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Thread: War on ISIS - Whose Side Are We Really On?

  1. #1

    Default War on ISIS - Whose Side Are We Really On?

    War on ISIS - Whose Side Are We Really On?

    Over the weekend the very mainstream BBC published a blockbuster investigative report showing that the US was part of negotiations that allowed thousands of ISIS fighters and their families -- and tons of weapons -- to escape Raqqa in Syria. At the same time Secretary of State James Mattis said the US cannot leave Syria until ISIS is defeated. What's going on here?




    A thread discussing this, as well as the original BBC Report, is also in the U.S. Political News subforum: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Deal-With-ISIS



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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post




    A thread discussing this, as well as the original BBC Report, is also in the U.S. Political News subforum: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Deal-With-ISIS

    Oh come on now... does any of this $#@! REALLY surprise anyone?

    The only thing that would surprise me would be to find that it wasn't happening.

    Honestly, I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. Someone exposes that which anyone with so much as a single viable brain cell already knows is going on. There is no real value added and the reason I say so is because the ONLY purpose this sort of thing serves is to tickle the average man's morbid curiosity. After all, when men commit atrocious crimes, decent men hunt them and kill them. It is THAT which keeps the rest of the wankers from getting any cute ideas.

    But we don't hunt and kill them... or at least lock them in cages for the rest of their lives at hard labor on a diet of bread and water. Nosir. We sit on our asses, bitch, ask why nothing is being done, and then move on to the next sound-bite.

    Watching $#@! like this is a complete waste of time. When people start acting like Freemen, rather than as Weakmen who have donned Freemen's clothing but continue to act as whiny FfAaGgSs, then I will watch these sorts of things. Until then... feh.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Oh come on now... does any of this $#@! REALLY surprise anyone?

    The only thing that would surprise me would be to find that it wasn't happening.

    Honestly, I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. Someone exposes that which anyone with so much as a single viable brain cell already knows is going on. There is no real value added and the reason I say so is because the ONLY purpose this sort of thing serves is to tickle the average man's morbid curiosity. After all, when men commit atrocious crimes, decent men hunt them and kill them. It is THAT which keeps the rest of the wankers from getting any cute ideas.

    But we don't hunt and kill them... or at least lock them in cages for the rest of their lives at hard labor on a diet of bread and water. Nosir. We sit on our asses, bitch, ask why nothing is being done, and then move on to the next sound-bite.

    Watching $#@! like this is a complete waste of time. When people start acting like Freemen, rather than as Weakmen who have donned Freemen's clothing but continue to act as whiny FfAaGgSs, then I will watch these sorts of things. Until then... feh.
    I'm sorry Osan I have to disagree with you. So many of us see constant bits of evidence showing our military/cia are supporting al qaeda in Syria; on most occasions, a lot of what we see is not carried by the establishment [read: government] media. As a result, I'm constantly challenged by friends and family to "show the proof"; and when i show them, they will say (whether it's from Zerohedge, RonPaulInstitute, Antiwar.com, LewRockwell, and even Buchanan (whose a paleoconservative)) that my news sources are biased and untrue. The same has happened with the occasions where the U.S. military continually has "accidents" and helps ISIS or "accidents" and kills Syrian soldiers (in the case of Deir Ezzor i think over 100 Syrian soldiers were killed by the U.S. inside the city at the same time ISIS was beginning a large offensive outside the city against the Syrian soldiers inside Deir Ezzor; the day before this massacre of Syrian soldiers occurred by the U.S., the U.S. had drones surveilling the Syrian soldiers all day long. The Syrian soldiers didn't complain because they thought it was surveillance from a friendly source. So the U.S. knew very well that those inside the city were Syrian soldiers. And yet they massacred them and allowed the offensive by ISIS against that city). Unfortunately establishment media only covered this story as a "mistake"... an "accident" by the U.S. military. Just as they have said all other similar incidents have been "accidents".

    In any case, here we have an event that has been covered by the establishment media to show our relatives and friends that continually deny that our military are supporting these jihadist groups. There's no "possible accident" here that our friends and relatives can point to to say we are incorrect or misguided. Even the U.S. military agreed that they did this.

    So, yes, I think this is an important even to get out there. Ron Paul apparently also believes it's an important event that needed to be discussed since he made the video on it.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post
    I'm sorry Osan I have to disagree with you. So many of us see constant bits of evidence showing our military/cia are supporting al qaeda in Syria; on most occasions, a lot of what we see is not carried by the establishment [read: government] media. As a result, I'm constantly challenged by friends and family to "show the proof"; and when i show them, they will say (whether it's from Zerohedge, RonPaulInstitute, Antiwar.com, LewRockwell, and even Buchanan (whose a paleoconservative)) that my news sources are biased and untrue. The same has happened with the occasions where the U.S. military continually has "accidents" and helps ISIS or "accidents" and kills Syrian soldiers (in the case of Deir Ezzor i think over 100 Syrian soldiers were killed by the U.S. inside the city at the same time ISIS was beginning a large offensive outside the city against the Syrian soldiers inside Deir Ezzor; the day before this massacre of Syrian soldiers occurred by the U.S., the U.S. had drones surveilling the Syrian soldiers all day long. The Syrian soldiers didn't complain because they thought it was surveillance from a friendly source. So the U.S. knew very well that those inside the city were Syrian soldiers. And yet they massacred them and allowed the offensive by ISIS against that city). Unfortunately establishment media only covered this story as a "mistake"... an "accident" by the U.S. military. Just as they have said all other similar incidents have been "accidents".

    In any case, here we have an event that has been covered by the establishment media to show our relatives and friends that continually deny that our military are supporting these jihadist groups. There's no "possible accident" here that our friends and relatives can point to to say we are incorrect or misguided. Even the U.S. military agreed that they did this.

    So, yes, I think this is an important even to get out there. Ron Paul apparently also believes it's an important event that needed to be discussed since he made the video on it.
    It is only important if we do something meaningful with the information.

    We don't.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Oh come on now... does any of this $#@! REALLY surprise anyone?

    The only thing that would surprise me would be to find that it wasn't happening.

    Honestly, I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. Someone exposes that which anyone with so much as a single viable brain cell already knows is going on. There is no real value added and the reason I say so is because the ONLY purpose this sort of thing serves is to tickle the average man's morbid curiosity. After all, when men commit atrocious crimes, decent men hunt them and kill them. It is THAT which keeps the rest of the wankers from getting any cute ideas.

    But we don't hunt and kill them... or at least lock them in cages for the rest of their lives at hard labor on a diet of bread and water. Nosir. We sit on our asses, bitch, ask why nothing is being done, and then move on to the next sound-bite.

    Watching $#@! like this is a complete waste of time. When people start acting like Freemen, rather than as Weakmen who have donned Freemen's clothing but continue to act as whiny FfAaGgSs, then I will watch these sorts of things. Until then... feh.
    But crying and whining about other people not doing the actions you wish they would, while you also don't do those actions is so much more productive.


    Last edited by AZJoe; 11-17-2017 at 03:30 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Oh come on now... does any of this $#@! REALLY surprise anyone?

    The only thing that would surprise me would be to find that it wasn't happening.

    Honestly, I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. Someone exposes that which anyone with so much as a single viable brain cell already knows is going on.

    My entire family, all the way down to second and third cousins, on both sides of the family, are not aware that the U.S. military has regularly supported both ISIS and al qaeda. The "news" they watch does not tell them this. They are not stupid; they are uninformed.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    After all, when men commit atrocious crimes, decent men hunt them and kill them. It is THAT which keeps the rest of the wankers from getting any cute ideas.
    Who are the men who commit atrocious crimes? Politicians will always be paid off by special interests. Let's take an example: Save the Children just came out with a report saying 130 children die every day in Yemen and 50,000 children have died in 2017 as a result of the U.S. backed war on Yemen. The U.S. military are in a command center in Riyadh right now sitting next to Saudis and together they are perpetrating this genocide. The U.S. military are performing in-air fueling for the Saudis as they endlessly bomb this impoverished country. The U.S. military does the maintenance for the planes doing this bombing. The U.S. military trains and equips the Saudi soldiers who are committing this genocide. Without the U.S. military, this genocide would not be happening.

    How about the U.S. military actually growing a damned backbone and saying 'No' to this bull$#@! and having real courage by taking time in the brig rather than participating in this genocide? How about others in the U.S. military protesting and refusing orders until those participating in the Yemen genocide stop participating in this genocide? But then that would take real courage: something that those in our military don't have a clue about.

    Even on this forum the actual perpetrators of these heinous crimes are always given a pass: Here's the excuses: "They are young at 18 and don't understand what they are doing." "They are only following orders." I say bull$#@!! If you are 18 years old you are old enough to do your homework before getting involved in a job that murders people for a living. You should have the personal responsibility to make sure when you "volunteer" for this job that you are on the right side of history.

    The people who are actually physically committing these crimes are on the front lines in the U.S. military and CIA. Yet no one, not even on this forum, will denigrate these people, let alone "hunt them and kill them" as you posted. Why? If we on this forum cannot even agree who the perpetrators of these crimes are, how can anything ever be done? Graham and McCain are certainly no more responsible for the genocide in Yemen than members of the U.S. military who are actively participating in that genocide!

    I'm not involved in the Judge Moore thread. I agree women who are 17 or 18 years old are not children and should be responsible for their choices. Scanning the thread, most guys here agree. So why the constant excuses for men who are 17 or 18 years old that choose to murder for a living? Why the constant "but they are young and don't understand" bull$#@!? Why the constant excuses and deference for those who are actually perpetrating these heinous crimes? Why the double standard?

    Guys during Vietnam were drafted. They didn't choose a career where they could do their homework beforehand to understand what their chosen occupation entailed. Today's "volunteers" are an entirely different situation. They are choosing to become part of this terrorist organization known as the U.S. military. And for that, I should "thank" them, or "honor" them, or "support" them? As far as I'm concerned the only uniform these people should be wearing is a damned straight jacket because they're a bunch of damned psychopaths!

    But there are a good many people on this forum who will disagree with me. And if we can't even agree on who are committing these atrocious crimes, and who needs to be castigated rather than honored, we will never solve the problem. If people started castigating [or at least not "honoring"] those who "volunteer", younger people will see this and they will stop volunteering. Younger people are volunteering because this society endlessly honors and thanks the "volunteers". And so it goes on and on and on.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    But we don't hunt and kill them... or at least lock them in cages for the rest of their lives at hard labor on a diet of bread and water. Nosir. We sit on our asses, bitch, ask why nothing is being done, and then move on to the next sound-bite.
    The U.S. military is one big fat lie. Getting the message out about their parts in these heinous crimes by talking with those in our lives can help stop other younger kids from joining up. That's where the attention needs to be focused because we'll never get a majority of politicians to oppose these wars. Emphasis needs to be placed on stopping the recruitment.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    When the U.S. Military start acting like Freemen, rather than as Weakmen who have donned Freemen's clothing but continue to act as whiny FfAaGgSs, then I will watch these sorts of things. Until then... feh.
    Fixed that for ya.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    It is only important if we do something meaningful with the information. We don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    I disagree. Screaming this information at the top of our lungs to everyone we know can help. Because most people don't follow foreign policy, and most people are completely oblivious to what the U.S. military does overseas. Heck, even McCain and Graham didn't even know our military was in Niger! Yet this forum knew years ago that our military was in 90% of Africa's countries: I remember posting Nick Turse's article here years ago showing all the U.S. bases in Africa. But if even our Senators don't know what our military is doing, how do you expect the average American to know?

    We are never going to get a majority of politicians who are against the wars. We just aren’t. They are paid off prostitutes for the special interests. And if the people they represent in their districts are unaware of what our military does overseas and do not voice opposition, nothing will change on Capitol Hill. It just won’t.

    Protesting does not help. Unless it’s huge, our media will not even cover it or, alternatively, they will denigrate it. Even pipeline protesters (which is one of the very few areas young people are even involved in protesting these days) are getting hammered: Members of congress are currently involved in writing a bill that would charge protesters that protest pipelines with terrorism. (They have for years already charged animal rights activists with terrorism.) This is despite the fact that the Keystone pipeline just spilled 210,000 gallons of oil in South Dakota and there has been over 200 significant leaks in these pipelines since the year 2000. And I guarantee that most republicans will support these terrorism charges against protesters rather than the usual disorderly conduct charges protesters usually are charged with. So not only does protesting not work, congress wants protesters to be charged with felony terrorism!

    So getting a majority of noninterventionists in congress will not happen; protesting does not help especially since congress are creating laws to charge protesters with terrorism; resorting to your solution of "decent men hunt them and kill them" will not occur since most in this country are pro-military no matter what they do... as far as i'm concerned the only real solution is to scream what we know at the top of our lungs and to stop "honoring" and "thanking" those who are on the front lines perpetrating these crimes so that young people will think twice before becoming one of them.
    Last edited by charrob; 11-17-2017 at 01:45 PM.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    But crying and whining about other people not doing the actions you wish they would, while you also don't do those actions is so much more productive.


    You presume too much. All I'm doing is stating what is happening... or in this case not happening.

    I'm not wishing for anything. If people want to live in servitude, screw 'em. I don't care if they burn to ash.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post

    We are never going to get a majority of politicians who are against the wars. We just aren’t.
    If that is true, then what is the point of all the rest of your post?

    That one line seems to deeply confirm everything I wrote. If we cannot get rid of Themme, then there is no point in any of this.

    So which is it? Is there hope, or is there none?
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    You presume too much. All I'm doing is stating what is happening... or in this case not happening.

    I'm not wishing for anything. If people want to live in servitude, screw 'em. I don't care if they burn to ash.
    Well then what's the point of Osan's whining and bitching about Dr. Paul and Daniel McAdams making videos, speaking out, and exposing truth. What irresponsible nonsense. The reason Dr. Paul and Daniel McAdams and others are speaking out and exposing truth are because they don't want to live in servitude. He who cannot or will not speak the truth lives in servitude.

    Osan's argument that those who are aware should remain silent, not expose the lies, not contradict the false narratives - that is embracing and supporting "servitude".

    Osan's call for violent jihad is equally self defeating. It is exactly the wrong thing to do, especially when more and more people are becoming aware. Osan's argument that Dr. Paul and others must not make videos speaking speaking the truth, unless they go on Osan's violent jihad to "hunt and kill" the perpetrators - the politicians, bureaucrats, military, the ignorant and statist Americans - that is the recipe to guarantee greater servitude, greater government. Something which Osan himself is not doing, thankfully. Osan's violent jihad would serve only to validate the deep state lies and actions in the minds of the masses and solidify and expand the deep state-police state-military industrial-neocon complex.

    No. Dr Paul, Daniel McAdams and everyone else should go on making videos, exposing lies, speaking truth, educating, awaking, enabling.

    A slave is he who cannot speak the truth. Speak the truth even if your voice shakes and and your feet tremble.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Well then what's the point of Osan's whining and bitching about Dr. Paul and Daniel McAdams making videos, speaking out, and exposing truth. What irresponsible nonsense. The reason Dr. Paul and Daniel McAdams and others are speaking out and exposing truth are because they don't want to live in servitude. He who cannot or will not speak the truth lives in servitude.
    I don't whine. Ever. That's YOUR misread of my tone, so let us be clear on that point.

    My point, which you seem to have missed, is that they are preaching to people who DO nothing substantive. About 15 years back, BBC did a 4 part documentary titled "The Power of Nightmares". It was very well done and exposed some pretty serious material. This puzzled me, because instruments of Theire agenda don't usually divulge such matters for public consumption - they certainly didn't in the USA back at that time. I asked my friend in London why would they do it, to which is responded to the effect that nobody cared. They could expose what should be dangerous truths because half the UK is blitzed out on Prozac. You could detonate a small nuke in their underpants and they'd barely be able to get up a "meh".

    It's not that much different here anymore. The vast majority are now so trained to love their chains, I am not sure I see the point in making all the noises.

    If we turn our eyes back only to the turn of the twentieth century, we see a considerable litany of crimes brazenly committed against the people of America. Prohibition, drug wars, draft servitude, more false flag wars than any of us care to consider, establishment of the taxtyrant, and so on down a depressingly long list. How many times have Americans stood tall against the Man in defiance of his tyrannical fiat? Twice, maybe? Whoopdee doo. The Warren Commission documents have been released and there is some pretty bad stuff in there. What do people do? Nothing. OK, it was long ago, but so what? We find out the truth about Tonkin, Northwoods, Pigs, and so on. What do we do? Nothing. We are attacked by "terrorists" and fed a line of $#@! so lame, not even an idiot would buy it. What do we do? Nothing. I could go on for a hundred pages with examples, but perhaps the point is made.

    If you think I am so wrong, and I am open to persuasion, then why don't YOU tell ME what should be happening. What is it going to take to get people to say "enough!", rifle in hand with the full-on intention of using it if Theye do not get in line. Tell ME that there are enough people of such cloth to actually make something right happen. Can you honestly say there is a reasonable basis for believing this may happen? If you can, then please let me know. But until someone can lay out a fairly precise scenario as to how such a thing would be done, including initial conditions (like, oh I don't know... a nation not populated with a majority of functional idiots?), all this talk is becoming rapidly moot in the same way as was the band playing on the fantail of Titanic as it was heading for tea with Davey Jones.

    Osan's argument that those who are aware should remain silent
    Don't put words into my mouth - it is an uncouth act. I questioned the point of the talking. I did not say they should remain silent in the way you are insinuating.

    not expose the lies, not contradict the false narratives - that is embracing and supporting "servitude".
    Do what you want, as may Dr. Paul and all the others. But as I look about myself forty years later, not a damned thing has changed, save that we have been ever more tightly corralled, the interferences now coming at us from more angles and with more draconian stricture than ever before. Or would you claim otherwise?

    Osan's call for violent jihad is equally self defeating.
    I don't know whether someone pissed in your cornflakes or you have developed some sort of drug dependency, but once again you are putting words into my mouth. You should take some care with that because one day you may make false statements about someone, not myself because I don't give a $#@!, who will find you and drag your carcass into a courtroom and have his lawyers beat you with legal iron bars. Your choice, of course.

    I have done nothing but express my observations. In my opinion, the sorts of men who have made our lives what they now are, understand only one thing: force. The implications of this are clear, but making them so does not mean that I have made even the least hint to incite. I have simply written that we have failed to do what needs doing. You can make your arguments for achieving desired change through "normal" political action, but it will hold no water. Why, you ask? Because at least half of the population are FAIL-ridden scum who will not unite with you, but will in fact unite against you. I suspect the proportion is grossly higher than half, BTW. Even people on "our" side cannot find sufficient common ground such that even tidbits of positive change are realized.

    Years ago I quipped that this was all hopeless. I also clearly stated that one should press on regardless. I stand by it, but have simply reminded everyone that with each passing week the scenario darkens a bit more.

    It is exactly the wrong thing to do, especially when more and more people are becoming aware.
    More are becoming aware? Perhaps. But if so, where is the change? How many is "more"? How many are aware? I hope you realize that awareness is only a necessary condition, but not sufficient for change.

    Note how the "left" has rallied for no other reason than they dislike Donald Trump. I grant they work to Theire end, but still, they move even if stupidly and even meagerly. Theye trample roughshod over us as we who claim to love liberty get next to nothing accomplished... or have I been missing some great renaissance of liberty across this great land?

    Unless I've been completely asleep, and do let me know if it is the case, we have been going in the wrong direction for at least 100 years - certainly during the sixty that I have been around.

    As for the rest of your post, you continue the bad habit of making false assertions about me. There is a wide difference between asking what is the point and telling people to be silent, the latter of which I have done not once. But you have made valid points as well, so perhaps I may amend my view on this to some marginal value. But my questions stand. Answer if you think you are able.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    My point, is that they are preaching to people who DO nothing substantive.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. ... There is no real value ... Watching $#@! like this is a complete waste of time :
    [Whining about posting/making videos/having discussions]
    Well if you aren't doing anything that you believe is "substantive", then instead do what it is that you believe is "substantive. The person whose actions you have actual control over is that person staring back at you in the mirror. There is nothing substantively productive about Whining over Dr. Paul making videos that expose truth, or people posting or discussing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I did not say they should remain silent in the way you are insinuating
    Except to post a hissy fit over Dr. Paul making videos and Charrob posting it: "I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. ... There is no real value ... Watching $#@! like this is a complete waste of time "
    That protest implies people should not make videos, expose lies and speak the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    hunt them and kill them ... But we don't hunt and kill them... We sit on our asses ... What is it going to take to get people to say "enough!", rifle in hand with the full-on intention of using it
    That sounds like a call to violent jihad. Call it whatever else, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what it is. Such action plays directly into the hands of the deep state-MIC-police state-neocons.

    All of Osan's observation on the expansion of statism and oppression of people are correct. That, however, is all the more reason to encourage Dr. Paul and others to keep making videos, spreading the message, exposing the truth, instead of attacking such efforts as "a complete waste of time."
    I for one was one of the rubes that once bought into the neocon/neolib MIC American exceptionalism military interventionism line. It was videos of Dr. Paul, discussions, and postings that educated and awakened me. Those videos, postings and discussions continue to help me to stay educated and informed and competent to speak out to others and call out falsehoods and keep people aware.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Well if you aren't doing anything that you believe is "substantive", then instead do what it is that you believe is "substantive. The person whose actions you have actual control over is that person staring back at you in the mirror. There is nothing substantively productive about Whining over Dr. Paul making videos that expose truth, or people posting or discussing them.


    Except to post a hissy fit over Dr. Paul making videos and Charrob posting it: "I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. ... There is no real value ... Watching $#@! like this is a complete waste of time "
    That protest implies people should not make videos, expose lies and speak the truth.



    That sounds like a call to violent jihad. Call it whatever else, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what it is. Such action plays directly into the hands of the deep state-MIC-police state-neocons.

    All of Osan's observation on the expansion of statism and oppression of people are correct. That, however, is all the more reason to encourage Dr. Paul and others to keep making videos, spreading the message, exposing the truth, instead of attacking such efforts as "a complete waste of time."
    I for one was one of the rubes that once bought into the neocon/neolib MIC American exceptionalism military interventionism line. It was videos of Dr. Paul, discussions, and postings that educated and awakened me. Those videos, postings and discussions continue to help me to stay educated and informed and competent to speak out to others and call out falsehoods and keep people aware.
    ^^THIS^^

    There is no spoon.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Well if you aren't doing anything that you believe is "substantive", then instead do what it is that you believe is "substantive. The person whose actions you have actual control over is that person staring back at you in the mirror. There is nothing substantively productive about Whining over Dr. Paul making videos that expose truth, or people posting or discussing them.


    Except to post a hissy fit over Dr. Paul making videos and Charrob posting it: "I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. ... There is no real value ... Watching $#@! like this is a complete waste of time "
    That protest implies people should not make videos, expose lies and speak the truth.



    That sounds like a call to violent jihad. Call it whatever else, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what it is. Such action plays directly into the hands of the deep state-MIC-police state-neocons.

    All of Osan's observation on the expansion of statism and oppression of people are correct. That, however, is all the more reason to encourage Dr. Paul and others to keep making videos, spreading the message, exposing the truth, instead of attacking such efforts as "a complete waste of time."
    I for one was one of the rubes that once bought into the neocon/neolib MIC American exceptionalism military interventionism line. It was videos of Dr. Paul, discussions, and postings that educated and awakened me. Those videos, postings and discussions continue to help me to stay educated and informed and competent to speak out to others and call out falsehoods and keep people aware.
    Hissy fit... jihad... ducks... blah blah. I don't know who pissed in your cornflakes, but it wasn't me. I don't cotton to this sort of disingenuous nonsense.

    We're done here. You win.

    Have a good one.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Oh come on now... does any of this $#@! REALLY surprise anyone? The only thing that would surprise me would be to find that it wasn't happening. Honestly, I don't get this sort of posting/video/discussion. Someone exposes that which anyone with so much as a single viable brain cell already knows is going on.
    How? How does anyone with so much as a single viable brain cell already know this is going on? People work full time and more, they come home, have to make dinner, clean up, do other chores, spend several hours with children on homework, etc. They might have 30 minutes to sit down at the end of the day and listen to “the news” – which doesn’t even discuss foreign policy let alone discuss it in any kind of depth. There’s a handful of alternative sources on the right and left that discuss foreign policy, and the government is doing everything they can to suppress those sites.

    There are journalists on three alternative news sites complaining that now, even when they specifically type the name of their article into google along with their name (since they authored the article) that the google search algorithm does not come up with their article. Apparently google changed their search algorithms and is censoring alternative sites from coming up in searches. One journalist stated that she did see one of her articles come up in a google search, but rather then the article coming up from her site, it came up from an alternate site that happened to post her article. So there is a definite push by google to suppress alternative media. Journalists from the three different sites were discussing this on facebook; one journalist says they’ve lost 60% of their following because google is censoring their site. They were trying different search engines like duckduckgo which had better search results, but they were not sure how to resolve this problem since most people use google.

    Make no mistake, the powers that be insist that the fictionalized reality that they jam down our throats is the only reality we are allowed to see, and they will do _everything_ to censor information from alternative media. Look what they did to RT! There is no “free” press in our country anymore. The first amendment is dead.

    You seem so sure of yourself that everyone with more than 1 braincell has this knowledge, but I am confused how you come to that conclusion? Drudge, Breitbart, GatewayPundit, etc., rarely post what our troops are doing and where they are. Certainly the MSM never talks about it. I don’t listen to radio talk shows, but I’d guess Rush Limbaugh, etc., don’t talk foreign policy either. The average person is not being exposed to news that discusses foreign policy. So how do you expect people to know these things? Yes, if they are interested they’d make it a point to look into it and read about it (and those volunteering for the military have a duty to understand what they are getting into). But most who have busy lives completely unrelated to the U.S. military are simply not going to be exposed to this material. It doesn’t even occur to them that what the U.S. military is doing is unethical and immoral and unchristian. I’d bet more than 95% of Americans do not know that 350 children are dying every day in Yemen and 50,000 died in 2017 alone because of U.S. military participation; and that the U.S. military is aiding in a war against a people that are no threat, and that have never threatened, the U.S.; and that U.S. military participation in this war has drastically increased al qaeda in Yemen. I know for a fact the people in my world don’t know this because the news they watch doesn’t tell them. They don't know that the U.S. Military just let go of 4,000 ISIS members and their families and 10 truckloads of weapons to go wherever their jihadist hearts will take them. They don't know this because the news they watch doesn't tell them this.

    So Osan the all knowledgeable, what news sources do you watch/read?



    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    There is no real value added and the reason I say so is because the ONLY purpose this sort of thing serves is to tickle the average man's morbid curiosity.
    "To tickle the average man's morbid curiousity?" That's what staying informed means to you?

    • We live in a country where information is censored and suppressed by the media as well as both our government and the corporations like google who do our government’s bidding. Although many here are opposed to net neutrality, I worry what will happen to small alternative news sites when net neutrality is gutted and internet providers can actually block content. There's a good possibility that even more information will be censored and blocked. That said, and because of this, it’s important for us to keep each other informed. It’s easy to miss important news items in a busy world and I treasure the fact that this forum and Ron Paul's videos exist so I can catch up on things here when life gets super busy and I didn’t have time to look through news sites for several days. You criticize no action is being done, however, no action will ever be able to be done if people are not, first, informed.

    • Hate me for saying this, but it’s therapeutic. The world around me is living in an alternate reality where either Russia interfered with our elections or the military and cops are God. Take your pick: I don’t want either reality because both are bull$#@!. Sometimes I need comfort to know other people out there care about these issues, and being able to post here and have others chime in, helps me tremendously in staying sane. It gives me the confidence to go out and shout to the world the atrocities our military is committing. To think our country is participating in a genocide against a whole population of people in Yemen where 350 children are dying per day and 50,000 children died this year alone, and all I hear from people around me is that our military is God, or that Russia interfered with our election, is absolutely horrifying! I need a place to sound off about this. Others may feel differently, particularly if you have others in your life who discuss this. But in my world with friends, family, and work, no one is discussing this. It’s like it’s not even happening in their world. How can you criticize others who share this need to commiserate and discuss a genocide against a whole population of people that their own tax monies are helping to pay for when they have no where else to go for this discussion? Sounding off about this is not for naught; as a community who care about these issues, it’s important to keep each other informed and to have a place where we can discuss. And by doing so we not only stay sane, but then can also have the confidence to bring up and discuss these issues with those in our lives, those in our congress, and those on other social media platforms. I always learn from people on this forum and I take what I learn here and share it with others.



    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post
    We are never going to get a majority of politicians who are against the wars. We just aren’t.
    If that is true, then what is the point of all the rest of your post? That one line seems to deeply confirm everything I wrote. If we cannot get rid of Themme, then there is no point in any of this.
    Themme being the politicians? Then you didn't read my post.

    I have no problem with people working to elect non-interventionist politicians. I just think in some ways it’s taking the cart before the horse. If we convince the masses that nonintervention is the better choice, then these masses will naturally vote for non-interventionist politicians. Trying to get non-interventionist politicians elected when the masses are just fine with war, is very difficult – especially in a culture where military and war is God. I think talking to the young people in our life that are in high school and considering careers is important. It needs to be done tactfully, but it needs to be done. Criticizing the military when the military are terrorists needs to happen; they need to be held accountable for the war crimes they are perpetrating: they surely won’t be held accountable by the politicians or the MSM so it’s up to us to bring to light the war crimes they have committed – and that includes when they train and support others to perpetrate these war crimes. Criticizing the military in our culture needs to be okay: they are on the front line perpetrating these atrocities. They need to know not everyone supports what they are doing.



    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    After all, when men commit atrocious crimes, decent men hunt them and kill them. It is THAT which keeps the rest of the wankers from getting any cute ideas. But we don't hunt and kill them... or at least lock them in cages for the rest of their lives at hard labor on a diet of bread and water. Nosir. We sit on our asses, bitch, ask why nothing is being done, and then move on to the next sound-bite.
    No, keeping each other informed is especially important; having a place where we can discuss is especially important. It keeps us up to date and gives us the confidence to go forward and make those calls to our congressmen, share what we've learned here on other social media and with antiwar groups in D.C. who do protest at the Capitol, the White House, the Saudi Embassy, and so forth, and to talk with the people in our lives about what we've learned.

    Other than "hunting and killing" those we politically oppose which will solve nothing and irreparably harm our cause, what other suggestions do you have?
    Last edited by charrob; 11-21-2017 at 10:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post
    How? How does anyone with so much as a single viable brain cell already know this is going on? People work full time and more, they come home, have to make dinner, clean up, do other chores, spend several hours with children on homework, etc. They might have 30 minutes to sit down at the end of the day and listen to “the news” – which doesn’t even discuss foreign policy let alone discuss it in any kind of depth. There’s a handful of alternative sources on the right and left that discuss foreign policy, and the government is doing everything they can to suppress those sites.
    How does any of that absolve them from their responsibility as Freemen? I invite you to come to my home and spend one hour doing what I do every day in terms of physical labor. If you live through it, you will then know that I also work. Then there is the engineering work I do all night long on my designs. I sleep maybe three to five hours per day, and I still try to learn something of what goes on in the world. I probably fail at that last bit shamefully, but I put in the effort. A lot of this is a matter of attitude, so far as I can see.


    There are journalists on three alternative news sites complaining that now, even when they specifically type the name of their article into google along with their name (since they authored the article) that the google search algorithm does not come up with their article.
    I understand the complaint, and I wholly disagree with Google. However, it is private property and if Google wants to suck Theire missile, is it not their right to do so? Given this, is it then not our responsibility to vote with our "feet", so to speak? We are either for freedom, or we are not. If we are, then others are free to do things we dislike, just as we are free to choose other associations. Is this not so?

    I completely agree that Google is $#@!ed. I don't use them much at all. Mostly when I'm being lazy.

    Make no mistake, the powers that be insist that the fictionalized reality that they jam down our throats is the only reality we are allowed to see, and they will do _everything_ to censor information from alternative media. Look what they did to RT! There is no “free” press in our country anymore. The first amendment is dead.
    You will get no argument from me against the bold. The 1A, however dead it may be as per the "government", still represents an inborn right of all Freemen that cannot be killed. Theye may not be respecting it, but the right still exists.

    You seem so sure of yourself that everyone with more than 1 braincell has this knowledge, but I am confused how you come to that conclusion?
    Not quite literally EVERYone - but the vast majority of people have easy access to historical materials. Even the lousiest of them can be parsed between the lines such that valid patterns of truth emerge, however unintendedly by their corrupted authors. This isn't rocket surgery my dear. The patterns are out there for anyone willing to look. Those patterns are of wild corruption by those in power. Do we really believe that any of this is in any way secret? People don't see because they don't want to.

    The possibilities here boil down to but a few. First, the world in which we live is bonered in the beehind in a big way, IN MY OPINION. Perhaps I am the $#@! with stupid notions of human decency, freedom, goodness, and so on. I fully acknowledge the possibility that everything I know is $#@!wards wrong. But if so, it would seem that the same could be said of many tens of millions of other Americans and even some... now get this... EUROPEANS <GASP!!!!!!>

    But if we agree that the world of men is hosed, and that truth is readily available for those seeking it, then why does the human condition accelerate into a New Dark Age? Perhaps I am wrong on that point as well. Perhaps we are rocketing forward into an eon of vast vision and ultimate human propriety, making me King $#@! of the world. If someone can show it to be so, I will wear the crown. But if my notions of what the world might be are not completely deranged and detached from intelligence, then why is the world getting more $#@!ed rather than more unfucked?

    What is at stake here? Our freedoms. Those of our children's children's children, and so on. That of people whom we may presume to love, respect, and regard with great fondness. Is this not important? If it is, then why are people using the excuses you cite for not becoming, at the very least, well informed? Going further, why are they not ready to post the heads of all tyrants on the ends of poles for the sake of everyone's prosperity, freedom, health, and happiness?

    The ideals we at least think we share are supposedly important to us. They are not, however, important enough to live, uphold, and defend beyond what I can only call meager efforts.

    We have tried talking. We have tried demanding. We have tried voting - all to no avail, and I mean NO avail in net terms because today we are less free overall than we were yesterday, the same being true of every single day for the past 100 years and much more. So what is left when Theye do not respond in any desirable way to all the methods that have been tried time and again for two centuries? More of the same? Bear in mind Einstein's old definition of "insanity".

    Drudge, Breitbart, GatewayPundit, etc., rarely post what our troops are doing and where they are
    There are several arguments as to why this may be so, not all of them representative of invalid positions. At any given time, different men will have different views about secrecy in such matters. If humans would choose to stop acting like $#@!s, there would be no need for even well-intended applications of military force. But we don't. We, as a race, are rife $#@!s. On the one hand you have the tyrants of manifold flavors, whether it be filthy communists, loathsome progressive/leftists, simplistic flag-waving righties, jerkoff dark-ages Muslims with their douchebag jihad, and so on down the dreary list of suicide-inspiringly boring jackwagons whose incessant carryings on, as if they had no sense of which to speak, make life ever more dreary for the rest. On the other stand said rest who, no matter how outrageous the incursions of trespass upon them by Themme, sit in idle acceptance, resigned to and perhaps even comforted by their status as slaves to dirt. But I once again digress.

    Given that war is fact, it makes sense that certain sorts of information remain contained. That "we" probably do this with dishonorable design is yet another shame upon us.

    Certainly the MSM never talks about it. I don’t listen to radio talk shows, but I’d guess Rush Limbaugh, etc., don’t talk foreign policy either.
    Some of those hosts seem to. A Limbaugh, of course, is likely to taking the great government missile into his eagerly awaiting mouth, so we can expect nothing of much value there. Guys like Savage might be more inclined to question what is being done and the reasons given for why.

    The average person is not being exposed to news that discusses foreign policy.
    Then is it not incumbent upon him to stop being "average"? We all have choices and the excuses cut no muster, in most cases and so far as my limited eyes can see. I may be wrong about that, too.

    So how do you expect people to know these things?
    I expect adults to behave as such. I expect them to use the intelligence with which they were gifted. But that's just me. Most of the rest of the world seems eager to make excuses and coddle those who choose to act like $#@!-heads. That's the world in which we live where schmucks like me don't count for $#@!. Perhaps it is all for the better.

    Yes, if they are interested they’d make it a point to look into it and read about it (and those volunteering for the military have a duty to understand what they are getting into). But most who have busy lives completely unrelated to the U.S. military are simply not going to be exposed to this material.
    How many people do you think have had busier lives than me? How many have worked over 100 hours per week for months at a clip? Not many. I still managed to stick my nose into things even when exhausted. My wife might work harder than anyone you know (or not), yet she remains informed. In this age of information, short of not knowing how to read and write, or being somehow organically incapacitated, few people can claim the valid excuse of a busy life. I don't buy that one for a single clock cycle on a Cray.

    It doesn’t even occur to them that what the U.S. military is doing is unethical and immoral and unchristian.
    And why is that, mewonders...

    I’d bet more than 95% of Americans do not know that 350 children are dying every day in Yemen and 50,000 died in 2017 alone because of U.S. military participation; and that the U.S. military is aiding in a war against a people that are no threat, and that have never threatened, the U.S.; and that U.S. military participation in this war has drastically increased al qaeda in Yemen. I know for a fact the people in my world don’t know this because the news they watch doesn’t tell them. They don't know that the U.S. Military just let go of 4,000 ISIS members and their families and 10 truckloads of weapons to go wherever their jihadist hearts will take them. They don't know this because the news they watch doesn't tell them this.
    Perhaps all true, but you fail to point out the root reason. It is because they don't give a rat's ass. So long as they have their BMW, their little blow for the nose, and whatever other conveniences, why would they care whether we are murdering 300 children per day? Let us bear in mind that they were not born this functionally stupid and uncaring. They were TAUGHT to be this way. I wonder where they got their training... I wonder... huh...

    How about $#@! schools, offering what may be called good training but shyte education? How about the derelict parents who allow their children to be exposed to the manifold influences that have turned them into such monsters of neglectfulness? Let me tell you something: if my little girl came home from second grade and told me Miss Teacher had taught the class how to put condoms on bananas, my second stop would be jail, right after I went to the school with pliers and pulled every tooth from Miss Teacher's mouth. No, it's not because it is sex-related, but because it has no place in the schools and I do not want those pigs influencing my children in that manner. But being responsible, I would not have my child in such a place to begin with. But I am one of a few, the rest content to let whomever subtly show their kids the gateway to hell. Those same lazy stooge-parents then have the unmitigated gall to wonder how it was possible for their children's lives to turn into such $#@!.

    So Osan the all knowledgeable, what news sources do you watch/read?
    Sarcasm? Really?

    I can't recite any lists. I look all over the place. I get things sent to me by friends of similar disposition.


    "To tickle the average man's morbid curiousity?" That's what staying informed means to you?

    Looking back at what I wrote, I will say I was only partially right, which means partially wrong. It's not the ONLY thing, but in a whole lot of cases it at least seems to me to be just that - gratuitous titillation of the morbid side of the psyche. I cannot imagine how people who seem intelligent are not aware that going on and on about the outrage du jour will change nothing. At least, it hasn't yet in any way I would call significant... but once again I may be wrong on that point and am fully willing to eat crow when someone demonstrates to me that all this churning is causing sea-changes to occur; those that will take us in a better direction, away from the great fields of monstrous icebergs.

    "Net-neutrality" is a bull$#@! marketing terms contrived to hide the real nature of the initiative, which is to see to the realization of precisely that which it purports to prevent. Don't be fooled by it.




    • Hate me for saying this, but it’s therapeutic.
    No no... I can see how it might be. But therapeutic value is insufficient for me. Nothing wrong with wringing $#@! out and feeling better, but that is simply not good enough for me. I like seeing things happen that mean something. I do what I can, but I am nothing more than some fool who believes in liberty and to whom nobody listens. That's the simple truth of it. I'm not going to go get my ass shot for a people who won't even notice, much less give a $#@!. So I curb myself and wait to see what, if anything, worthwhile develops. I inform anyone willing to listen about the truth that I see. I have pointed many people, probably thousands, to essays I've written and with but a few exceptions, I never hear anything back. "Gee that was great" is no better than "Go $#@! yourself" in that at least I know where I stand. But the black hole gives nothing in return, and that seems to be most people's mode. So I have to assume that what I write and say to people makes no difference in this world whatsoever, save in the case of maybe a dozen people. Not a very good return on investment, I suppose, but I didn't write any of it for the sake of approbation. I was hoping, however, it would help people. Again I digress, but it does relate in the sense that I have made fair to middling efforts to help people become aware of what I daresay is a greater truth. So far as I can tell, it has almost all fallen on deaf ears, which can only mean that either I am an insane imbecile or people simply could give a shyte. I may be wrong, but am nonetheless strongly inclined to believe the latter in preference to the former.


    • The world around me is living in an alternate reality where either Russia interfered with our elections or the military and cops are God. Take your pick: I don’t want either reality because both are bull$#@!. Sometimes I need comfort to know other people out there care about these issues, and being able to post here and have others chime in, helps me tremendously in staying sane. It gives me the confidence to go out and shout to the world the atrocities our military is committing. To think our country is participating in a genocide against a whole population of people in Yemen where 350 children are dying per day and 50,000 children died this year alone, and all I hear from people around me is that our military is God, or that Russia interfered with our election, is absolutely horrifying! I need a place to sound off about this. Others may feel differently, particularly if you have others in your life who discuss this. But in my world with friends, family, and work, no one is discussing this. It’s like it’s not even happening in their world. How can you criticize others who share this need to commiserate and discuss a genocide against a whole population of people that their own tax monies are helping to pay for when they have no where else to go for this discussion? Sounding off about this is not for naught; as a community who care about these issues, it’s important to keep each other informed and to have a place where we can discuss. And by doing so we not only stay sane, but then can also have the confidence to bring up and discuss these issues with those in our lives, those in our congress, and those on other social media platforms. I always learn from people on this forum and I take what I learn here and share it with others.

    And why are they living in that reality? I doubt it's because of their busy lives.


    I have no problem with people working to elect non-interventionist politicians.
    Nor I, save that to date all the effort appears to have bought us nothing worthy of note. Have I missed something?

    I just think in some ways it’s taking the cart before the horse. If we convince the masses that nonintervention is the better choice, then these masses will naturally vote for non-interventionist politicians.
    Here you make a very valid point - one I have been making for years, albeit in somewhat different terms. My bit is that we need to get back to the basics, and I mean the BASICS of language, to begin with. Powerful linguistic faculties enables powerful thinking. Teaching the proper attitude of intolerance of those who invade the private territory of Freemen, uninvited and unauthorized is another fundamental jewel in the crown of liberty. It is precisely what I have been saying and writing, that without these basic skills trained to hell into our children, they will have nothing to which to look forward but miserable existences.

    Trying to get non-interventionist politicians elected when the masses are just fine with war, is very difficult – especially in a culture where military and war is God. I think talking to the young people in our life that are in high school and considering careers is important.
    I have done a fair bit of this. No idea whether the effort has made any good difference.

    No, keeping each other informed is especially important; having a place where we can discuss is especially important. It keeps us up to date and gives us the confidence to go forward and make those calls to our congressmen, share what we've learned here on other social media and with antiwar groups in D.C. who do protest at the Capitol, the White House, the Saudi Embassy, and so forth, and to talk with the people in our lives about what we've learned.
    Not when people refuse to listen, which was my point. People here should know after 9 years that I am all for this sort of thing, ALL ELSE EQUAL. My point, which apparently I failed to make clear, is that I questioned the value of this in a land where people simply don't give a $#@!. It is as effective as speaking to them in Greek in terms of seeing people awakening to the truth about their lives, their freedoms, the chasm between the two, and so on.

    World = shyte.

    <talk><talk><talk>

    World = World + delta(shyte).

    <talk><talk><talk>

    World = World + delta(shyte).

    Rinse, repeat.

    What in this pattern leads you to believe that we are doing anything but wasting our time? Do please point me to the change that is fundamental and in the right direction. I will dance naked on the road here, before my neighbors' appalled expressions, shouting and carrying of as if I had 38DDD tits.

    Other than "hunting and killing" those we politically oppose which will solve nothing and irreparably harm our cause, what other suggestions do you have?
    How do you know this to be so? Have we tried it?

    Hell, we don't even put them into cages very often. So long as Theye perceive no significant hazard, what reason would they have for not engaging in the bottomless perfidies which are their stock in trade? Humans are nothing if not nearly perfectly predictable along certain lines. One of those is that they engage in behaviors which are rewarded. In some instances, tolerance stands as full-measure reward for them.

    I believe it cannot be argued against that we get what we reward. Therefore, if we get corruption, it is because we reward it. At the end of the day, onus rest squarely with us. I cannot blame Themme for doing what they do. More profitable would it be for me to blame a snake for biting or a bird for flying. It's what they DO.

    What I can blame, however, is myself and all of the rest of us for having failed to stop rewarding Themme, offering them the rope instead. You and others have claimed that it solves nothing. Well, neither has anything else we have tried, so...
    Last edited by osan; 12-13-2017 at 07:40 PM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



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    US Air Force Running Direct Overt Interference to Protect ISIS

    An F-22 warplane of the US Air Force tried to prevent two Russian Su-25 warplanes from bombing a base of ISIS on the western bank of the Euphrates River on November 23. …

    Decembers 9, Major General Igor Konashenkov Maj. Gen. Konashenkov,
    The F-22 launched decoy flares and used airbrakes while constantly maneuvering [near the Russian Su-25 warplanes], imitating an air fight … most close-midair encounters between Russian and US jets in the area around the Euphrates River have been linked to the attempts of US aircraft to get in the way [of the Russian warplanes] striking against Islamic State terrorists,” …

    Lieutenant Colonel Damien Pickart, a spokesman for the US Air Force Central Command … claimed that the aerospace over the eastern bank of the Euphrates River belongs to the US-led coalition,
    “We saw anywhere from six to eight incidents daily in late November, where Russian or Syrian aircraft crossed into our airspace on the east side of the Euphrates River,” Lt. Col. Pickart told CNN during an interview on Decembers 9. …
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

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    Extensive Wired Report 12/12/17 : ISIS Weapons Supply Chain Traces back to USA
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    How does any of that absolve them from their responsibility as Freemen? I invite you to come to my home and spend one hour doing what I do every day in terms of physical labor. If you live through it, you will then know that I also work. Then there is the engineering work I do all night long on my designs. I sleep maybe three to five hours per day, and I still try to learn something of what goes on in the world. I probably fail at that last bit shamefully, but I put in the effort. A lot of this is a matter of attitude, so far as I can see.
    I guess you are right. I can only go by what i see in my own world: family and friends endlessly hero-izing cops and the military no matter what they do. The latest being Daniel Shaver. My Dad insisting cops are always right. Our niece marrying a cop. And 3 of our nephews joining the military despite there being endless evidence that the U.S. military's actions overseas are not on the right side of history. What is wrong with them? I don't know. I'm sickened and disgusted by it.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Not quite literally EVERYone - but the vast majority of people have easy access to historical materials. Even the lousiest of them can be parsed between the lines such that valid patterns of truth emerge, however unintendedly by their corrupted authors. This isn't rocket surgery my dear. The patterns are out there for anyone willing to look. Those patterns are of wild corruption by those in power. Do we really believe that any of this is in any way secret? People don't see because they don't want to.
    When people i know look at that video of Daniel Shaver being mowed down and side with cops no matter what, i have to agree with you. How do we accept this in our closest relatives? All the family Christmas parties on all sides of the family are coming. Should I stay quiet with the extended family, or voice my opinions and be forever separated from them? Make no mistake, they would absolutely hate me if they knew my views.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    But if we agree that the world of men is hosed, and that truth is readily available for those seeking it, then why does the human condition accelerate into a New Dark Age?
    I don't know. I wish I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Perhaps I am wrong on that point as well. Perhaps we are rocketing forward into an eon of vast vision and ultimate human propriety, making me King $#@! of the world. If someone can show it to be so, I will wear the crown. But if my notions of what the world might be are not completely deranged and detached from intelligence, then why is the world getting more $#@!ed rather than more unfucked?
    You are correct on this; our country is quickly becoming a third world banana republic police state. It's sickening.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    What is at stake here? Our freedoms. Those of our children's children's children, and so on. That of people whom we may presume to love, respect, and regard with great fondness. Is this not important? If it is, then why are people using the excuses you cite for not becoming, at the very least, well informed? Going further, why are they not ready to post the heads of all tyrants on the ends of poles for the sake of everyone's prosperity, freedom, health, and happiness?

    The ideals we at least think we share are supposedly important to us. They are not, however, important enough to live, uphold, and defend beyond what I can only call meager efforts.

    We have tried talking. We have tried demanding. We have tried voting - all to no avail, and I mean NO avail in net terms because today we are less free overall than we were yesterday, the same being true of every single day for the past 100 years and much more. So what is left when Theye do not respond in any desirable way to all the methods that have been tried time and again for two centuries? More of the same? Bear in mind Einstein's old definition of "insanity".
    I agree. The vast majority do seem to be choosing the road to tyranny. That's why I come here to vent -- not only to inform and be informed, but also to commiserate with others of like mind about what seems like a country full of brain-dead automatons with no empathy for the victims that result from our corrupted system, our police state, and our military aggression. That's why I posted the original OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    There are several arguments as to why this may be so, not all of them representative of invalid positions. At any given time, different men will have different views about secrecy in such matters. If humans would choose to stop acting like $#@!s, there would be no need for even well-intended applications of military force. But we don't. We, as a race, are rife $#@!s. On the one hand you have the tyrants of manifold flavors, whether it be filthy communists, loathsome progressive/leftists, simplistic flag-waving righties, jerkoff dark-ages Muslims with their douchebag jihad, and so on down the dreary list of suicide-inspiringly boring jackwagons whose incessant carryings on, as if they had no sense of which to speak, make life ever more dreary for the rest. On the other stand said rest who, no matter how outrageous the incursions of trespass upon them by Themme, sit in idle acceptance, resigned to and perhaps even comforted by their status as slaves to dirt. But I once again digress.

    Given that war is fact, it makes sense that certain sorts of information remain contained. That "we" probably do this with dishonorable design is yet another shame upon us.
    Probably? There is nothing our military is doing for the "security" of the citizens of this country. Nothing. There needs to be no secrecy about anything they are doing overseas because nothing they are doing overseas is for the benefit of this country's citizenry. In fact what they are doing is irreparably harming this country's citizenry by making millions of new enemies as they blow up entire countries and train and arm al qaeda terrorists and foment civil wars everywhere they go.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Then is it not incumbent upon him to stop being "average"? We all have choices and the excuses cut no muster, in most cases and so far as my limited eyes can see. I may be wrong about that, too. I expect adults to behave as such. I expect them to use the intelligence with which they were gifted.
    Yes, it is incumbent upon him. But as said, after seeing the reactions of Daniel Shaver's execution, I have now lost all hope. You are right. These people choose to live in a bubble of their own creation. There is no hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Perhaps all true, but you fail to point out the root reason. It is because they don't give a rat's ass. So long as they have their BMW, their little blow for the nose, and whatever other conveniences, why would they care whether we are murdering 300 children per day? Let us bear in mind that they were not born this functionally stupid and uncaring. They were TAUGHT to be this way. I wonder where they got their training... I wonder... huh...
    It's 350 children per day. Yes I am coming to that conclusion. They don't give a rat's ass.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Looking back at what I wrote, I will say I was only partially right, which means partially wrong. It's not the ONLY thing, but in a whole lot of cases it at least seems to me to be just that - gratuitous titillation of the morbid side of the psyche. I cannot imagine how people who seem intelligent are not aware that going on and on about the outrage du jour will change nothing. At least, it hasn't yet in any way I would call significant... but once again I may be wrong on that point and am fully willing to eat crow when someone demonstrates to me that all this churning is causing sea-changes to occur; those that will take us in a better direction, away from the great fields of monstrous icebergs.
    As stated: my purpose in coming here is to get informed and discuss with people of like mind. My heart aches for what's happening to this country and this is a place i can come for sanity. I know I miss important events sometimes: i guess I'm not as capable as you in that i need sleep and sometimes life's busyness gets the best of me. I just learned before writing this post in a Reason article that the South Carolina jury that tried Walter Scott's murderer ended in mistrial. How did I miss that? It happened last December 2016! This was an important event. Just like this BBC blockbuster: it further proves our military protected ISIS. This is concrete proof. We have a lot of conjecture and belief but when events of concrete proof such as this occur, it's important to make a big fuss so that others like me, who could have otherwise missed that one or two day news item, can see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    And why are they living in that reality? I doubt it's because of their busy lives.
    Again, as mentioned, I am coming to that conclusion too. But at least here we can come to post and discuss and I intend to continue doing so. Because this is an area where we can commiserate and keep each other informed: because, perhaps just perhaps, there may be another person like myself on this site who, God forbid because of their busy lives (or incapabilities or laziness as you would have it), happened to miss the blockbuster BBC report --just as i had missed that a south carolina jury had a mistrial in December 2016 when they tried the badged thug that mowed down Walter Scott.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Extensive Wired Report 12/12/17 : ISIS Weapons Supply Chain Traces back to USA
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AZJoe again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post
    I guess you are right. I can only go by what i see in my own world: family and friends endlessly hero-izing cops and the military no matter what they do. The latest being Daniel Shaver. My Dad insisting cops are always right. Our niece marrying a cop. And 3 of our nephews joining the military despite there being endless evidence that the U.S. military's actions overseas are not on the right side of history. What is wrong with them? I don't know. I'm sickened and disgusted by it.
    Can't blame you for your disgust. It is not easy to bear witness to the willful march of humanity to its own destruction.

    How do we accept this in our closest relatives?
    You just do. You cannot control them. You can do nothing other than clam up or offer your views with no expectations. If you are about freedom, you must allow others to hold points of view you find repellent. You can also disassociate from them.

    Should I stay quiet with the extended family, or voice my opinions and be forever separated from them?
    Depends on what is more important for you - maintaining relationships or speaking your mind. Besides, I would submit that if you offer your opinions in a carefully calculated manner, they might at least see your POV as marginally valid. You must decide what risks you are willing to take and then live with the results.

    As for me, I don't value anyone's company so much that I will stuff my opinions. I don't talk politics with my mom very often because she believes in "authority" beyond the self. When I make my points with her, she sees the truth, but always reverts because that is who she is. My father is 100% opposite and was responsible for my attitude of saying "$#@! you" to everyone presuming the authority to tell me what I may and may not do.

    In terms of friends, I choose those with whom no such frictions will arise. At work... not that I remember what that is like, I keep my yap shut unless someone reveals themselves a fellow traveler. Even then I take precautions not to go too far in expressing my views because the potential problems are not worth having to deal with.

    Make no mistake, they would absolutely hate me if they knew my views.
    Well, I would never presume to tell anyone how to proceed. As for me, I'd move to a place where I'd never have to see them if indeed they would be that hateful of you for having the temerity to show actual respect for others. For me there is no human so valuable that I would tolerate such low-brow treatment. I treasure the people around me and I do it with very carefully considered reason.

    Probably? There is nothing our military is doing for the "security" of the citizens of this country.
    I must disagree, though I will state that they are also working at cross purposes to that very security. That is a matter of politics, though. I know this because my little brother is hip-deep in it. He doesn't tell me much, but the things he does say are very revealing. Speaking in purely positive terms, some of what our military is doing is by all means very necessary to the security of America. There are things going on in the South China Sea that you have almost certainly never heard about. The only reason I know about them is because of my little brother. I trust not only his integrity, but his skills as well. If he tells me that Kim Jon Un is mentally deranged, you can take it to the bank that he is indeed deranged.

    The other side of the coin is that the military obeys the orders of political criminals whose designs are either mindlessly avaricious, deeply malevolent, or both. This gives rise to much of the circumstances that necessitate the "good" things the military provides. Therefore, I cannot place all blame on the military - they are somewhat between a rock and a hard place. The mental landscapes under which we all toil represents thousands of years of the tyrant's work. Just look at the very relatives to whom you refer. They simply cannot readily see what you see because the suppositions that undergird the very fabric of their perceptual realities are invisible to them as such. Rather, those suppositions represent absolute, immutable reality to the degree that those people cannot even identify them such that they could question them. This is a vast barrier to change, requiring extraordinary skill in order that there would be even a marginal chance that they would catch a hint that they might be on an incorrect path of belief. All I can further say is that Socratic method has proven my only vehicle to even limited success in such endeavors. You ask the questions they are incapable of asking themselves for no other reason than they cannot see the least potential for such challenges of their mental status quo. The rest is up to them and is beyond your control.


    But at least here we can come to post and discuss and I intend to continue doing so. Because this is an area where we can commiserate and keep each other informed: because, perhaps just perhaps, there may be another person like myself on this site who, God forbid because of their busy lives (or incapabilities or laziness as you would have it), happened to miss the blockbuster BBC report --just as i had missed that a south carolina jury had a mistrial in December 2016 when they tried the badged thug that mowed down Walter Scott.
    You make a valid point. I just get fed up with nothing happening, save the same old trudge downward into the pit. Talk is important, but it is not sufficient.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "So I guess we're going to have "heck week" from now on"
    -Master Chief, SEAL V, bitching about PC being foisted on the teams, as related by my little brother, some years back.



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    CIA Bought Powerful Missile, Delivered to ISIS

    A guided anti-tank missile ended up in the hands of ISIS terrorists less than two months after the US government purchased it in late 2015 …

    Though the report says the missile was purchased by the US Army using a contractor, BuzzFeed News has learned that the real customer appears to have been the CIA. …

    The missile is one piece of a critical puzzle that is being solved only now … How did the vast terror group arm its war machine? CAR spent three years tracking ISIS weapons as they were recovered by Iraqi, Syrian, and Kurdish forces — and found that what happened to the missile was no aberration. Indeed, the terror group managed to divert “substantial quantities of anti-armour ammunition” from weapons provided to Syrian opposition forces by the US or Saudi Arabia.

    As BuzzFeed News has reported, the US equips proxy armies in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan with weapons such as AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades made in Russia and Eastern Europe … “Evidence collected by CAR indicates that the United States has repeatedly diverted EU-manufactured weapons and ammunition to opposition forces in the Syrian conflict,” … ISIS, it continues, “rapidly gained custody of significant quantities of this materiel.”

    The report lists 12 cases where Eastern European weapons originally sent to the US military or US contractors appear to have been diverted, somehow, to ISIS. …

    In 2014, the CIA issued a contract to obtain 600 such missiles to Kiesler Police Supply … Kiesler is a small Indiana company that frequently contracts with the CIA … the contract for the missile that ended up in the possession of ISIS was handled by Kiesler.

    The Indiana firm acquired those missiles from a Bulgarian company called SAGE Consulting, …

    The company also insisted it was not to blame for where the weapons ended up. “Once Kiesler delivers its products to the customer, it does not have visibility with respect to the Government’s handling, use or disposition of the material,” it said. …
    SAGE has indeed been manufacturing the 9M111 missile, at a factory called VMZ, for the US government. “They make them only for the Americans,” one said, adding that the US buys as many as SAGE can manufacture. …

    in 2015 that the CIA had begun to set up and train small tank-killing units of rebels…

    the missile was originally purchased in Bulgaria by the US on Dec. 15, 2015. Just 59 days later, it was recovered in Ramadi, Iraq, after it had been fired by ISIS in combat. …
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

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    In an extremely reckless provocation, US F-22 jets fire "warning flares" and simulate fire-fight attack on Russian jets escorting a humanitarian aid convoy in Syria.

    US defense officials are reporting that on Wednesday, a pair of F-22 stealth fighters “intercepted” Russian planes in far eastern Syria, near the last ISIS-held villages …

    and involved the US planes firing warning flares at the Russians, forcing the Russians to retreat out of what US officials described as “coalition airspace.” … the US coalition was never invited to be in Syria in the first place …

    the [Russian] planes were Su-25 jets, and that they were escorting a humanitarian aid convoy. … the US fighters carried out mid-air maneuvers designed to simulate a fire-fight with the Russian Su-25s …

    This comes just days after a report that a F-22 had nearly shot down a Su-35 over the Euphrates River in the same area, which the Su-35 was protecting bombers engaged in anti-ISIS runs.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  25. #24

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    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  26. #25

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    Would it be horrible if I smile when Russia very rightfully knocks some punk out of the sky?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom






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