than others."

    "A wide majority of people decided on the book," she said, adding that she had heard of no priests who objected to the new linguistic framework.

    The Church of Sweden is headed by Archbishop Antje Jackelen, who was elected Sweden's first female archbishop in 2013.

    Archbishop Jackelen defended the decision, telling Sweden's TT news agency: "Theologically, for instance, we know that God is beyond our gender determinations, God is not human."

    (And God said, Let us make man in our image - AF)

    The decision was met with some criticism. Christer Pahlmblad, an associate theology professor at Lund University in Sweden, told Danish newspaper Kristeligt Dagblad that the decision was "undermining the doctrine of the Trinity and the community with the other Christian churches."

    "It really isn't smart if the Church of Sweden becomes known as a church that does not respect the common theology heritage," he said. The Church of Sweden has 6.1 million baptised members in a country with a population of 10 million.

    The Church of England told The Telegraph that it also chooses to avoid divisive language in its services, but not with regards to God. “When liturgy is revised we also seek to use inclusive language where appropriate when referring to people,” a spokesperson said.

    “The Church of England has always used masculine language when speaking about God, for example in the words of the Lord’s Prayer – ‘our Father, who art in Heaven’ – and in referring to God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and continues to do so."

    The decision by the Church of Sweden mirrors an international trend for inclusivity in major churches. Earlier this month, the Church of England published guidelines for helping children “explore the possibilities of who they might be", including their gender identity.



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  3. #2
    End times prophecy

    2 Timothy 3:1-2

    "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,"

    Matthew 24:11

    "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

    Matthew 24:24

    "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

    Matthew 24:10

    "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

    Daniel 12:4

    "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."

    Matthew 24:6

    "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

    Matthew 24:9

    "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

    Matthew 24:5

    "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

    Matthew 24:25

    "Behold, I have told you in advance.

    Acts 2:17

    'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

    2 Peter 3:3

    "Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,"

    2 Timothy 3:1

    But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.

    Habakkuk 2:3

    "For the vision is yet for the appointed time; It hastens toward the goal and it will not fail Though it tarries, wait for it; For it will certainly come, it will not delay.

    1 Timothy 4:1

    But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

    Revelation 20:4

    Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    Isaiah 46:10

    Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';

    Matthew 24:29

    "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

    Matthew 24:15

    "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

    Matthew 24:3

    As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

    1 John 2:18

    Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

    Isaiah 2:2

    Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it.

    Revelation 22:10

    And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

  4. #3
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    //
    Last edited by Lamp; 11-25-2017 at 12:29 PM.

  5. #4
    no wonder nobody goes to church in Sweden.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Archbishop Jackelen defended the decision, telling Sweden's TT news agency: "Theologically, for instance, we know that God is beyond our gender determinations, God is not human."

    (And God said, Let us make man in our image - AF)
    Although the Swedish Church's decision reeks of political correctness, I really don't see what's so outrageous about the concept of a genderless deity that isn't human. Does anyone really believe that God has (a) an entire digestive system, even though there is no reason for God to ever eat or drink anything; (b) a male reproductive system, even though it would presumably never be put to use; (c) lungs, even though God presumably doesn't need to breathe; (d) an adam's apple (or more precisely, a pre-Adam's apple); or (e) head and facial hair that grows, so that God needs to go to the Celestial Barbershop from time to time for a trim and a shave?
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Although the Swedish Church's decision reeks of political correctness, I really don't see what's so outrageous about the concept of a genderless deity that isn't human. Does anyone really believe that God has (a) an entire digestive system, even though there is no reason for God to ever eat or drink anything; (b) a male reproductive system, even though it would presumably never be put to use; (c) lungs, even though God presumably doesn't need to breathe; (d) an adam's apple (or more precisely, a pre-Adam's apple); or (e) head and facial hair that grows, so that God needs to go to the Celestial Barbershop from time to time for a trim and a shave?
    Exactly right

  8. #7
    People show their ignorance the more they try to put God in a box.

    1. Men and women are created in the image of God-Read Genesis. In the image of God, he created *them*
    2. When God carries young lambs in his bosom, it's the picture of a nuturing mother.
    3. The Lord who gave birth to you? Men can't do that.
    4. El Shaddai is translated as God Almighty, or Almighty God. It literally means, "The Breasted One." It is the same Hebrew word translated to Greek in 1 Thessalonians where Paul describes himself as tender, as a nurse cherishes her children. The actual picture there is of a nursing mother, nursing her children. God nourishes and cherishes us in the same way.
    5. He hides us under the shadow of his wings--again, a picture of a mother hen, guarding her chicks.

    I don't care what people say, there is not a person in all of human history who can make God anything other than what He is. Not even the Church of Sweden. God is what He is, and that's all there is to it.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  9. #8
    God has junk? I'd be too afraid to look...
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  11. #9
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    And what does repeated Bible jargon have that could convince someone who believes in the Avesta or the Vedas regarding the supposed form of god?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamp View Post
    And what does repeated Bible jargon have that could convince someone who believes in the Avesta or the Vedas regarding the supposed form of god?
    Did you not read the original post? The point of the thread was to discuss what the Church of Sweden did, not to be relevant to other systems.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  13. #11
    Traditionally, the Church sees itself as the bride of Christ, and it is not seen as a lesbian relationship. It is no coincidence that redefining God and the Church (the family of God) happens as we redefine genders, marriage, and families.

  14. #12
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    I realized that. I was referring to the last part regarding "making God other than what he is"

  15. #13
    Still, in a Bible context, there is no point in discussing other systems. The issue is that the Church of Sweden is trying to please people by ignoring the actual words and their meanings. Getting away from specific terminolgy and its meaning dilutes faith.

    If you wish to discuss other systems, please feel free to start another thread. Otherwise, you'd just be trolling this one.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  16. #14
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    my bad. was gonna post carpet motifs images by accident.....carry on

  17. #15
    Stick around if you have questions about what we're talking about, or about God as revealed in the Bible.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  18. #16
    Ze?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.



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  20. #17
    LOL if God were a woman this planet would have never gotten even half way finished
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  21. #18
    Nobody said that. I was merely pointing out what the original language says based on very conservative scholarship.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  22. #19
    It should go without saying, but also

    God is white American
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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