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Thread: How to deal with Monopolies?

  1. #1

    Default How to deal with Monopolies?

    For there to be an actual free market, should we allow government to be able to put restrictions on certain big businesses, companies and firms to keep small businesses safe, and keep monopolies out of the economy. If not, how other way could we prevent monopolies from forming... or do we want them in a free market (obviously we do if they have 100% of the market share )



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  3. #2

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    The best way governments can stop monopolies from happening is to stop creating them.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  5. #4

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    There are no monopolies without government.

  6. #5

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    What monopolies currently exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What monopolies currently exist?
    Let’s see... post office, utilities, legal tender??
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Let’s see... post office, utilities, legal tender??
    Post office no longer has a monopoly. You can send packages or communication with other sources. FedEx. UPS. Private delivery companies. Messenger services. Email. Texts. They just can't put them inside your mailbox.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Post office no longer has a monopoly. You can send packages or communication with other sources. FedEx. UPS. Private delivery companies. Messenger services. Email. Texts. They just can't put them inside your mailbox.
    So let me get this straight.... I buy a box with my own money... stick it on a pole at the end of my driveway... Tell another company to deliver a package and put it the box... and they say, "sorry, we can't do that. We're not allowed. Another company has that right..." And that is not a monopoly?
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So let me get this straight.... I buy a box with my own money... stick it on a pole at the end of my driveway... Tell another company to deliver a package and put it the box... and they say, "sorry, we can't do that. We're not allowed. Another company has that right..." And that is not a monopoly?
    While there may be a problem with what you describe it is not a monopoly because you can put up another box, newspapers do it where I live.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So let me get this straight.... I buy a box with my own money... stick it on a pole at the end of my driveway... Tell another company to deliver a package and put it the box... and they say, "sorry, we can't do that. We're not allowed. Another company has that right..." And that is not a monopoly?
    They can leave it at your door or in another box if you like. Just not in the mailbox. https://blog.oup.com/2017/07/mailboxes-us-mail/

    Use of First Class mail and package delivery expanded sharply in the early 1900s. Commercial users of postal services found the expense of postage higher than if they delivered their own mail, such as utility companies delivering water and telephone bills, newspapers the daily paper, and department stores their advertisements. So they began using their own carriers to deliver what otherwise would be largely First Class Mail, avoiding paying US postage. At the time, the biggest source of revenue for the Post Office was First Class Mail, and so private carriers were reducing the revenue coming into the postal agency. The US Post Office went to Congress and asked for a law to constrain this competition by making it against the law for anyone else to use a mailbox. In 1934, the New Deal Democratic Congress complied, as the postal system had enormous political power within the Democratic Party because every town and city had postal employees and they voted! The “mailbox restriction” law as it is often called (18 U.S.C. 1725) gave the Post Office what one government official observed was “a virtual monopoly over mailboxes.” Also, if it found any flyer or other item in the mailbox without postage, the Post Office could force the person putting it in there to pay postage for it even if not delivered by postal carriers.
    Then came e-mail in the 1980s, followed by online shopping and banking in the 1990s and early 2000s. The volume of First Class mail dropped every year and, as the quantity dropped, the US Postal Service increased the price of a First Class stamp, which then motivated people to use more e-mail and to start paying their bills online, which further reduced the demand for First Class stamps. Increasingly, those utility companies that had created the problem for the Post Office in the first place made it increasingly possible to be paid online. Package delivery services, which offered better services and often cost less than the Post Office, became widely available in the 1990s. This took further business away from the Postal Service.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-20-2017 at 08:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They can leave it at your door or in another box if you like. https://blog.oup.com/2017/07/mailboxes-us-mail/
    Lol, from your own damned post...

    At the time, the biggest source of revenue for the Post Office was First Class Mail, and so private carriers were reducing the revenue coming into the postal agency. The US Post Office went to Congress and asked for a law to constrain this competition by making it against the law for anyone else to use a mailbox. In 1934, the New Deal Democratic Congress complied, as the postal system had enormous political power within the Democratic Party because every town and city had postal employees and they voted! The “mailbox restriction” law as it is often called (18 U.S.C. 1725) gave the Post Office what one government official observed was “a virtual monopoly over mailboxes.”
    Thanks

    Up next: post something about utilities!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  13. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Post office no longer has a monopoly.

    A monopoly goes deeper than just having competition.

    Does the competition get favorable government treatment on the backs of taxpayers?



    Article title: American taxpayers give an $18 billion gift to the post office every year





    Excerpts:


    Tax breaks. The Post Office is exempt from state and local property and real estate taxes, along with other burdens like tolls, vehicle registration fees, and parking tickets. These exemptions save the USPS $2.18 billion per year.

    Cheap borrowing. The Postal Service, writes Shapiro, “can borrow from the U.S. Treasury through the Federal Financing Bank, at highly-subsidized interest rates.” It currently borrows the legal limit of $15.2 billion at a rate of 1.2%. Without this access, it would be paying somewhere between $415 million and $490 million per year more in interest.


    http://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/

    The above Fortune article cites this report.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Lol, from your own damned post...



    Thanks

    Up next: post something about utilities!
    Transitioning from or competing with them is much harder. Telecommunications is more competitive than the old AT&T days but it is harder to set up your own energy sources though solar use is growing. You can cut the chord with the phone or cable company but that gas and electricity is tougher.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  15. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Lol, from your own damned post...



    Thanks

    Up next: post something about utilities!
    Interesting, what is the definition of a "mail box"? The newspapers where I live put little boxes on posts right next to people's mail boxes and deliver to them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Transitioning from or competing with them is much harder.

    Only if you believe the propaganda:


    Excerpt from an article called The Myth of Natural Monopoly

    The Natural-Monopoly Myth: Electric Utilities

    According to natural-monopoly theory, competition cannot persist in the electric-utility industry. But the theory is contradicted by the fact that competition has in fact persisted for decades in dozens of US cities. Economist Walter J. Primeaux has studied electric utility competition for more than 20 years. In his 1986 book, Direct Utility Competition: The Natural Monopoly Myth, he concludes that in those cities where there is direct competition in the electric utility industries:

    --Direct rivalry between two competing firms has existed for very long periods of time — for over 80 years in some cities;

    --The rival electric utilities compete vigorously through prices and services;

    --Customers have gained substantial benefits from the competition, compared to cities were there are electric utility monopolies;

    --Contrary to natural-monopoly theory, costs are actually lower where there are two firms operating;

    --Contrary to natural-monopoly theory, there is no more excess capacity under competition than under monopoly in the electric utility industry;

    --The theory of natural monopoly fails on every count: competition exists, price wars are not "serious," there is better consumer service and lower prices with competition, competition persists for very long periods of time, and consumers themselves prefer competition to regulated monopoly; and

    --Any consumer satisfaction problems caused by dual power lines are considered by consumers to be less significant than the benefits from competition.42


    https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Interesting, what is the definition of a "mail box"? The newspapers where I live put little boxes on posts right next to people's mail boxes and deliver to them.
    Usually they say "US Mail" on them. Newspaper boxes usually have the name of the paper on them so they know where it goes.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-20-2017 at 09:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bda_conservatism View Post
    ...should we allow government to ......
    No.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Interesting, what is the definition of a "mail box"? The newspapers where I live put little boxes on posts right next to people's mail boxes and deliver to them.
    That's because your government makes it illegal for you to use your primary box for multiple purposes.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Post office no longer has a monopoly. .

    Except for First Class mail, you mean.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    That's because your government makes it illegal for you to use your primary box for multiple purposes.
    As I said:

    While there may be a problem with what you describe it is not a monopoly because you can put up another box, newspapers do it where I live.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Except for First Class mail, you mean.
    You can send things by other than First Class mail. Email. Currier. Overnight services (granted that will cost more than First Class). The loss of first class mail volume is one of the main problems for the Post Office. It was their biggest source of revenues.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    As I said:

    While there may be a problem with what you describe it is not a monopoly because you can put up another box, newspapers do it where I live.
    Newspapers aren't mail. Try putting up a box to get mail delivered and see what happens.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  24. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    You can send things by other than First Class mail. Email. Currier.

    Currier? Seriously, Holmes? You also recently misspelled "truly" as "truely" and "pursuit" as "persuit."

    If you're going to do this, then at least bring back regular Zip. He can't be that busy at the grocery store. We need to go back to a Better Class of Loser.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    You can send things by other than First Class mail. Email. Currier. Overnight services (granted that will cost more than First Class). The loss of first class mail volume is one of the main problems for the Post Office. It was their biggest source of revenues.

    Every letter that is delivered by FedEx/UPS/etc results in a payment to the USPS. So no, one cannot actually select another more-expensive courier and stiff the USPS.

    If you are implying that they do not have a monopoly on First Class mail then you're lying. They also have a monopoly on bulk mail advertising.

    If you're insinuating that they're not inept because they keep losing money hand over fist despite having a 200 year monopoly combined with a huge increase in package volume, then you're at best intentionally obtuse.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  26. #25






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