View Poll Results: Would You Like To See A New Party Like That Described in the OP?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, give me policy and sanity, don't care about toilets

    7 53.85%
  • No, LP/CP is fine

    6 46.15%
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Thread: Time For A New Third Party?

  1. #1

    Default Time For A New Third Party?

    I'd like to be able to vote for a party which promotes laissez faire, sane foreign policy, and due process, which ignores the culture war, and which welcomes neither fat naked hippies, lunatic Evangelicals, nor people wearing tinfoil headgear. In short, I'd like there to be a libertarian/classical liberal party which Mises wouldn't be embarrassed to be associated with. Is this too much to ask? Especially in this circus of a political environment, I think a sober, policy-focused Classical Liberal Party (or whatever you might call it), which keeps well clear of who-gets-to-use-the-toilet tabloid politics, could do well and be a much more effective pressure group than the LP or CP.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-15-2017 at 07:10 PM.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  3. #2

    Default

    just support the Mises Caucus in the libertarian party:

    It is a bit of a joke though that the libertarian party hasn't nominated an actual libertarian candidate since 2004 (Michael Badnarik)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oNG7rwWkyY

    https://twitter.com/LPMisesCaucus?lang=en
    Last edited by pcgame; 11-15-2017 at 06:58 PM.

  4. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcgame View Post
    just support the Mises Caucus in the libertarian party:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oNG7rwWkyY

    https://twitter.com/LPMisesCaucus?lang=en
    I like these planks especially:

    Plank 5 - Decorum: The discussion surrounding the proper role of government in society is one of ideas. As Mises himself pointed out, “Everything that happens in the social world in our time is the result of ideas. Good things and bad things. What is needed is to fight bad ideas.” Ludwig von Mises was a brilliant moral philosopher and an accomplished economist, but above all, he was a gentleman. We intend to conduct ourselves in a way that honors his tradition, while exhibiting the utmost decorum in the battle of hearts and minds.

    Plank 6 - Lifestyle Choices: The Mises Caucus takes no stance on personal, cultural, and social preferences. One’s lifestyle is merely an extension of their self-ownership. Thus, no individual can rightfully claim jurisdiction over the lifestyle of another. We assert only that any and all lifestyle choices must accord with the Non-Aggression Principle. As Murray Rothbard once wrote, “Libertarianism does not offer a way of life; it offers liberty, so that each person is free to adopt and act upon his own values and moral principles.”

    Plank 7 - Identity Politics: The Mises Caucus categorically rejects all forms of identity politics as nothing more than weaponized tribal collectivism that is antithetical to individualism.
    This part concerns me though:

    Plank 2 - Self-Determination: The Mises Caucus recognizes that freedom of association manifests itself politically in the form of absolute right of self-determination. The Austro-libertarian tradition favors decentralization - subsidiarity, secession, nullification, localism - and reduction of government wherever possible as a means of expanding choice and competition in governance for all individuals. Mises wrote, “If it were in any way possible to grant this right of self-determination to every individual person, it would have to be done.” To this end, the Mises Caucus favors radical decentralization of, and secession from, all government and political units.
    That sounds like anarcho-capitalism, which, whatever your view (I'm a minarchist) is a political non-starter. But even beyond that issue, I'm not sure that reforming the LP is the best strategy, as opposed to starting fresh. Nonetheless, this Mises Caucus is a healthy sign; at least there's some demand for the sort of politics this thread is calling for.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-15-2017 at 07:05 PM.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  5. #4

    Default

    I think it is past time to end the party system. Period. Get rid of the low hanging fruit vote altogether. Make people become informed. Or, at the least, not create impediments to independents.
    I didn't see that option.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I think it is past time to end the party system. Period. Get rid of the low hanging fruit vote altogether. Make people become informed. Or, at the least, not create impediments to independents.
    I didn't see that option.
    How would you go about accomplishing that?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    How would you go about accomplishing that?
    I don't think you have my decoder ring.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  8. #7

    Default

    America has the parties it wants and deserves . I do not . Nor will I . The modern Dem party is the communist party ( about 60 percent of americans ) the mainstream GOP is the socialist party ( about 30 percent of americans ) , give or take 5 to 10 percent .

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcgame View Post
    just support the Mises Caucus in the libertarian party:
    No. No. No. They are beholden to the rest of the party. After this past election I will never, ever support them.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    No. No. No. They are beholden to the rest of the party. After this past election I will never, ever support them.
    In an election that could have been ground shaking we got Gary. No. Just no.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  11. #10

    Default

    Agreed with the general sentiment by the OP. The party of Johnson, Weld, and Barr is not a lover of liberty, but an opportunistic GOP lite that desperately wants to play with the big boys and seems to sell it's soul each year with these terrible choices. When all is said and done, your average Joe still thinks the LP simply stands for legalizing marijuana and supporting gay marriage. If that is the best the marketing geniuses at the LP could do, clearly it's time to either dramatically improve or find something better.

    Although it seems like we need something better than the LP and obviously the GOP/Dems, I think playing the political party game is exactly where the state, corporate lobbyists, and investors want us to channel our anti-state, small government energy. If we play their game, we lose, because we are up against billion dollar industries and institutions with centuries of established footing. As both parties implode and collapse, the playing ground is slowly becoming more even, but we have a long ways to go.

    If we want to win, we have to rewrite politics and make people see that their is no choice except to love and promote and live by the tenets of liberty, and anything and everything else is an excess waste of time. How exactly this is done is beyond me, although eradication of the msm and grassroots education of youth is a great start. We always seem to find a way when it is necessary to do so. In the meantime, we get to witness the $#@!show.

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Champuckett View Post
    When all is said and done, your average Joe still thinks the LP simply stands for legalizing marijuana and supporting gay marriage.
    That seems to be the mantra they're putting down, and that's coming from not.your.average.joe.

    Well said. I think at this point 'Libertarian' has too many negative connotations with voters. It's been around long enough that the initial voter reaction is to shrug it off because a Libertarian can never win. We need a Grassroots Party, or a name that will get people excited again. The face we need to have is that of a startup breakaway movement comprised of doers fed up with the 'go with the flow' attitude of the metaphorically dead.
    "How many deaths will it take till he knows that too many people have died?" ~ Abandoned Song

  13. #12

    Default

    For all the bad things said about the LP, that do stand for an immediate 20% reduction in federal spending. IMO, this single point puts them heads and shoulder above the two major parties. I'm still mad at Weld and cannot forgive him for campaigning for HRC on the LP dime.

    It may not happen in my lifetime, but someday there will be a party representing fiscal restraint. The LP is the dominant third party in local government. I hope they would be the first third party to have a impact at the federal level. If another third party could break that barrier I would support them as long as they supported fiscal restraint and sane foreign policy. I could hold my nose on most other issues.

  14. #13

    Default

    The crazies have always been a part of party politics. I'm not sure you can get rid of them.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  15. #14

    Default

    We don't get a choice, there are not enough of us and we don't have enough money, unless one or both of those change we are stuck trying to influence whichever party is closest to us and/or is close enough and has a shot at winning, when the GOP implodes we may be able to hijack one of the fragments.

    I do not completely agree with the OP's idea of what the ideal party would look like but we will see what options come our way.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We don't get a choice, there are not enough of us and we don't have enough money, unless one or both of those change we are stuck trying to influence whichever party is closest to us and/or is close enough and has a shot at winning, when the GOP implodes we may be able to hijack one of the fragments.

    I do not completely agree with the OP's idea of what the ideal party would look like but we will see what options come our way.
    A minority party the size of the LP (1%), but better managed, could have significant influence on elections without ever winning one.

    That should be the initial goal. If the GOP implodes and opportunity beckons, great, but good work can be done regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champuckett View Post
    Agreed with the general sentiment by the OP. The party of Johnson, Weld, and Barr is not a lover of liberty, but an opportunistic GOP lite that desperately wants to play with the big boys and seems to sell it's soul each year with these terrible choices. When all is said and done, your average Joe still thinks the LP simply stands for legalizing marijuana and supporting gay marriage. If that is the best the marketing geniuses at the LP could do, clearly it's time to either dramatically improve or find something better.

    Although it seems like we need something better than the LP and obviously the GOP/Dems, I think playing the political party game is exactly where the state, corporate lobbyists, and investors want us to channel our anti-state, small government energy. If we play their game, we lose, because we are up against billion dollar industries and institutions with centuries of established footing. As both parties implode and collapse, the playing ground is slowly becoming more even, but we have a long ways to go.

    If we want to win, we have to rewrite politics and make people see that their is no choice except to love and promote and live by the tenets of liberty, and anything and everything else is an excess waste of time. How exactly this is done is beyond me, although eradication of the msm and grassroots education of youth is a great start. We always seem to find a way when it is necessary to do so. In the meantime, we get to witness the $#@!show.
    As I see it, a minority party like I described above can serve as a base for all kinds of non-political activism. What I'm envisioning is something of a cross between a party, a think-tank, and a PAC. It wouldn't just be about elections. Actually, even when it comes to elections, it might sometimes be better to endorse outside candidates than run our own, as do groups like the NRA, the ACLU, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dean.engelhardt View Post
    For all the bad things said about the LP, that do stand for an immediate 20% reduction in federal spending. IMO, this single point puts them heads and shoulder above the two major parties.
    The LP's problem is their marketing and organization, not so much their platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by not.your.average.joe View Post
    That seems to be the mantra they're putting down, and that's coming from not.your.average.joe.

    Well said. I think at this point 'Libertarian' has too many negative connotations with voters. It's been around long enough that the initial voter reaction is to shrug it off because a Libertarian can never win. We need a Grassroots Party, or a name that will get people excited again. The face we need to have is that of a startup breakaway movement comprised of doers fed up with the 'go with the flow' attitude of the metaphorically dead.
    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    The crazies have always been a part of party politics. I'm not sure you can get rid of them.
    The GOP and Dems manage to keep the crazies tucked away most of the time. There's no reason a libertarian party couldn't.

    The LP made a conscious decision to give the crazies a platform as part of their edgy hipster-doofus marketing campaign.

    -----------------------

    A Few Other Points

    1. This party should be moderate, not in the sense that it compromises its principles, but in the sense that it proposes modest steps in the right direction, rather than demanding everything all at once. For instance, on spending, most of us here would probably like trillions in cuts overnight (I know I would), but a Classical Liberal Party should be looking at something on the order of $100 billion.

    2. The Party should be structured so they it's difficult/impossible for outsiders to hijack it. Not just anyone should be able to become a voting party member for purposes of setting platform, nominating candidates, etc. I'm not sure what can be done within the bounds of federal election law though, so that's something to look into further.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-16-2017 at 03:02 PM.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    In an election that could have been ground shaking we got Gary. No. Just no.
    To be fair, they could have nominated the guy that paid prostitutes to poop on his face.

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    To be fair, they could have nominated the guy that paid prostitutes to poop on his face.
    In a crazy one-upmanship campaign year you go super crazy! I think he could have gotten 10%. But, let's be honest. There really wasn't a viable L.P. candidate and the convention was a $#@! show.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  19. #18

    Default

    Starting over creates its own problem set. Like building voter networks. I still think LP and CP should merge, or at least cooperate in some organized fashion. If Ron Paul had been on either party's ballot both would have supported him. That there is proof of concept that the differences are not too great.
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "People who place their trust in government don't like competition from charities." - Origanalist

  20. #19

    Default

    How do you start a political party which promotes freedom that excludes certain people and cultures?

    Secondarily, how do you start a political party which promotes freedom that excludes certain people and cultures, then claims to not care about "the culture war"?
    Last edited by dannno; 11-16-2017 at 05:45 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #20

    Default Two non sequiturs in as many sentences, ...bravo

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    How do you start a political party which promotes freedom that excludes certain people and cultures?
    There's nothing antithetical to libertarianism in choosing not to associate with certain people.

    Secondarily, how do you start a political party which promotes freedom that excludes certain people and cultures, then claims to not care about "the culture war"?
    The goal of the proposed party would be to focus on issues that matter, contra culture-war issues.

    Hence, the party would not try to appeal to (and/or would actively exclude) people obsessed with the culture war.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    There's nothing antithetical to libertarianism in choosing not to associate with certain people.



    The goal of the proposed party would be to focus on issues that matter, contra culture-war issues.

    Hence, the party would not try to appeal to (and/or would actively exclude) people obsessed with the culture war.
    You did everything EXCEPT answer my questions.

    I did NOT ask IF you can start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals.

    I asked HOW do you start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals.

    SECONDARILY.

    If you reject "the culture war", HOW do you start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You did everything EXCEPT answer my questions.
    Your first question implies that there's a contradiction between advocating for freedom and not wanting to associate with certain groups.

    ...as I explained, there isn't.

    Your second question implies that there's a contradiction between wanting to get beyond the culture war and dissociating from culture warriors.

    ...as I explained, there isn't.

    I did NOT ask IF you can start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals.

    I asked HOW do you start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals.
    You want the mechanics of how I'd start a party?

    Like, (Step #1) pick a name and draw up a platform, (Step #2) advertise a meeting....?

    SECONDARILY.

    If you reject "the culture war", HOW do you start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals?
    Again, if I didn't already answer your question, I don't know what you're asking.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  24. #23

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Your first question implies that there's a contradiction between advocating for freedom and not wanting to associate with certain groups.

    ...as I explained, there isn't.
    That is not what my question implied. The first question was with regards to "how", aka in practice, how would you create a national political party that excludes certain cultures and individuals from participating..

    Your second question implies that there's a contradiction between wanting to get beyond the culture war while simultaneously dissociating from culture warriors.

    ...as I explained, there isn't.
    Incorrect again.. my second question implied there is a contradiction between wanting to get beyond the culture war whilst simultaneously dissociating from certain cultures..


    You want the mechanics of how I'd start a party?

    Like, (Step #1) pick a name and draw up a platform, (Step #2) advertise a meeting....?



    Again, if I didn't already answer your question, I don't know what you're asking.
    #3 Excluding people in a national political party, how do you do it?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That is not what my question implied. The first question was with regards to "how", aka in practice, how would you create a national political party that excludes certain cultures and individuals from participating..
    If your point is that a party which doesn't try to appeal to everyone will be smaller than a party that does, I agree.

    And?

    Incorrect again.. my second question implied there is a contradiction between wanting to get beyond the culture war whilst simultaneously dissociating from certain cultures..
    I'm talking about dissociating from culture warriors.

    If you want to call those groups "cultures," alright.

    And?

    #3 Excluding people in a national political party, how do you do it?
    Say the Classical Liberal Party is having a meeting.

    Fat naked hippy comes in yelling about pot.

    Then lunatic Evangelical comes in yelling about demon rum.

    How do we handle this?

    We simply tell them to piss off.

    ...what's the mystery?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  27. #26

    Default

    Does there need to be a Party? I'm all for the old school teaching the new school, sharing contacts, donors, tips, whatever - there doesn't need to be a formal party.

    If anything, I advocate libertarians overwhelm the current two parties from within. Keep face when needs be, and overwhelm them seat by seat. That's the only model. That's how the Trotskyists and Soviets took over the parties, and that's the only model we need to work on.

    If I enter politics someday, it'd be as a Dem, but I'd work a scheme out with others for taking enough House seats in my state, and eventually the US Congress. I'd be happy to reach across party lines and "sacrifice" with fellow crypto-libertarians.
    They fought the Wars
    They lost.
    They turned friends
    into enemies.
    Who became
    friends of our enemies.
    They stood alone, in splendid isolation,
    And said it was their only choice.

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Does there need to be a Party? I'd work a scheme out with others for taking enough House seats in my state, and eventually the US Congress. I'd be happy to reach across party lines and "sacrifice" with fellow crypto-libertarians.
    Oh so adopt evil to beat evil then? We need political revolution and it won't be possible until both parties are gone so people stop seeing things as red or blue. We need to move beyond partisan politics, Rand Paul 2020

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Does there need to be a Party? I'm all for the old school teaching the new school, sharing contacts, donors, tips, whatever - there doesn't need to be a formal party.

    If anything, I advocate libertarians overwhelm the current two parties from within. Keep face when needs be, and overwhelm them seat by seat. That's the only model. That's how the Trotskyists and Soviets took over the parties, and that's the only model we need to work on.

    If I enter politics someday, it'd be as a Dem, but I'd work a scheme out with others for taking enough House seats in my state, and eventually the US Congress. I'd be happy to reach across party lines and "sacrifice" with fellow crypto-libertarians.
    A formal and informal party can coexist.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Oh so adopt evil to beat evil then? We need political revolution and it won't be possible until both parties are gone so people stop seeing things as red or blue. We need to move beyond partisan politics, Rand Paul 2020
    What evil? Sorry you misread my post.

    And you really did.
    They fought the Wars
    They lost.
    They turned friends
    into enemies.
    Who became
    friends of our enemies.
    They stood alone, in splendid isolation,
    And said it was their only choice.

  31. #30

    Default

    What we need is someone to figure out how to make those damn sunglasses from They Live.
    There is only one kind of freedom and that's individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator
    and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it. -Ron Paul

    RAND 20/20

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